SOS - noob claying questions

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yan_750i

New member
dear pros,



so today for the first time in my life i decided to give claying a try. the car: 2003 porsche - always garaged. the tools: sonus green ultra fine clay and sonus glyde spray lubricant.



step one: give the car through wash, dry and move the car into the garage. make the pancake, spray it and the car surface and go to work.



here are the questions:



1) is there such thing as too much spray lubricant? since this is my first time, i figured i'd rather overspray it than underspray it -- right? i think i usually spray about 3-4 pumps onto a 1'x1' area.



2) i can definitely see the dirt catching on the clay bar and paint looking cleaner, but when i run the bag test over the cleaned area, it feels like a sandpaper. why is it? how do i fix it? more aggressive clay bar? less lubricant?



3) after finishing claying a body panel, i simply wipe off the spray lubricant with a clean MF towel. is this good enough considering i plan to put klasse AIO over the car or should i still give the car a wash after claying?



thanks.





P.S. - i bought this oxo wash brush for my soft top and it seems to produce more lint than it does remove dirt. is this a "break-in" issue with these brushes?
 
You can't use too much lube during the clay process. Some like to do another wash after clay and that's a good way especially if your going straight to LSP. Too much lube is better than not enough - the latter resulting in surface marring if your a bit careless.



Sometimes I will clay an area 2-3 times if it still feels "gritty". I've never used the Sonus clay so unfortunately don't know how it performs but it might be on the mild side. That's fine, just do the area again until you're happy.
 
'
Puckman said:
You can\'t use too much lube during the clay process. Some like to do another wash after clay and that\'s a good way especially if your going straight to LSP. Too much lube is better than not enough - the latter resulting in surface marring if your a bit careless.\r\n\r\nSometimes I will clay an area 2-3 times if it still feels \"gritty\". I\'ve never used the Sonus clay so unfortunately don\'t know how it performs but it might be on the mild side. That\'s fine, just do the area again until you\'re happy.
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\r\n\r\nsonus clay is suppose to be ultra fine, or in other words, for beginners like me:\r\nAuto Detail Clay Bar - Sonus SFX Ultra-Fine Detailing Clay\r\n\r\ncould it be i am not applying enough pressure? just how gentle should i be with a clay bar?\r\n\r\nis it possible that bag test will always feel like a sandpaper on a 5 year old car no matter what you do?'
 
hmm.. should the "bag test" be smooth eventually or will a 5 year old car feel like sandpaper no matter what you do?
 
I am by no means an expert at claying cars but I will note that I clayed my 1993 Saab for the first time last year. I used an OTC kit with extremely mild clay. The results were nothing short of amazing. Even with an inexpensive kit and inexperienced user, the paint felt like butter after claying and polishing. I used DG products for finishing and was amazed at how long the buttery feel lasted with occasional washing and AW. After daily winter (albeit mild - DC) driving for 6-8 months, it is due for another clay/polish. Just because paint is old doesn't mean you have to lower your expectations!!
 
yan_750i said:
...sonus clay is suppose to be ultra fine, or in other words, for beginners like me...
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The point to ultra-fine clay is that it’s intended to be used often, for regular maintenance, where you normally wouldn’t have heavy buildup of crud. Since your car has years of heavy buildup you’ll need more applications, more aggressive technique or more aggressive clay.





yan_750i said:
... ...could it be i am not applying enough pressure? just how gentle should i be with a clay bar? ...
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As long as the clay is warmed up and pliable you almost can’t press too hard. It will goosh out from under your hand. Most noobs don’t clay aggressively enough. Use lots of lube and go to town.





yan_750i said:
...is it possible that bag test will always feel like a sandpaper on a 5 year old car no matter what you do?'
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Maybe not always, but certainly on every five year old car I’ve ever touched. It'll take some work, but you can make it smooth as silk.





PC.
 
The idea is to have the clay glide across the surface and don't put alot of pressure on it.The more lube the better in this case for added protection for the paint.Hope this helps.
 
GP guy said:
The idea is to have the clay glide across the surface and don't put alot of pressure on it....
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It’s supposed to glide over the surface after the contaminants are gone. Once they’re gone it will glide on the paint even if you’re pressing really hard (assuming you have enough lube).



Until they’re gone the clay is supposed to be cutting them off. You need to press hard enough to feel some resistance as you move back and forth. If you aren’t feeling any resistance you’re not removing contaminants.



I’m not saying you should be bending the panel but you don’t need to be delicate with it.





PC.
 
Newbie here, with some claying questions..



1. How much clay (grams) you consume to clay the car? Do you use whole bar (80-100 g) or just a part of it?



2. What if after claying the clay looks fairly clean, can it be reused or it should be thrown away? If it can be reused, how long can I keep slightly contaminated clay?



3. Should I necessarily use special clay lube? Can I use car shampoo/water solution in a bottle with spray cap?



Thanks in advance ;)
 
1) I separate in two or three pieces each 100gr bar

2) Each piece I use it for 3-5 cars (that are not too bad)

3) I use shampoo water as lube. If your clay starts to dismantle just change the shampoo. Not all shampoos are compatible with all clays. (I use 1z raindance Shampoo)
 
Everyone here is saying to use plenty of pressure and go to town, but I am honestly scared to try clay again. After using the mother's claybar kit and a ridiculous amount of lube....I mean alot. It was pulling off tons of stuff, but it was also marring the paint terribly. I lubed it like crazy, clean brand new piece of clay, warmed up and flat and on the first pass back and forth, I could pull off the clay and wipe with micro fiber and see front to back marring that didn't exist only seconds earlier.



Is it normal that there will always be marring with clay? Did I just get a bum piece of clay...or bum lube? I want to work on my GF's brand new car, I know it will need a little clay as it was on the lot for probably 6 plus months and I know they don't care for their cars, but I'm scared of claying it and turning it into giant set of scratches.



If you guys aren't getting any marring, I'll probably get brave and go for it again.



Thanks
 
darkfluid, keep in mind that if you have intentions of removing some really stubborn contamination with clay, you will eventually induce swirls from moderate to heavy claying pressure. This also applies to the aggressive clays out there in which you plan on correcting paint afterwards.



I typically don't clay or spot clay unless I'm doing a full detail or exterior detail on a car.
 
yan_750i said:
hmm.. should the "bag test" be smooth eventually or will a 5 year old car feel like sandpaper no matter what you do?
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Just a point of reference. I clayed a car that had never been clayed before, and had not been waxed in 10 years. (It was garage kept, so the paint was in good condition).



The car, 1994 Lexus LS 400.



I went to walmart, and picked up the Mothers clay kit (maybe it was Meguires).



Anyhow, it came with a MF, Quick Detailer spray, and the Clay bar(s). Both white, like mini bars of soap, and the same. I combined the bars for a larger surface.



I spent alot longer than everyone else spends on claying.. and I used half a bottle of QD spray :)



I clayed the car for 4 hours straight. I would spend say an hour on the hood alone. Nonetheless,.. the clay was 'gray' through and through when I finished. The finish on the car was SMOOTH. Rubbing the back of your hand/finger against it was like it had just been waxed, yet there was nothing on it obviously.



Don't get me wrong here -- It doesn't take near this long to do a proper job, I was just over-thorough.



But, maybe your clay is too fine? Maybe you didn't work it long enough in the area.



When claying you need to work until the bar is gliding without any grit bumps, etc.. You can feel when the surface is 'right'. If in doubt, wipe it and feel with your hand.. Little to no pressure is required to do this.



I would actually recommend to go to Walmart and pick up the Mothers or Meguiers clay kit -- Its like 20$ or so, and I *know* that clay is agressive enough for build up, yet gentle enough not to hurt anything.
 
I have a gray clay bar that I haven't yet used for fear of marring, but I've had great luck with the blue clay magic bar and the green pinnacle ultra poly clay (which I guess I like the sonus green). No marring and good results.
 
darkfluid said:
Everyone here is saying to use plenty of pressure and go to town, but I am honestly scared to try clay again. After using the mother's claybar kit and a ridiculous amount of lube....I mean alot. It was pulling off tons of stuff, but it was also marring the paint terribly. I lubed it like crazy, clean brand new piece of clay, warmed up and flat and on the first pass back and forth, I could pull off the clay and wipe with micro fiber and see front to back marring that didn't exist only seconds earlier.



Is it normal that there will always be marring with clay? Did I just get a bum piece of clay...or bum lube? I want to work on my GF's brand new car, I know it will need a little clay as it was on the lot for probably 6 plus months and I know they don't care for their cars, but I'm scared of claying it and turning it into giant set of scratches.



If you guys aren't getting any marring, I'll probably get brave and go for it again.



Thanks
Click to expand...



Interesting -- Do you have a machine polisher? PC/UDM -- ?



If so, go for it, and then just polish afterwards.



If not, maybe you should just lighten up your technique and spend more time on the sections -- less chance for marring, and the time will eventually work it out.



Or,.. get a lighter clay and keep the agression.



The level of marring you are describing sounds a bit odd to me,.. Pictures?
 
Hope I'm not thread jacking here. Thanks for the advice, I don't have any machine for swirl correction. I haven't been brave enough yet. I've been trying to get help from others on the swirls to date and focus on protection myself. I do some correction by hand, but as we know that's going to be limited. I'm going to get a PC one day and it probably won't be an issue for me.



I have no pictures right now unfortunately, the last car I clay barred went with my gf and I've been scared of it since. (I know I'll never get full results without it). Basically I would run the clay bar back and forth a couple of times, I can hear the scraping/crumbling sound of contaminants and when I lift the clay I see all the nasties that it lifted. This is using very light pressure. I can immediately see in the clear coat four or five sizable scratches in the clear coat in the two inch path the clay just traveled. If it helps I was using the mother's gold kit.



Being that this sounds strange to a couple of you guys I'll give it a try again with a new clay bar. If it is true that some scratching is expected, I guess I'll just have to correct as much of that as I can by hand until I can get PC and learn to use it at the junk yard. I'll probably have to settle for whatever clay is for sale locally, I've already got my other products and I don't want to wait before getting her car sealed.



Thanks for the help.
 
darkfluid said:
Everyone here is saying to use plenty of pressure and go to town, but I am honestly scared to try clay again. After using the mother's claybar kit and a ridiculous amount of lube....I mean alot. It was pulling off tons of stuff, but it was also marring the paint terribly. .. front to back marring that didn't exist only seconds earlier.



If you guys aren't getting any marring, I'll probably get brave and go for it again.
Click to expand...



I'm surprised you got marring with the Mother's and plenty of lube :think:



I'm guessing that the contamination got stuck to the clay and thus turned it into a kind of sandpaper. Sometimes when I clay I'll knead/replace the clay after *every* short swipe across the paint. Yeah, that's a huge PIA and in those cases I'd much rather use a decontamination systems like ABC.



Generally speaking (yeah, that's kinda a disclaimer but I mean not too contaminated, not really soft paint) you should be able to use the milder clays (e.g., the Mother's) without marring, at least IME.



You definitely shouldn't get marring with clays like the Sonus green Ultra-fine, at least not unless the clay is cold/hard or the paint is very soft.



FWIW, (regulars here have heard this before) I've been spot-claying at every wash since detailing clay came out in the early '90s and I can just about count on one hand the number of times I've had marring (and those were with aggressive clay).



Oh, and I suggest you buy some 1Z Paint Polish (sources: Welcome to Exceldetail.com! or Aloha & Welcome to Our Oasis for All Your Auto Detailing, Auto Detailing Supplies, Auto Detailing Equipment, Auto Detailing Products, & Auto Detailing Accessories for all your Automobile Detailing ) and at least give it a quick polish by hand. It might not remove all the marring, but it'll sure make things better.



Oh, and#2 you don't need to practice on junk panels with the PC/etc. I know scads of people with zero experience/coaching/etc. who did perfectly fine with such machines right from the start. People who are as cautious about this sort of thing as I suspect you are just don't have problems with the random orbital type of polishers.
 
Wow,.. That type of marring from Mothers gold kit. -- I can't comment on it because I've only used Meguiers, but I can't see it being that much different.



Accumulator is dead on I would think. Sounds like some particles, larger than normal got trapped (maybe just one ) -- on the clay and you were basically rubbing a rock across the paint.



If that were the case,.. it would seem that if you kneeded the clay well,.. then wiped the area down with a MF, and lubed again -- It should not repeat itself.



Did you wash the car before claying? --I'm sure you did, and you probably already said it, but I'm not reading the beginning of the thread right now hehe..



I would recommend getting another clay system,.. go ahead and grab a Meguiers clay kit if you can find it at your local Walmart of autozone -- It worked well for me, and I can attest to it.. and it is easily found OTC locally. (So no shipping etc).



So you can swap out the lube and the clay .. rule out any variables.



Then I would wash the car again..



Dry with Microfiber..



and Buff dry (after dry) buff with a clean MF.



Now do a section of about 2x2 or smaller with lots and lots of lube, spray it well.. and go gentle. After the first couple of strokes pull the clay up and inspect it for any particles.. Also put a Halogen light on the paint (before you start) and after you clayed the small area -- Check fo rmarring from the clay.



It is possible there is a contaminant IN the paint, spread throughout that will cause this across a majority of the car. (Very unlikely though).



Also, good tips on the Zaino.. For a hand job ;) -- Seriously, for hand work it will serve you well. You will be pleased.



I also wouldn't shy away from filler based products until you get your machine.
 
Ok, just got back from working on the car. I bought the Mcguires kit with the white clay. I noticed two things, number one this clay seems milder. It wasn't removing all of the contaminants (plastic bag test never came back perfect), but there was great improvement. Plus it seems like the marring just wasn't there anymore. I was folding the clay, same as before only when it looked visually dirty. It marred in a couple of places, probably a large piece of grit or something, but overall, this was much better.



I might have not warmed the mothers clay enough first. Or maybe it was just that clay in general. Also I wonder if I'm not getting the car clean enough. I washed using the Meg's car wash you get at Walmart or whatever and I mix it a little richer than they recommend. I use a Lowes grout sponge then follow with a microfiber mitt for the things it misses. I use a cheaper grout sponge along the bottom and on the wheel wells. The clay got brown in a lot of places with only a few swipes and my AIO applicator always comes back filthy. I've seen AIO applicators on here be filthy, I've only seen a few clay pictures. One thing is for sure I know the stuff is cleaning!!



One note, I'd forgotten how much work it is just to do the car with AIO by hand. I think I need to buy a PC.



Thanks guys
 
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