Somewhat confused on Carnuba.

C

Changeling

New member
My intention is to prep the surface of my BLACK Tacoma as well as possible! I now have the tools and advise to get that done if I do what I have been told!



The finish after preparation will be Klasse AIO and then 2 to 3 coats of SG.

However I like the looks of Carnuba better than the synthetic look. David B. says the answer is after the AIO and SG treatment to coat with a Carnuba for that deep soft look I like.



This approach sounds like what I want, but, now I have questions I never even thought of before.

I have purchased S100 which is supposed to be the same as ps21. I believe this is supposed to be a pure carnuba (Top Rated). Now I read of detailers using Colinate (a carnuba/blend) for better durability, I think it is 845, but don't know for sure.

Since the Klasse AIO/SG is going to give me the durability is there any reason to question the brand/type of Carnuba?

Keep in mind the color is BLACK! Does the Colinate compliment this color better than the depth and softness that pure Carnuba offers, better than the S100, when used as an overcoat on the Klasse AIO/SG?

I hope I expressed my question properly, if not just ask for clarification on any detail.

Changeling
 
First of all, let me just say that the looks achieved from various carnauba waxes that are out there differ subtely and it really does come down to personal preference which is your favourite carnuaba - for me, my fav is colour dependant as well...



No wax on the market is 100% carnauba - you'd never get that out of the jar, it would be rock solid... They are all blends of carnuaba in differing concentrations, and solvents to make the wax easy to apply. When you apply the wax, these solvents evaporate away leaving you with the wax. Some waxes contain a blend of various waxes including carnauba and some contain a blend of polymers and waxes. Some waxes contain glazing oils to wet the finish for a deeper and wetter look.



There are two "types" of carnauba that you can find in the waxes most talked about here on Autopia - Yellow and White. Yellow carnuaba is the waxes more natural colour, and white carnauba is carnauba that has been purified another step. White is rarer and generally more expensive than yellow. Some waxes contain only yellow, some only white and some a blend of both. White is sometimes sought after for its purity, as the risk with some heavy yellow carnaubas is that multiple layers can cause a slighty opacity which is sometimes referred to as "yellowing" - this is actually a particularly difficult topic, the yellowing of waxes and there remains debate as to whether it actually does happen or not...



Back on topic: P21S (or S100) is actually a blend, and contains both carnauba wax and beeswax. It gives, to my eyes at least, a sparkly finish that is well suited to metallics as it really allows the flake to ping through. It also gives a nice deep finish, but I have seen deeper from other waxes. Durability is not the strong suit of P21, and in the Scottish climate I have seen three weeks, maybe four absolute tops from it. But if durability isn't a consideration, then the P21S is a really nice wax that is easy to use and works well... The carnauba in it is yellow.



Collinite 476S would, however, be my preferred choice of the two for looks on black as, to my eyes, it delivers a deeper finish than the P21S. This is a carnuaba wax, containing yellow carnauba. Durability of the wax is well known, but what is often forgotten is that the 476S also gives a mighty fine finish also.



However, if durability isn't an issue, I would throw into the mix a different wax for black: Poorboys Nattys Blue. A carnuaba wax with added oils for a deep wet look shine, its easy to use and gives a really lovely deep wet look to dark colours so is a wax well worth considering, and it is also excellent value for money.



Hope that helps.



PS - my favourite wax on dark colours is actually Pinnacle Souveran, which is white carnauba and also contains glaze oils like the Nattys Blue. Awsome looks on dark colours, but poor durability and quite expensive... If money and durability is not a consideration - go for the Souveran, you wont regret it. But if you want to save a little cash, the Nattys Blue comes very close to the Souveran on looks.
 
Like Dave said, you'll achieve different looks from different carnauba waxes. Each manf. makes it differently, all giving off their own unique yet subtle appearence. I personally use Collinite 845 for it's durability. As for looks, there are other waxes out there that give more depth/pop in the paint. Since you already have some base coats of aio/sg you should give s1000 a try. That should liven it up a bit. Natt's Blue is the only other carnauba wax I have and it gives off an incredibly wet look. On Black the results are even better.



My best advice for you is to browse through the click and brags and see what others have used and the results they achieved.
 
I'll echo Dave KG's opinion that the P21S/S100 gives a bright, "sparkly" finish. After years of hearing people rave about it, I finally gave it a try on my (gray metallic, almost-silver) Jag and the look was so lacking in depth and whatever else I'm used to seeing on that car that I was sorely disappointed and went back to Souveran. Eye of the beholder and all that...



Besides Souveran, Meguiar's #26 is a good one for black- gives a deep, rich look, probably lasts about as long as P21S/S100, and is commonly available.



But none of these waxes last anywhere *near* as long as Collinite, and, even with the KSG on there for long term protection, I'm not a big fan of short-lived waxes on daily drivers.
 
Changling, if you want to try some Collinite 845 and 476 shoot me a PM with your address and I'll make you an offer you can't refuse :chuckle:
 
Accumulator said:
I'll echo Dave KG's opinion that the P21S/S100 gives a bright, "sparkly" finish. After years of hearing people rave about it, I finally gave it a try on my (gray metallic, almost-silver) Jag and the look was so lacking in depth and whatever else I'm used to seeing on that car that I was sorely disappointed and went back to Souveran. Eye of the beholder and all that...



Besides Souveran, Meguiar's #26 is a good one for black- gives a deep, rich look, probably lasts about as long as P21S/S100, and is commonly available.



But none of these waxes last anywhere *near* as long as Collinite, and, even with the KSG on there for long term protection, I'm not a big fan of short-lived waxes on daily drivers.
Click to expand...



It appears that you and Dave KG like the Colinate and several other wax's very well and that is a very good testament to how effective it is! I liked what Dave KG said so much (I didn't know!) I printed his answer and will include it in my detailing log.

However there is some between the lines talk here that can't be overlooked about the Souveran wax. Both you guys (who I respect) both seem to like the Soveran above all else. It also seems to be especially effective on BLACK vehicles.

However no one seems to think the durability seems so great, but no body offered any information on just what durability could be expected.

Durability is a significant factor in my endeavor, but the "WET LOOK" is what I am going for . I spent a lot of time with a crappy look, now I want the best there fore I am going with the Soveran wax. I remember the remark (It's Expensive) but what the heck I have already spent a considerable amount of money and after all it's only money:cry: .

My only concern now is wether there are any incompatibility's between Soveran and the Klasse SG. At least I think that is my only concern (comments).

Thanks to all, the pictures were awesome!

Changeling
 
Changeling said:
However no one seems to think the durability seems so great, but no body offered any information on just what durability could be expected.
Click to expand...



Expectation is the key word here! I don't know if you can use Souveran and durable in the same sentence. Are we focusing on a daily driver or garage queen? How often is re-waxing acceptable?
 
I was using Souveran on my car throughout the end summer months, ontop of Clearkote Vanilla Moose Wax Hand Glaze base... I was topping up the wax on a fortnightly basis and after each two weeks the water was still sheeting nicely and beading well and the "squeak test" confirmed protection was still there. However, a Scottish summer is not very testing on a wax: the weather is cool (not hot, and heat can kill carnaubas quite quickly), and generally dry, at least on the East coast where I live. Also, the car was washed every second day and I used Last Touch as a drying lube which I think was helping the durability of the wax as previously I was pushing it to get two weeks from Souveran whereas throughout the summer I was safely getting two weeks.



Without doubt, for look on black, Souveran is my choice. There is only one LSP which I have preferred the looks of on black, and that is the Zymol HD Cleanse and Zymol Destiny pair, but we are talking silly money there - the Souveran comes mighty mighty close on looks at a fraction of the price, which is why I rate it so highly.



The Klasse SG will provide a good durable base for the Souveran wax, and if you can re-apply the Souveran every couple of weeks then this would be the wax I would go for... the jar will still last you a couple of years anyway applying at this rate. If you are looking for more duability than this however, then I would look to another wax: something like Nattys Blue (around four weeks), or Collinite (three to four months).
 
Dave, these are excellent points. I'm not sure where this young fella lives, but let's find out if waxing every two weeks is going to work for him.
 
Dave KG said:
I was using Souveran on my car throughout the end summer months, ontop of Clearkote Vanilla Moose Wax Hand Glaze base... I was topping up the wax on a fortnightly basis and after each two weeks the water was still sheeting nicely and beading well and the "squeak test" confirmed protection was still there. However, a Scottish summer is not very testing on a wax: the weather is cool (not hot, and heat can kill carnaubas quite quickly), and generally dry, at least on the East coast where I live. Also, the car was washed every second day and I used Last Touch as a drying lube which I think was helping the durability of the wax as previously I was pushing it to get two weeks from Souveran whereas throughout the summer I was safely getting two weeks.



Without doubt, for look on black, Souveran is my choice. There is only one LSP which I have preferred the looks of on black, and that is the Zymol HD Cleanse and Zymol Destiny pair, but we are talking silly money there - the Souveran comes mighty mighty close on looks at a fraction of the price, which is why I rate it so highly.



The Klasse SG will provide a good durable base for the Souveran wax, and if you can re-apply the Souveran every couple of weeks then this would be the wax I would go for... the jar will still last you a couple of years anyway applying at this rate. If you are looking for more duability than this however, then I would look to another wax: something like Nattys Blue (around four weeks), or Collinite (three to four months).
Click to expand...





Two weeks! That is a lot less than I would have expected. I think after hearing this I am going to pass on the Souveran! Especially at $80.00 for 8 ounces! When you guys said expensive I had no idea it was in a "Realm" all it's own. This is just plain show car wax to be put on something that literally will not be driven!!



I think I need to go back to my original question, with new information, being:



With the Klasse twins as a base, what is going to provide the depth of a Carnuba better on a BLACK paint finish. S100/Colinate 476/Colinate 875/ what ?

I don't mind waxing every 4 to 8 weeks, but every 2 weeks to me is being married to

something that just isn't going to allow me to have a life. I can't handle that (I'm single)!!



I got rid of that kind of control and never will have it in my life again. I guess what you guys are trying to tell me is that I can't have it all !!

What I am asking is how close can I come with what's out there?

Changeling



PS.The Colinate waxs are also confusing, why the different numbers, etc,. Can't they decide what is best and just supply it?
 
Coming very very close to Souveran on looks is a wax I tried very recently: Chemical Guys 50/50. Very nice wet and deep finish from this wax and durability is very good... Again though, this is not a cheap wax but (in the UK at least), its a good bit cheaper than Souveran. Well worth a look IMHO.



You can also come close to Souvern using Poorboys Nattys Blue, and expect four or five weeks durability out of that depending on conditions... For looks, that would actually be my next choice.



Out of the Collinites, my choice for black would be either 915 or 476: both are excellent, durability is fantastic for a wax and ox per $$, they are quite similar in price.
 
Having owned the various Collinite products, I am not a big fan except for their trademark Insulator Wax (1% carnauba content).



Change, you might want to consider a 10oz tin of the famous, durable Blitz Wax from the One Grand folks. Very nice stuff, I suspect it's the most durable carbauba product I've used. It's quite good. Or, consider the #26 mentioned above. That may be the most solid recommendation in this thread.
 
I dont know if this'll help, but here's a few black cars I've done recently with differing products... The LSPs were always applied on a fully prepped surface (by rotary machine polisher):



Zymol HD Cleanse followed by Zymol Destiny



















and on a different 911:

















Meguiars #7 Show Car Glaze followed by Meguiars #26 Yellow Wax













Meguiars #3 Machine Glaze followed by Meguiars #26 Yellow Wax













Meguiars #7 Show Car Glaze followed by Chemical Guys 50/50





















The three above combos have given a lovely wet finish and good durability, and on a properly prepped surface the differences in the finish from differing waxes are only quite small, and its only inthe flesh that you can really tell and the difference is still very small... the key really is in the prep. But I hope that gives an ideaof the looks of three combos I have recently used, there are many others I have used also but these three are recent.
 
YUM !



pc911aftermq9.jpg
 
Changeling said:
Two weeks! That is a lot less than I would have expected. I think after hearing this I am going to pass on the Souveran! ..

PS.The Colinate waxs are also confusing, why the different numbers, etc,. Can't they decide what is best and just supply it?
Click to expand...



The Collinite waxes aren't all *that* confusing, and the ones to consider pretty much boil down to 476S (paste) and 845 Insulator (liquid). Yeah, that's somewhat oversimplified but let's leave it at that for this thread guys ;)



I'd get a can of the 476S. Simple as that. The beading will astound you and it'll last a long, long time. The chances of it not providing a satisfactory appearance (compared to something else worth considering) are pretty slim IMO.



The Meg's #26 would probably be my OTC choice. I'd decide between those two.



Dave KG- Nice to see somebody still uses the Meg's #3 :D
 
Dave, that Chemical Guys 50/50 car did a major number on my mind. That is just plain awesome!!

Accumulator, the 476s is a paste I take it, with the best protection of all "wax's" that also compliments Black.



Conclusion: Thank God a vehicle has two sides, if not I would probably have a mental hernia from trying to decide! So, one side gets the 50/50 and the other the 476s paste.



As you said earlier, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" so I will just use both and the "beholding" eye, can make it's own judgment, LOL!

By the way I realize that the pictures one views on the Internet can't do justice to a vehicle and on the other hand can hide a whole lot. But those last pictures Dave put up are absolutely awesome from where I am sitting.



Thanks to all for the great information. It's really great to be associated with a bunch of guys who are willing to help the uninformed/ignorant on the details of doing it right!

Changeling
 
Honestly Changling, I wouldn't worry too much over this. I was just so thrilled with the outcome from the polishing with my new PC a few months ago that I really could care what wax I use. The car looks so good now that even when it's fairly dirty it still looks good, and better than 75% of what's on the road. I probably could have used the cheapest thing at Walmart and still be happy with the shine. Honestly, I think the only people that can tell much difference between waxes are those on here that detail on a regular basis for other people and have used many different products. Just start out with a good solid economical wax and go from there.
 
If anyone can supply a best price source for the Chemical Guys 50/50 I would really appreciate it, haven't started looking yet as you guys usually have the answer to everything!



I intend to do as I said above and plan to do my part to make it the best it can be.

However, there is the situation of different strokes for different folks! I think I am doing a logical thing in my mind with the help of some of the best/experienced minds in the field, so I am not worried at this point at all! After all it all comes down to "Prep"!

If I can't get that done right, than I don't deserve the finish I want!

Changeling
 
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