Something that irks the crap out of me... charging more for black cars!

[CosminTX]

I guess it's a Chicago thing as noone seems to understand what I'm trying to say.

they charge extra for wash and wax package for black cars , and is unfair.



if polish / correction included than it may take extra time , but the "logo" shouldn`t be upfront like that without explain the customer what is he charge for.

Cosmin

 

[JCastro1085]

I guess it's a Chicago thing as noone seems to understand what I'm trying to say.

No some people are getting the point you're trying to make, others are not so open minded when it comes to black cars, they see it and automatically think this will take more time (which equals more $ to them) and thats not necessarily true, I'm done trying to explain it as I believe I have been as clear as a I can be. Ivan I don't think its a Chicago thing, I know we live in a city where everyone is always trying to get over on you, but am sure this could happen anywhere.

 

[Accumulator]

LUSTR- Maybe you could turn this to your advantage, saying something like:



While some detailing shops charge extra for black vehicles, we charge the same price regardless of color. Our policy is to give all our customers a great job at a fair price.

 

[WAS]

Its like pulling up to a gas station car wash (I know we don't go there but stick with me) the basic wash is $5, the mid-level is $10, and the premium is $15 (standard price right?) then you have a black car pull in and wants the premium for $15 and the guy at the both says "the premium will be $20 because its a black and it takes more to clean it"



Use that analogy of "cleaning it" in reference to detailing it. I can't be any more clear, on how crystal clear am being (quote from Transformers) but that's the kind of stuff we see here at shops and it pi$$es me off, seriously!

I guess it's a Chicago thing as noone seems to understand what I'm trying to say.

I understand perfectly what you're both trying to say. But JCastro: your analogy doesn't work in this situation. Washing a vehicle (especially if it's an automated wash) is the exact same process and time spent, regardless of the color of the vehicle. Polishing is not. The non-Autopian customer has this in mind: I want to see paintwork that isn't heavily swirled or marked up. A few swirls are OK, few scratches are OK, but I want it looking nicer than before. It takes less time to make silver paintwork look like that, than black paintwork. Especially if you're using fillers and glazes and such. Even more so if you're one-stepping it, or polishing without claying first.



I guess what I'm getting down to is, if you're going to cut corners, it's easier to cut corners on a non-black vehicle than a black one.



Now I'm not advocating cutting corners, or ripping anyone off, certainly not. But if the customer is only willing to pay so much, and you only have so much time, then you're forced into things like one-stepping and "cutting corners". It's not a bad thing to do, it's not a wrong thing to do, as long as the customer understands what they're getting for what they're paying. I understand there are Autopians out there who wouldn't do this type of thing (some of them may feel they need to maintain a "99.995% perfect job everytime"), but for those of us that cater to this market-segment, that is why some shops charge more for black paint correction.

 

[Deep Gloss Auto Salon]

If a customer comes to you and says "just make it look better" = in that situation yes, a silver color will take less effort than a black color to make look "better"



If a customer comes to you and says "I want it perfect" - assuming clear coat hardness and defects are comparable, silver and black will take the same amount of time.



I would argue that a silver vehicle takes (dare I say) longer to perfect than a black vehicle. Why do I say this, because black paint work you see the defects staring you in the face. With silver you have to tape a metal halide to your nuggets and do an Autopian Defect Dance just to see the same level of defects

 

[Accumulator]

I would argue that a silver vehicle takes (dare I say) longer to perfect than a black vehicle. Why do I say this, because black paint work you see the defects staring you in the face. With silver you have to tape a metal halide to your nuggets and do an Autopian Defect Dance just to see the same level of defects

I agree :xyxthumbs

 

[Scottwax]

Scottwax you wrote "Working black paint to the same visual perfection as lighter colors takes longer, therefore it should cost more. Where an 85% correction will look outstanding on silvers and pearls to most people, it takes 95% correction to make black look equally swirl free."





The problem I find with that statement is this: a black car will show any imperfection (we all agree on that on) so the detailer must correct even the slightest scratch/halogram/swirl/marring/etc...but this particular color shows the level & quality of the detailer himself. Personally I would never hire/allow a detailer to go near my car (even if it was my good friend Barry Theal) who had the mentality of "well its a silver car so I only need to do 85% worth of work to make it look good"......or....."since its black and I have to work harder I will charge him more" to me that is lazy.



Now Scottwax I will say this, maybe your statement was a reference to reality and what it does take to make a silver car look great compared to a black car and not necessarily laziness. My point is this, no matter what color vehicle...a true Detailer should alway put in 100% effort, that is what makes him a Professional. Charging more for having a black car and not getting off easy like you do a white/silver car sounds like a rip-off, why charge more...???...because you can't be lazy and get away with only 85% worth of work instead of a 100%???



(Scott that question was not directed to you personally, I was just using your numbers as example & I mean no disrespect to you because I do enjoy your write ups, but we have a difference of opinions here and thats all, nothing personal)

The point is you have to go with what the customer is willing to pay for. What would be acceptable correction on a silver car at a certain price might not be acceptable for a black car. People don't look at paint they way we do and for the most part will only pay for what looks good to them. In many cases that might be 1 or 2 steps on silver or other lighter colors but take 3 steps to achieve on black. It has nothing to do with shortchanging anyone but to provide them with the most bang for their buck.



I would agree if that you are doing a simple, 1 polishing step basic detail, the color shouldn't matter since the customer shouldn't be expecting any serious correction.

 

[IC3DT3]

...you have to tape a metal halide to your nuggets and do an Autopian Defect Dance ...

Ok, some one seriously needs to teach me this. In all my time searching this forum, I have yet to see this thread. Even if it doesn't make my work better, the customers should get a kick out of it.

 

[Scottwax]

If a customer comes to you and says "I want it perfect" - assuming clear coat hardness and defects are comparable, silver and black will take the same amount of time.

You still have to go by what a customer considers perfect if they have a certain price point in mind. In a perfect world with everyone having the same eye for detailing, you are absolutely correct. However, in the non-detailing world, what looks perfect to a customer on silver might not look so perfect on black. Plus, in general, I have noticed that people who own non-black cars are considerably less demanding (and willing to shell out $$$) when it comes to how their paint looks in the sun.

 

[imported_DJ Mayo]

Another reason I charge hourly, 12 hours on a black car pays the same as 12 hours on a white car.

 

[imported_Ivan Rajic]

Ah man this got out of hand quickly. Everyone is throwing in an opinion haha. I guess it's good for the discussion, but I think people for the most part missed my point.



Here's the scenario:



I drive down the street, and see a sign that says:





"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""



1-step Polish & Wax... get that showroom shine going we do it all, blah blah blah



All the stuff included:

thorough wash

wheel cleaning

tire dressing

glass cleaning

1-step machine polish/wax to (insert verb/phrase here, usually something like "remove scratches, restore showroom shine", etc.)

high quality wax



*Cars $80, SUVs $100

*Black vehicles extra



"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""



I go in with my yellow M3, and get a badly done 1-step for $80.



I go in with my black M3 (dreaming I have a daily driver M3 also) and I pay $100





They don't charge more for black because they will do an extra polishing step.



Hope this clears everything up. If not I guess I'm typing in another language unknowingly haha





To relate it to my business, which is at the highest, most anal Autopian level as I could possibly get it, as some of you already know and are familiar with my work... if a client comes for a Pre-Detail Inspection (what I do before scheduling any detailing work in order to get a good feel for the paint, like measuring it and doing a few test spots, etc.) and asks what I think, I will always say that I recommend at least a Light Polish Detail (which is 1-step polish, all the rest included obviously). I always recommend that to the client as a minimum because, as we all know, a 1-step polish detail (for me it's usually M205/white, as it gives the best correction without leaving any marring, hazing, etc. a more aggressive polish would) will take out a lot of the horrible looking shallow swirl marks, and on many cars in bad shape really bring back the color and shine. So he says his budget is $300, and for $300 I can only do the 1-step, no more. So we settle for the 1-step. If he comes back with the same car, but this time black (first one was not black), I will not charge him $325 or $350 for the same 1-step, just based on color. The shops I see around the city do.

 

[Accumulator]

LUSTR- Are we/can we be 100% certain that they do the exact same work on black as on other colors? Maybe...just thinking out loud here...they do something like one-step with a rotary and on black they work harder at not leaving holograms, or have their most experienced (and highest-paid) guy do the black cars. Maybe they just hate doing black cars so much that they want extra for it :nixweiss



Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not defending them or anything, just, well, thinking out loud. Maybe if people get ticked off by their practices it'll mean more business for you

 

[imported_Picus]

Picus I understand what you're saying. I'm not talking about giving a quote for a car and recommending a service. I'm talking about advertising a service for a certain price, then saying right under that service that it's $20 (or whatever) more for a black car. In other words, saying that a wash for a blue 1999 BMW M3 coupe will be $30 and for a black 1999 BMW M3 couple $35. That's as clear as I can explain what I was trying to say. Obviously I'm not talking about a wash, but that's the simplest example I can think of.

I get it now, Chicago or not. I agree, charging more *just* because a car is black is silly. The people doing that are basically saying they take short cuts on lighter colored cars. I do see what Scott is saying, too, but I think you guys are talking about two different things.



Most of my clients want their cars to look good, they trust me to perform the service required to make it look acceptable to them. Sometimes on black that takes longer, sometimes it doesn't; but me making the assumption black will always take longer because I can take shortcuts on a silver car is silliness.

 

[Scottwax]

As long as you are doing the same exact steps, there is no reason to charge more if the car is black-only caveat I can think of is if you are working on uber soft paint that takes longer to finesse, even if it is just 1 step.

 

[imported_Ivan Rajic]

LUSTR- Are we/can we be 100% certain that they do the exact same work on black as on other colors? Maybe...just thinking out loud here...they do something like one-step with a rotary and on black they work harder at not leaving holograms, or have their most experienced (and highest-paid) guy do the black cars. Maybe they just hate doing black cars so much that they want extra for it :nixweiss



Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not defending them or anything, just, well, thinking out loud. Maybe if people get ticked off by their practices it'll mean more business for you

Oh I'm not taking any of this the wrong way, I was just hoping I could get what I meant across well enough for everyone to understand. To answer your question, I have first hand experience with a couple of these shops, and have close friends that have gone elsewhere, all the same story. Trust me when I say they're not taking ANY precautions a good detailer would on a black car. Rotaries with wool pads and god knows what liquid are in full force, ruining every color that goes through those doors. One of my friends did tell me that the "detailer" mentioned black cars show more defects so they require special polishing techniques, however the same exact process was done, and the same exact (Horrible) results.

I get it now, Chicago or not. I agree, charging more *just* because a car is black is silly. The people doing that are basically saying they take short cuts on lighter colored cars. I do see what Scott is saying, too, but I think you guys are talking about two different things.



Most of my clients want their cars to look good, they trust me to perform the service required to make it look acceptable to them. Sometimes on black that takes longer, sometimes it doesn't; but me making the assumption black will always take longer because I can take shortcuts on a silver car is silliness.

Yea they're completely different things. I completely agree with Scott that a black car will require more work to get to the same look a silver car has, or even other colors. But this is simply the same exact process, however sold as something "special" to owners of black vehicles. It's a shame but they're getting rich off of it.

As long as you are doing the same exact steps, there is no reason to charge more if the car is black-only caveat I can think of is if you are working on uber soft paint that takes longer to finesse, even if it is just 1 step.

Agreed. Here's the result of our local "detailers"... LUSTR Auto Detailing Gallery - Porsche 2002 911



Obviously nothing close to proper polishing, let alone finessing.

 

[JCastro1085]

LUSTR- Maybe you could turn this to your advantage, saying something like:



While some detailing shops charge extra for black vehicles, we charge the same price regardless of color. Our policy is to give all our customers a great job at a fair price.

That's actually great advice.

I understand perfectly what you're both trying to say. But JCastro: your analogy doesn't work in this situation. Washing a vehicle (especially if it's an automated wash) is the exact same process and time spent, regardless of the color of the vehicle. Polishing is not. The non-Autopian customer has this in mind: I want to see paintwork that isn't heavily swirled or marked up. A few swirls are OK, few scratches are OK, but I want it looking nicer than before. It takes less time to make silver paintwork look like that, than black paintwork. Especially if you're using fillers and glazes and such. Even more so if you're one-stepping it, or polishing without claying first.



I guess what I'm getting down to is, if you're going to cut corners, it's easier to cut corners on a non-black vehicle than a black one.



Now I'm not advocating cutting corners, or ripping anyone off, certainly not. But if the customer is only willing to pay so much, and you only have so much time, then you're forced into things like one-stepping and "cutting corners". It's not a bad thing to do, it's not a wrong thing to do, as long as the customer understands what they're getting for what they're paying. I understand there are Autopians out there who wouldn't do this type of thing (some of them may feel they need to maintain a "99.995% perfect job everytime"), but for those of us that cater to this market-segment, that is why some shops charge more for black paint correction.

I think your taking this off-topic a little, the analogy I made is pretty accurate. The automatic car wash has a set menu price ($5, $10, $15) the same thing with some of the packages detailer HERE offer, but when a black car pulls in...that set price has now gone up simply because of the vehicles color and that is a rip-off. It is a Package and if it takes a bit more work to make a black car look as good as a white car then so be it, thats how you get repeat customers and good word of mouth, isn't that what every Professional strives for?



I have a black Chrysler 300M Special & my gf has a white Honda Accord EX, now say I went into Ivan's shop and selected the $375 package (for this example say this is what it costs straight up $375 even) what a lot of shops out here are doing is they would do her vehicle for $375 but JUST BECAUSE my vehicle is black...that $375 package automatically went up to $425-$450 and that is not right! What Ivan is trying to say is that since it is a $375 package both vehicles should be charge the same.



When I see a shop charging more simply because my car is black it pi$$es me off because her vehicle is filled with swirls/scratches/halograms/etc and she is okay with that (I'm not but w/e its her car & am not going to correct it because she is one of those who just runs her vehicle thru the car wash so its pointless) but even though my paint is in great condition and her's is what we would call a nightmare, the price for my package would be more simply because it is black and that is a rip off! As I stated you can have a black car whose paint is in far better condition then the average vehicle rolling down the street. It has to be done based off of the vehicles condition and not necessarily the color.



Now one more thing I want to remind us all on is this:



-Each car should be given your 100% effort because your name is written on the work done



-Occasionally you'll get a silver or white car, and perhaps that color vehicle only needs 80%-85% effort to get it to look up to par with our standards here. DO NOT get comfortable with only needing to put in 80%-85% effort because if you do, when a customer comes with a black car....now you have to forget the 80% and do a 100% you're going to see that as "more work" and will charge the customer more when in reality it is not and that's the rip-off.

 

[JCastro1085]

I would argue that a silver vehicle takes (dare I say) longer to perfect than a black vehicle. Why do I say this, because black paint work you see the defects staring you in the face. With silver you have to tape a metal halide to your nuggets and do an Autopian Defect Dance just to see the same level of defects

Great point!!! I never thought about that one, and that's a good come-back to a lot of shops around here.

 

[JCastro1085]

In many cases that might be 1 or 2 steps on silver or other lighter colors but take 3 steps to achieve on black. It has nothing to do with shortchanging anyone but to provide them with the most bang for their buck.

Thats fair and I agree with you on this.

Another reason I charge hourly, 12 hours on a black car pays the same as 12 hours on a white car.

Good point.

Here's the scenario:



I drive down the street, and see a sign that says:





"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""



1-step Polish & Wax... get that showroom shine going we do it all, blah blah blah



All the stuff included:

thorough wash

wheel cleaning

tire dressing

glass cleaning

1-step machine polish/wax to (insert verb/phrase here, usually something like "remove scratches, restore showroom shine", etc.)

high quality wax



*Cars $80, SUVs $100

*Black vehicles extra



"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

The shops I see around the city do.

I can name sooooo many shops around here that have a sign posted out front (with a bunch of guys with dirty terry towels in hand ready to dry your car) IDENTICAL to that!

I get it now, Chicago or not. I agree, charging more *just* because a car is black is silly. The people doing that are basically saying they take short cuts on lighter colored cars. I do see what Scott is saying, too, but I think you guys are talking about two different things.



Most of my clients want their cars to look good, they trust me to perform the service required to make it look acceptable to them. Sometimes on black that takes longer, sometimes it doesn't; but me making the assumption black will always take longer because I can take shortcuts on a silver car is silliness.

You hit the nail on the head with this one Bud!

LUSTR- Are we/can we be 100% certain that they do the exact same work on black as on other colors? Maybe...just thinking out loud here...they do something like one-step with a rotary and on black they work harder at not leaving holograms, or have their most experienced (and highest-paid) guy do the black cars. Maybe they just hate doing black cars so much that they want extra for it :nixweiss



Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not defending them or anything, just, well, thinking out loud. Maybe if people get ticked off by their practices it'll mean more business for you

-In reality there are very few people with the skill who can finish down a 1-step via rotary on a black car w/out leaving any halograms, swrils, or marring (not saying it can't be done but we all know how hard that would be) and I highly doubt anyone with that level of skill would be working at some local car wash getting vehicles done in an hour charging $125-$135 to make it "show room flawless" But I do appreciate all the posts in this discussions because everyone here certainly has brought up good points of view.



-Here in Chicago a lot of people get fed up with that and end up never going back, so it does mean more work/customers for Ivan. As it stands he is really the only one well known around here to have Autopian standards. Think about it, whose the first people that comes to mind when you think of a Detailer in Chicago? I would say him. (in Chicago at least, idk about the people in neighboring suburbs)

 

[Jean-Claude]

I don't charge more for black because it is black. I may charge more than a basic price if someone with a black car says, "hey, I want as close to 100% as earthly possible without wet sanding."(that has more to do with time and how easily it corrects than the actual color tho) But the color does not dictate the price. The "basic" prices are set where they are because they cover a gray area between black paint and silver or white. You win some, you lose some...in other words sometimes they want the same detail on an easier or more difficult car, but it balances out. (In reality I don't lose any of 'em. I make sure jobs are priced where I won't lose)



Truth be told, I don't give a crap what anyone else in my area does. As long as I do what is right by my clients, I have no one else to care or worry about.

 

[Scottwax]

-Occasionally you'll get a silver or white car, and perhaps that color vehicle only needs 80%-85% effort to get it to look up to par with our standards here. DO NOT get comfortable with only needing to put in 80%-85% effort because if you do, when a customer comes with a black car....now you have to forget the 80% and do a 100% you're going to see that as "more work" and will charge the customer more when in reality it is not and that's the rip-off.

If you do an 80-85% correction (as requested) and then someone wants a full correction, of course you will charge more since you are doing more work. It isn't about getting comfortable, it is about meeting the customer's expectations based on what they are willing to pay. Any good detailer won't think they can get by not doing a full correction on a vehicle the customer is willing to pay for as close to perfection as possible. It is going to be visually obvious you didn't do the work you said you would.