some guys expecting too much from LSP?

Bobsealant said:
I honestly cannot see a difference between the two pictures. Frankly, I don't know where the differences are that you see.



Nice detail, btw.
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Really? It's quite obvious to me.



In the first picture, the paint is much, much darker than in the second. The second picture is much more clear.



This might be why you think a normal 'Autopian' is obessed with brand names. Different products give very different results, and it take a special eye to be able to notice it ;)



And please, never, ever, use post count as a measure of intelligence or experience. It just measures the number of times you've clicked the "Submit Reply" button.



Well, I hit Ctrl+S, but you get my drift. ;)
 
Prep work is all important ! After saying that, I would like to speak to the issue of products. I enjoy trying different things on my vehicles, and there are distinct differences between products. We have to acknowledge the subjective differences in individuals, which are a big component of our opinions of the various products we constantly analyse and compare. Personally I prefer sealants for an objective reason, durability. But prep is all important to me... and I think, to most of us here. I think everyone who learns to detail will attest to the fact that a LSP is nothing over defective paintwork. It is a mild irritant to hear someone insinuate that due to intense interest in products that "Autopians" are more interested in polishes/waxes than the entire process. Its a great hobby, why stagnate ? Try everything.... thats the fun of it !:xyxthumbs
 
Bobsealant said:
After reading these forums for a while now, I'd have to disagree with you. I get the very distinct impression that many people here are hung up on 'brand names', and 'clear vs. salad oil', etc.



As much many of you say prep is important, I sincerely don't think that a lot of you actually believe it.
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What can I say Bob? :)



I think we may disagree more on degree than substance. I do think that the differences in the appearance of certain LSP's are over emphasized here at times, especially when they are used over well prepared paint, but honestly even with my eyesight, using products side by side I can see the difference between say UPP and Signature. I do not even consider nuba's and sealants in the same product class. Using one or the other is just down to personal taste in my mind.
 
MongooseGA said:
Really? It's quite obvious to me.



In the first picture, the paint is much, much darker than in the second. The second picture is much more clear.



This might be why you think a normal 'Autopian' is obessed with brand names. Different products give very different results, and it take a special eye to be able to notice it ;)



And please, never, ever, use post count as a measure of intelligence or experience. It just measures the number of times you've clicked the "Submit Reply" button.



Well, I hit Ctrl+S, but you get my drift. ;)
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I didn't mention anyones post count. I'm not sure what you're referring to? :nixweiss



As for the pics, again, there is no difference to me. :nixweiss
 
MongooseGA said:
Really? It's quite obvious to me.



In the first picture, the paint is much, much darker than in the second. The second picture is much more clear.
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Actually ,if you look at the entire area of both pictures, the lighting, exposure is different. The background is different in tonal qualities.... Lighting can make any finish look vastly different. If you dont think so, take your camera and take pictures of any vehicle from different angles and different lighting... The detail is great, I am not knocking the fine job, but I cant judge the difference between the two jobs due to the lighting change. Of course this is only MHO:nixweiss
 
Bobsealant said:
I honestly cannot see a difference between the two pictures. Frankly, I don't know where the differences are that you see.
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Look at the difference in the way the car in the side is reflected between the two. GW has a more sealant look with sharp reflections. Note the car (same one, btw) in the EX pic isn't nearly as clearly reflected and the paint has a warmer glow.



I can clearly see a difference on my black car when comparing sealants to carnauba based products.



Without proper prep, the differences wouldn't be as noticable.
 
mochamanz said:
Actually ,if you look at the entire area of both pictures, the lighting, exposure is different. The background is different in tonal qualities.... Lighting can make any finish look vastly different. If you dont think so, take your camera and take pictures of any vehicle from different angles and different lighting... The detail is great, I am not knocking the fine job, but I cant judge the difference between the two jobs due to the lighting change. Of course this is only MHO:nixweiss
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The lighting is pretty close, the sun isn't quite as bright in the GW pic but the difference in reflections off the side has nothing to do with the lighting or exposure.
 
The lines of the reflected car look equally sharp to me. I don't see a diff. What is different though is the lighting and the angle of the reflection.
 
mochamanz said:
Actually ,if you look at the entire area of both pictures, the lighting, exposure is different. The background is different in tonal qualities.... Lighting can make any finish look vastly different. If you dont think so, take your camera and take pictures of any vehicle from different angles and different lighting... The detail is great, I am not knocking the fine job, but I cant judge the difference between the two jobs due to the lighting change. Of course this is only MHO:nixweiss
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You are definitely right about the lighting. The first picture looks like it was taken with a polarizing filter over the lens, hence the darker looking panels lacking reflection. The second looked like it was taken straight with no filter, thus making it more reflective. I don't know whether this is the case or not, but it does look like it. Personally, I like look of the first vehicle better. Deep is good. :)
 
scott,



All things equal, like prep being equally good et all,



a sealant like z2pro with z6 will give a more synthetic, just out of the paintshop look



Whilst



a quality carnuba like S100 as a LSP will give a wetter look with more depth?



BTW, has any1 tried using s100, followed by z2pro instead of s100 as a LSP?

A buddy of mine does this and claims it adds noticeable depth.

Im not entirely sure of the bonding issues though.
 
"Actually ,if you look at the entire area of both pictures, the lighting, exposure is different. The background is different in tonal qualities.... Lighting can make any finish look vastly different."



Exactly, look at the wall in the pictures. In one picture you can see the texture in it while in the other the texture is washed out. You cannot make any comparison with pictures unless lighting conditions are EXACTLY the same.
 
Both pictures look awesome. We could get a 100 people in a room and discuss what looks better, richer, clearer, deeper, etc. and there would be huge differences of opinions. Bottom line is proper prepping is crucial to the final finish appearance. I gave up trying to over analyze the final appearances of all the waxes and protectants I've applied and have come to realize they all are basically the same with some minor differences. Some will be wetter looking, some shinier, some deeper, clearer, etc., but they all look good with a properly prepped surface IMHO.
 
Bobsealant said:
The lines of the reflected car look equally sharp to me. I don't see a diff. What is different though is the lighting and the angle of the reflection.
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The lighting is as equal as I can get it when the pictures are weeks apart. They were taken around the same time in the late morning but the sun is more intense now but the sun might have been right at the edge of a cloud when I took the GW shot.



I have no filters on my camera and I am not an astronomy whiz and can't always tell that 4 weeks later, the angle and intensity of the sun are not exactly the same. Anyone who has any suggestions on how to make sure all my pictures come out with the same exact exposure no matter what time of year and what the sun intensity is, I'm all ears.



The fact still remains that there are differences in the way LSPs can look on the same color with equal prep. If equal prep meant equal appearance no matter what the LSP is, I'd be using the cheapest product available that had decent durability.



BTW, since the sunlight is a bit brighter in the first picture, you notice it didn't wash out the appearance of the truck. ;)
 
That's what I pride myself on, plenty of prep. You can't turn dog s into diamonds by slapping a few layers of carnuaba on dead paint
 
Pinnacle Souveran convinced me of the difference in LSP's. I've tried a number of waxes and sealants, but when I applied Souveran Paste to my Jet Black M3 I was astounded. I'm also impressed with Souveran on lighter colors such as our graphite grey Mazda and bamboo Lexus. I have half a jar left now, and probably have made at least 20 applications. So for $2-3 per application I'm going to be using this wax as my standard issue for my own vehicles. My other waxes I'll use on friends cars.
 
Carl Anderson said:
Pinnacle Souveran convinced me of the difference in LSP's. I've tried a number of waxes and sealants, but when I applied Souveran Paste to my Jet Black M3 I was astounded. I'm also impressed with Souveran on lighter colors such as our graphite grey Mazda and bamboo Lexus. I have half a jar left now, and probably have made at least 20 applications. So for $2-3 per application I'm going to be using this wax as my standard issue for my own vehicles. My other waxes I'll use on friends cars.
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Carl, I have no doubt your vehicle looks fantastic. :bow



That's the amazing part of what 2 people see between products on the same color paint. I brought Souveran, and I pride myself on prepping the finish, and got the complete polar opposite results in term of visual satisfication. On my paint the Souveran tend to darken but dull, decrease unaltered reflectivity and the glow of the paint. I perceived no change in depth. Not the "just-out-of-the-paint-booth" appearance I love.

That's why it is best to personally try products oneself rather than be skewed by one-dimensional pixs. Still can not figure how anyone see "depth" on a monitor. :nixweiss
 
the best way to see the differences between carnauba and sealants is to place them on adjacent panels-in my case NXT had deep,crisp,mirror like reflections-Collinite 845 had slightly softer reflections and lost detail in objects further away- from 20 ft away the Collinite had a more consistant glossy glow where the NXT would tend to white out-subtle differences
 
Scottwax



In both pictures the truck looks great.



"I have no filters on my camera and I am not an astronomy whiz and can't always tell that 4 weeks later, the angle and intensity of the sun are not exactly the same. Anyone who has any suggestions on how to make sure all my pictures come out with the same exact exposure no matter what time of year and what the sun intensity is, I'm all ears."



It is IMPOSSIBLE to do that and that is why it makes absolutely NO sense to use different pictures for product comparisons. The differences seen in the pictures may have nothing to with the LSP but rather the lighting differences.



Doing half the hood with product A and half the hood with product B might show some discernible differences. That would at least be a more objective method.
 
RIC said:


Doing half the hood with product A and half the hood with product B might show some discernible differences. That would at least be a more objective method.
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Unfortunately, those differences don't always show on film and with a customer needing his vehicle by a certain time, I didn't have time to experiment. When I took the picture after applying Glanz Wax, it wasn't even meant for comparison purposes. I just thought the truck looked pretty good with it. After seeing it side by side with EX on it, I could see a richer glow with EX.



That is the tough thing with customer's vehicles. They aren't yours and you usually have a timeframe you are working in. By the time I get to my car, it is always late in the day.



One thing for sure, I could definitely see a difference between Shokar and UPP vs. carnauba based LSPs on my own car. The sealants are noticably brighter.
 
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