Soft Clear Coat on a Black 1961 Lincoln Continental

[sirduncan773]

So here is my story...



I have been doing this for 5 years now and have worked on hundreds of paint jobs but this one has me going nuts.



I'm correcting the paint on a black Lincoln Continental and I'm on the final step (WAXING) and when I remove the wax off of the paint, it keeps leaving extremely fine lines in the paint that only go in the direction of the towel. Before waxing the car the paint looked perfect with no hologramming or anything in the paint, maybe because I wash the car between every step. If that is so, how do I get the wax off without screwing up the paint?... UGH



I used brand new Griots Garage micro fibers which are super soft and Zymol Concours Glaze. I tried using other high carnuba waxes but nothing seems to work.



The car was painted about 5 years ago so I know fresh paint isn't the issue, so maybe there isn't enough hardener in the clear coat?



Does anybody have a tip or trick to help me get through this? I'm already 16 hours into this car and I'm ready to move on to my next client.

 

[Ron Ketcham]

5 years ago, still soft clear?

Not enough "hardener" additive to the clear when mixing.

Unlikely, but also the painter used the incorrect reducer for the conditions of the time he applied.

Grumpy

 

[sirduncan773]

5 years ago, still soft clear?

Not enough "hardener" additive to the clear when mixing.

Unlikely, but also the painter used the incorrect reducer for the conditions of the time he applied.

Grumpy

Do you have any suggestions on how to get around this?



I'm not a painter so i don't know what could cause this and have never had this issue pop up before and that's why I'm here...

 

[Scottwax]

Could it be the lines are in the wax? It is cooler and wetter than normal in Arizona right now (grew up there, keep tabs on what is going on) and it could be the wax isn't drying long enough before you wipe it off. I've noticed that issue here on cool, damp days.

 

[sirduncan773]

Could it be the lines are in the wax? It is cooler and wetter than normal in Arizona right now (grew up there, keep tabs on what is going on) and it could be the wax isn't drying long enough before you wipe it off. I've noticed that issue here on cool, damp days.

Yeah, it has been raining like no other lately and tons of snow up north.



Should I let the wax sit a little longer or possibly try a couple/few coats? When I got this car in, I noticed that if you rub your finger across the paint, it left tiny micro-scratches behind that were very noticeable in the sun.



I just did a black Escalade the other day and I didn't have this issue at all.

 

[tssdetailing]

Escalade (ie GM paint) is quite hard and not comparable. Is the Continental paint original? I did an original black 64 some months back and DAMN that was soft, and thin. Also, many paints, new/old will mar if you glide your fingers over them, it's called 'man hands' lol!



After you've removed the wax from the whole car, wait an hour and do a final pass with a new MF, misted with some quick detailer, see if that clears up the streaks.

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

Is the Continental paint original? I did an original black 64 some months back and DAMN that was soft, and thin.

He did say it was painted 5 years ago.... and if it were original paint on a '61 it would be single stage black, which most definitely is some extremely soft paint.

 

[JohnKleven]

Are you rubbing the concours wax until its smooth. I recommend to out a dab into your hand and with your other hand work the concours until it has a slurry consistency. Are you applying with bare hands?

 

[jfelbab]

If it is wax/oil film on the paint does spiriting a microfiber with a mist of water level the wax and make the streaks disappear?

 

[Scottwax]

Yeah, it has been raining like no other lately and tons of snow up north.



Should I let the wax sit a little longer or possibly try a couple/few coats? When I got this car in, I noticed that if you rub your finger across the paint, it left tiny micro-scratches behind that were very noticeable in the sun.



I just did a black Escalade the other day and I didn't have this issue at all.

There are a lot of paints that will mar if you rub your fingers across it. I've detailed jet black BMWs that I have a hard time washing without marring if they don't have wax on them. If you didn't get any marring when wiping off the polish, then you shouldn't get any marring wiping off wax either. Let it set up longer, or mist with a QD as you remove and see if that takes care of the problem.

 

[sirduncan773]

There are a lot of paints that will mar if you rub your fingers across it. I've detailed jet black BMWs that I have a hard time washing without marring if they don't have wax on them. If you didn't get any marring when wiping off the polish, then you shouldn't get any marring wiping off wax either. Let it set up longer, or mist with a QD as you remove and see if that takes care of the problem.

I have tried using a QD and still having the same issue. I took the car to a guy that specializes in automotive paint and he told me to try using cold water when removing the wax and this is the same thimg my Zymol distributor told me to try. They both said it helps the Zymol bond to the paint better than using a QD. I'll give it a try and see if it works.

 

[sirduncan773]

Are you rubbing the concours wax until its smooth. I recommend to out a dab into your hand and with your other hand work the concours until it has a slurry consistency. Are you applying with bare hands?

I'm using the Zymol applicator to apply the wax. I have used Zymol for years and never had this problem.

 

[sirduncan773]

Are you rubbing the concours wax until its smooth. I recommend to out a dab into your hand and with your other hand work the concours until it has a slurry consistency. Are you applying with bare hands?

Escalade (ie GM paint) is quite hard and not comparable. Is the Continental paint original? I did an original black 64 some months back and DAMN that was soft, and thin. Also, many paints, new/old will mar if you glide your fingers over them, it's called 'man hands' lol!



After you've removed the wax from the whole car, wait an hour and do a final pass with a new MF, misted with some quick detailer, see if that clears up the streaks.

It's not streaking from the wax. When I took it to my paint guy, he looked at it and said they are scratches. I know paints mar when you touch them but even the slightest touch makes noticeable marks in the paint.

 

[TLMitchell]

I had this issue with Harley-Davidson's Vivid Black. My plushest MFs left marring... anything with any type of nap. Through much trial and error I got the best results removing polish and wax or sealant residue using my softest Waffle Weave's misted with M34. I even had to fold over the satin edges as the edges left marks. Softest most miserable clear I've ever encountered. Once I got it where I wanted it I applied Opti Coat 2.0 which claims to be harder than the clearcoat it's protecting when it's fully cured. Must work as claimed, my marring and swirling problems are virtually gone. YMMV.



TL

 

[tssdetailing]

Yes, from what he's describing a WOWA product like Opticoat or Optiseal might be in his best interest. Maybe even Zaino-though i'm not familiar enough with its application/removal.

 

[Scottwax]

I applied Opti Coat 2.0 which claims to be harder than the clearcoat it's protecting when it's fully cured. Must work as claimed, my marring and swirling problems are virtually gone. YMMV.



TL

Good to hear. Got a call from a GTR owner, says the black paint is driving him nuts enough he is considering repainting it. He asked if doing a correction, then applying the coating would minimize future damage. I told him I thought it would but hadn't heard of anyone actually using it specifically for that purpose. Please keep me posted how it continues to work for you.

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

Good to hear. Got a call from a GTR owner, says the black paint is driving him nuts enough he is considering repainting it. He asked if doing a correction, then applying the coating would minimize future damage. I told him I thought it would but hadn't heard of anyone actually using it specifically for that purpose. Please keep me posted how it continues to work for you.

I'll be able to weigh in on this soon as well; one of my customers with an OC'd jet black M3 is/was planning to hand wash it himself so I'll see what happens as far as any new marring.



Also OC'd a Porsche with soft paint earlier this year and waterless washed it with Opti-Clean, no new marring whatsoever.

 

[TLMitchell]

Good to hear. Got a call from a GTR owner, says the black paint is driving him nuts enough he is considering repainting it. He asked if doing a correction, then applying the coating would minimize future damage. I told him I thought it would but hadn't heard of anyone actually using it specifically for that purpose. Please keep me posted how it continues to work for you.

Haven't had much opportunity to really work over the OC on the bike since the Ohio weather went to crap, funny how that happens about this time every year. My initial experiment was on the batwing fairing that bears the brunt of the road crud and bugs. A few days after the OC was applied I got it covered in bugs. After the usual wash that usually leaves tons of marks from the scrubbing that can't be avoided I wheeled it out in the sun... not so much as a mark!



I ought to have the full verdict when I get back from FL in March. Nothing like a couple week road trip to test a bike's finish.



TL

 

[Ron Ketcham]

I pretty much have to stand by my original post, the painter did not put enough "activator" in the paint, simple.

Not an uncommon thing back then or today.

When the vehicle was being reshot then, it was about 6 or 8 years into the chemistry changes of paint per VOC regulations, reducers, etc.

Many painters really beleived that they were smarter than the paint supplier's chemist, the chemistry.

I have made this mistake, did it recently, thought I could slow down the "flash point" of the 2K I was shooting.

The result of "my being a brainiac" was a finish that was extremely soft, so I put heat and air to it, I let it "cure" for two weeks.

Still "soft".

I could have let it set and "try to cure" for 5 years, it would still have been soft, it was missing enough activator.

Ending up taking it all off and following the paint supplier's instructions to the letter, even using a scale to insure I was doing the correct mix.

Yeah, then it was as it should have been, great gloss, good, firm finish.

That's just the way it is, and even after all my years of shooting finishes, I still had to "learn".

Grumpy

 

[sirduncan773]

I pretty much have to stand by my original post, the painter did not put enough "activator" in the paint, simple.

Not an uncommon thing back then or today.

When the vehicle was being reshot then, it was about 6 or 8 years into the chemistry changes of paint per VOC regulations, reducers, etc.

Many painters really beleived that they were smarter than the paint supplier's chemist, the chemistry.

I have made this mistake, did it recently, thought I could slow down the "flash point" of the 2K I was shooting.

The result of "my being a brainiac" was a finish that was extremely soft, so I put heat and air to it, I let it "cure" for two weeks.

Still "soft".

I could have let it set and "try to cure" for 5 years, it would still have been soft, it was missing enough activator.

Ending up taking it all off and following the paint supplier's instructions to the letter, even using a scale to insure I was doing the correct mix.

Yeah, then it was as it should have been, great gloss, good, firm finish.

That's just the way it is, and even after all my years of shooting finishes, I still had to "learn".

Grumpy

So do you think any of the products that were recommended will help with the issue of the soft clear? I'll still have the car in my shop for another 2 weeks and would like to get it as good as I can. I ordered a couple of recommended products to see what they can do, so I guess that is a start.



My client is aware of the issue and the car was kind of hammered when I got it in, so with that being said, he knows that there is a possibility that this is an issue that might be out of my hands.