So... What is a complete detail?

I think to a degree the audience is important in this also. Those used to getting the car washed for $10 at the local hand-wash place are going to have VERY different expectations than the person who pays for a $250 detail once a month. In any case, I'd still dry the car. With the ONR/DPR it's fast and simple.

I also think it's a fair bit easier to assess the paint for further work if there are no new water spots on it. But this is just my view after doing this for a short time.

One other thing I've noticed is that presentation is important. I think when doing cars for more selective clients, how you present yourself and your business is noted. I make a point to try and discuss things with the client, set expectations, and keep them involved. Little things like the courtesy wash I did this weekend on another of the cars of the person who hired me. I was waiting for the sealant to set up on the car I was working on, so I did a quick rinseless wash of their other car as it sat in the driveway. Those kinds of things get noted, and my tip reflected it.
A good move, but also a good example of varying expectations.
Lots of people would be upset if they saw you washing their vehicle without using a hose.

Seven years ago, I wouldn't have used a waterless wash if you paid me. Now, Poorboy's Spray & Wipe is one of my most used products.
Two years ago, I had many reservations about rinseless washing. Now, almost all of my washing that isn't done with S&W is done with a rinseless wash product.

Here again, the final appearance is going to go a long way towards the customer accepting what you are doing.
 
Excellent comments CharlesW. And again, I go back to my comment of keeing the customer involved. In this instance, I assessed the car with the customer, told them what I would be able to correct and what I could not. After doing a test section, I brought them to examine it, and did the same after restoring the headlamps. After that, I had their trust and they felt at ease that they were going to get a nice product. By that evening, the car had been transformed and on inspection the customer was astounded.

I needed another half day, so I told them I would return in the morning. The left the keys for me so I could finish with the sealant. After finishing the next day, I cleaned up, parked the car in the garage for them (rain was forecast), then went home and sent them a message about how to let the sealant cure, let them know I had courtesy washed the other car, where I had left the spare key, etc. Now they want me to address the family's other two cars as well.

Set expectations, do good work, follow up. Basic business 101.
 
As a paying customer, in my mind, the results are not the same. I don't want water spots with mineral deposits all over my paint. IMHO, if I am paying you to do a wash I expect it to be dried - not left to "drip dry" in the sun while the water has a chance to dry on the vehicle. I think even most non-detail oriented folks associate drying with a car wash. If I am paying for something to be done, I expect it to be done. Again, this is just my take on it. Not saying you're wrong, just saying I wouldn't be paying you to do my vehicle.

I dry with a wash, the only time I don't dry is when I am going to polish
 
I concede. I guess if you're going to polish then it probably doesn't matter. Just curious about that affecting your ability to evaluate the paint to determine what kind of polishing steps you might need to take? Or do you just have a normal pre-determined polish routine?

For instance - when I do a vehicle I would wash & clay, dry, then evaluate under halogen lighting. Different strokes for different folks perhaps.
 
I wish I could take a detail that far, unfortunately I don't usually. 99.99% of my details are 2 1/2 step, The half step being rotary spot scratch removal, followed by ssr2 and then pws,both with pc .
 
I wish I could take a detail that far, unfortunately I don't usually. 99.99% of my details are 2 1/2 step, The half step being rotary spot scratch removal, followed by ssr2 and then pws,both with pc .

You probably do a whole lot more than I do. :D Actually, most of the ones I work on these days are either my own or family, so I can spend a whole lot of time on them and not get paid for it.
 
to me the following is not needed in a complete/full/premium detail, these should be extras and a complete detail with polishing and waxing should take no more than one full 8-9 hours of work, the rest below will add much more time consumption and would not possibly be able to be done in one day.

- engine bay shampoo/clean ** is included at most shops but is also an extra option ** i dont do this because i am not a formal shop and dont want to risk damaging someones car.
- exhaust pipe polish
- wheel refinishing
- headlight restoration
- taillight restoration
- glass polishing
- rain x or similar application ** I do include in my premium packages tho **
- headliner cleaning ** very hard to safely clean some headliners out there so i dont touch these
- i also dont seal and wax in my packages its one or the other and a dual LSP would definately constitute additional costs to the customer. anything more than one coat of your LSP would be extra in my mind at customer request for multiple layers.


cant think of much more but i know these for sure shouldnt be needed in a standard complete detail ....
 
I have to assume that guys who detail for a living all the time must take a few shortcuts (not obvious or even noticed by the customer) to save time. The net is you get what you pay for so in terms to attention to minor details.

For example, I saw some videos on autopia by one of the regular posters (someone who does it for a living) and I was surprised how little he cleaned the wheels (between the spokes) with a brush. My guess he works on well maintained cars more often then not.

For example, a full detail for $150 will not be as through as a full detail for $300 even though on paper they are essentially performing the same basic tasks.
 
I have to assume that guys who detail for a living all the time must take a few shortcuts (not obvious or even noticed by the customer) to save time. The net is you get what you pay for so in terms to attention to minor details.

For example, I saw some videos on autopia by one of the regular posters (someone who does it for a living) and I was surprised how little he cleaned the wheels (between the spokes) with a brush. My guess he works on well maintained cars more often then not.

For example, a full detail for $150 will not be as through as a full detail for $300 even though on paper they are essentially performing the same basic tasks.
I agree with that, if I could make $300 per detail and spend 6 hrs I would. My objective every day is to make $300, unfortunatly I have regular washes and drive time that gets in the the way of spending any extended amount of time on a detail.
 
I have to assume that guys who detail for a living all the time must take a few shortcuts (not obvious or even noticed by the customer) to save time. The net is you get what you pay for so in terms to attention to minor details.

For example, I saw some videos on autopia by one of the regular posters (someone who does it for a living) and I was surprised how little he cleaned the wheels (between the spokes) with a brush. My guess he works on well maintained cars more often then not.

For example, a full detail for $150 will not be as through as a full detail for $300 even though on paper they are essentially performing the same basic tasks.
I think you are quite right about what is done and what needs to be done being a pretty subjective thing.
A lot of the things that some of us think are necessary aren't even noticed by many/most people.

Things noticed: Not necessarily in any particular order.

Shiny paint
Clean windows
Clean face of wheels
Vacuumed carpet where easily seen
Clean dash and instrument panel.

Things not noticed by a lot of people

Minor marring usually called spider webbing or swirls in the shiny paint
Top edges of windows not cleaned
Inside of wheel and spokes not cleaned
Under seats not vacuumed or blown out with air hose
Nooks and crannies of dash and interior not cleaned
Trunk not vacuumed
Underside of deck lid not clean
Door jambs and sills, trunk lip, underhood painted areas not cleaned.
Most don't even know that an engine can be clean
Dressed tires and wheel wells are not noticed by many

Some comments I have received over the years that lead me to believe that the little things we do for ourselves are not all that appreciated by the general public. Even those involved with automobiles in some way.

Parts man checking to see what hose I wanted to replace: "Do you ever drive this thing?" Vehicle had 100,000+ miles on it at the time.

Employee at homeless helping unload colthing from our van: "Did you just get a new van?" It was 4 years old with over 50,000 miles on it.

Employee at dealership doing a warranty repair: "I'v never worked on an engine that was this clean."

Friend that I had told I was going home to clean up the vehicle I was driving as he walked around the car: "Just what is it that you think needs to be cleaned up?" To me, the entire vehicle needed to be washed and the interior cleaned.

Another area that has surprised me is that I have never received any comment about my wheels being relatively clean on the inside when the tire shop installs new tires. I don't think they even notice.

My point being that the average customer will be happy with a lot less than most of us realize.
Eight hours may make a vehicle look better than new, but 3 hours can make it look good enough for most people to be very satisfied.
 
My point being that the average customer will be happy with a lot less than most of us realize.

Eight hours may make a vehicle look better than new, but 3 hours can make it look good enough for most people to be very satisfied.

And to me, this is the crux of the matter. And why I don't charge everyone the same thing. The problem is that the person who WILL notice the extra effort, in most cases, is the person willing to pay $250, AND the person who's car is in relatively good condition. It's the person who wants a $50 detail, who won't notice the wheel wells and trunk lid, but who's car NEEDS 8 hours to get to any semblance of looking clean.
 
My point being that the average customer will be happy with a lot less than most of us realize.
Eight hours may make a vehicle look better than new, but 3 hours can make it look good enough for most people to be very satisfied.

I think you are spot on with this one...only problem is that I wouldn't be able to sleep at night after doing a 3 hour job on a car. :D
 
I think you are spot on with this one...only problem is that I wouldn't be able to sleep at night after doing a 3 hour job on a car. :D


LOL i remember when i made 8 bucks an hour working 55 hour weeks 6 days at a high volume shop we were basically in a sweat shop for petes sake !!!

now i can do less work at my own pace and charge 20-30 an hour labour !

and anyone who does a 3-4 hour job is missing something ...

my basic wash and interior shampoo takes me at least 4 hours up to 5 hours ... and my premium package is all day long up to 9 hours ...

when polishing a car and a full interior i couldnt see anyone who can do it in any less than 8 hours if they arent taking their time and so forth .. then again i have a PC and not a Makita which could shave 1-1.5 hours off my polishing times but still i would still need 8 hours to do a satisfactory job .
 
LOL i remember when i made 8 bucks an hour working 55 hour weeks 6 days at a high volume shop we were basically in a sweat shop for petes sake !!!

now i can do less work at my own pace and charge 20-30 an hour labour !

and anyone who does a 3-4 hour job is missing something ...

my basic wash and interior shampoo takes me at least 4 hours up to 5 hours ... and my premium package is all day long up to 9 hours ...

when polishing a car and a full interior i couldnt see anyone who can do it in any less than 8 hours if they arent taking their time and so forth .. then again i have a PC and not a Makita which could shave 1-1.5 hours off my polishing times but still i would still need 8 hours to do a satisfactory job .

So at $20 per hour, an 8 hour job will net you $160, I have seen your work and its outstanding. My point is I won't leave a job unless the customer is 100% happy with the job and I'm sure you do like wise, the only difference is I'm making the same amount in half the time with the same results(a happy and hopefully a repeat customer). By no means am I knocking you, like I said I wish I had more time to spend on a detail, not only that, its hard to find someone willing to spend that kind of loot. In order to stay in business I HAVE to make at least $175 per day 5 days a week so that means I'm doing washes @ $30-$45 per, waxes @ $65- $100 per, and details starting at $150.
I have made a pretty reputable business out of this and for 5 years now I am yet to have a complaint (at least a justified one). So how do I sleep after a 3 hour detail? Like a baby, because on top of that detail I probably did a wax, 3 washes and maybe an interior detail, so I'm whooped.
 
Hands down it's the buffing step that takes up the most time, and it is the main reason my complete details take so long. The 1-step buffs jobs I did at the high volume shops took 30-45 min on average...now they take 2+ hours.

Other little things like strong "spray on rinse off" wheel cleaners have now been replaced with safe cleaners and various brushes. Taping off of trim can add a lot of time to the job as well, which is also something I never used to do.


It's not that are cars looked bad back then, my customers were always happy, they just look better now. ;)


Rasky
 
So at $20 per hour, an 8 hour job will net you $160, I have seen your work and its outstanding. My point is I won't leave a job unless the customer is 100% happy with the job and I'm sure you do like wise, the only difference is I'm making the same amount in half the time with the same results(a happy and hopefully a repeat customer). By no means am I knocking you, like I said I wish I had more time to spend on a detail, not only that, its hard to find someone willing to spend that kind of loot. In order to stay in business I HAVE to make at least $175 per day 5 days a week so that means I'm doing washes @ $30-$45 per, waxes @ $65- $100 per, and details starting at $150.
I have made a pretty reputable business out of this and for 5 years now I am yet to have a complaint (at least a justified one). So how do I sleep after a 3 hour detail? Like a baby, because on top of that detail I probably did a wax, 3 washes and maybe an interior detail, so I'm whooped.



yes this is what i am working up to as ive increased my prices from last year roughly 15-20% with the higher quality stuff i am using, the better quality of work i am now able to do as well as a few other variables ... to me $20-$25 is pretty adequate for alot of my work, once i get better at polishing i will switch and upgrade to a rotary polisher and then maybe increase my labour rate to as high as $30/hour because i feel its truely worth it but alot of competitive shops out there in my city charge around $200 for a full premium detail that i can now provide so i want to undercut those prices and still be able to make good money on the side as a hobby !

i by no means would look at doing this full time but if i developed a large base of customers i could justify increasing price, and doing it with the insurance that i would get at least 4 cars a week to do before i consider taking this on full time .

it would be nice to make $200-$250 a day but im not there just yet !

my washes start at $20
interior only shampoo details starts at $65
exteriors only including wash/clay/polish/wax start at $80-$85
4-5 hour job wash and interior $80and up
full day premium with polish/waxing start at $170 for up to 9 hours

anything i could do to these prices ?
 
In hind sight you are right on the mark seeing that the Loony is worth more than the dollar,jk. Unless you have two kids in daycare a mortgage and all sorts of different expenses you are doing just fine, keep up the good work.
 
In hind sight you are right on the mark seeing that the Loony is worth more than the dollar,jk. Unless you have two kids in daycare a mortgage and all sorts of different expenses you are doing just fine, keep up the good work.

yeah
-not married
-no kids
-live at home at 24 yrs old = super sigh
-etc etc etc

yah i think i am doing fine :)
 
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