So long Blackfire?

I

imported_Aurora40

New member
Well, today I wanted to get the car looking real nice as we were going to a local Corvette cruise-in (ok, my car is not a Corvette, but it's the first time it'd be in a showy area). I had been meaning to replenish the wax on it anyway, but the car needed some light polishing first. The Wolfgang/Blackfire combo didn't fare as well as I'd hoped and the car had some bug spots and water spots that weren't just washing off. I fixed the bug stuff with some Gold Class Bug & Tar Remover, then went to polishing.



I wanted to hand polish because it just needed light action, hand polishing doesn't dust and I don't have to mask, and I just felt like it. So, I wasn't sure about using SFP or Speed Glaze. Interestingly, only Speed Glaze is recommended for use by hand on the bottle. Anyway, I did half the hood with each. The difference was subtle, the Speed Glaze looked ever slightly better, but mainly it was much easier to apply and buff off by hand. So I Speed Glazed the car. It was actually a great product for hand use. Very easy to use, some effort required, but not much. Even by hand it breaks down incredibly quickly. I think it might even be milder than SFP if you work it a bit since SFP takes a lot longer to break down by hand (or at least it sure seemed to) meaning you are abrading for a longer period of time even if the abrasive action is initially less.



At this point, I'd usually be reaching for the Blackfire. However, it takes hours to set up before you can buff it, and then it never comes off 100%. I usually have to wait a day or two and QD it off. If the car gets dirty before that time, then it's wait for the next wash before it really looks 100%. I didn't have time for that, nor did I feel like dealing with it. So I grabbed the next closest thing to the Blackfire look. #16... It went on sooo easy over the Speed Glaze, much easier than it ever did as a topper. Buffing was easy too, I did the whole car, then buffed with the new edgless Ultimate Wipe. It seems to have good bite for that kind of buffing. When I saw the car outside, I was amazed. It looks even better than Blackfire. It doesn't have quite the metallic pop, but it's close, and it has more of a natural look with a very high shine. I love it! Plus, it's easy, I can apply it whenever, I can mix and match it with stuff like Souveran, I can wax over QD (like after a wash so I don't wax-in water spots), I can glaze on top of it and wax again (I might have to order some Hand Polish as I find #7 too finicky), etc. Carnauba is not picky or finicky, and this stuff can easily last months and months, especially on a garaged car.



I was really wowed. I've only put #16 over other sealants to this point, but I think I might just use it by itself now on the Aurora. I guess this will let me work in some NXT on the Aurora just to try out. I was worried it'd mess up the Blackfire if I used it with that. But you can't mess up carnauba, you can always re-add it. I'll probably even try some Blackfire over the #16 on occasion just for the heck of it, it can't hurt anything.



#16 has basically everything I love about Blackfire, the beading, it has a similar look, stuff doesn't stick to it, and it is quite durable, plus it's so much easier to use. Who'd have thunk something would have me shelving the Blackfire?



Oh, I didn't apply the Bug Guard as I didn't have time, but tomorrow I will try to QEW the front of the car and apply some of it. I'll let you know how it goes.
 
Aurora,



I liked BLACKFIRE at lot on my black Hemi. Still do. But the ease of application and the look of NXT has me hooked. I don't mess with topping it. I personally don't see the need to. I've even gotten pretty good at using the NXT spray wax.



I used #16 years ago --- as in maybe fifteen. I don't think that the formula has changed and I still have some left from then. I tried a bit on the Hemi as a topper over NXT and couldn't tell the difference where there was #16 and where there wasn't.



You might as well give NXT a shot on your Aurora and see what it's like. You too may have trouble going back to BLACKFIRE. :D



Tom :cool:
 
Heheh, #16 isn't really new to me, I got the tin back in November. I've just only used it on top of things to date. We'll see. I still like Blackfire. I'm sure I'll still use it.



I like NXT, but to me it doesn't have that everything-falls-off-the-car-with-a-wash feel that Blackfire has, and for me I never got the kind of durability out of it I can get from #16 or Blackfire, though it wasn't bad.



But mainly, NXT has that hyper-glossy look that while certainly impressive, feels a bit like cheating. And it seems a tad artificial, much like the super-high-shine of some polymers. It no doubt looks good, but it doesn't have that all-over well rounded great look. The look of finesse, I guess, that I get with a real carnauba.



But yeah, we'll see. I'm itching now to try out the spit-shine method Nick has posted about, but perhaps the carnauba dream will wear thin with time. :)
 
I have nothing at all against #16 BUT if #16 is so durable, why did Meguiar's develop #26, #20, MPPP, and NXT?



Tom:cool:
 
I like the look of #16 but it can be a little tricky at times to work with.



I put it on my wifes windshield the other day,put it on super thin,everything looked nice and clear after buffing off.The next day the sun hit it and it started getting hot,next thing I know the windshield has a haze over it.I sprayed it with distilled water and wiped with a MF and it removed the haze.I've had this happen using #16 on black also.Everything looks great after buffing off then I pull it out in the sun it still looks good,then when the paint starts getting hot it starts to reskin itself and haze over in spots.I'm putting it on thin enough that I have a hard time seeing where I leave off.:nixweiss



Maybe that's why Meguiars develops different products for ease of use with the average Joe car wax guy.
 
Corey Bit Spank said:
Aurora, I like #16 too. I don't see a reason to use blackfire anymore. :(



How can you compare MPPP and NXT to #16? They are sealants, while #16 and #20 are carnubas.



I have yet to find a synthetic as durable as #16.
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So which is it ?
 
04BlackAV said:
I like the look of #16 but it can be a little tricky at times to work with.



I put it on my wifes windshield the other day,put it on super thin,everything looked nice and clear after buffing off.The next day the sun hit it and it started getting hot,next thing I know the windshield has a haze over it.I sprayed it with distilled water and wiped with a MF and it removed the haze.I've had this happen using #16 on black also.Everything looks great after buffing off then I pull it out in the sun it still looks good,then when the paint starts getting hot it starts to reskin itself and haze over in spots.I'm putting it on thin enough that I have a hard time seeing where I leave off.:nixweiss



Click to expand...



This is the *exact* same issue I run into with #16 as I have black and it gets hot here ( +90) , seems I have to wash it a couple of times for it to stop. I don't like QDing the haze off because I feel if its still reskining then its curing and a QD is altering it.



I like the look of the #16 as a topper but right now its shelved because I don't like the greasy haze I see for a few days.
 
tguil said:
I have nothing at all against #16 BUT if #16 is so durable, why did Meguiar's develop #26, #20, MPPP, and NXT?
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I haven't used #16 in a long time, but if you put it on thick and don't buff it right away--it's a real ball-buster to get off. The answer to your question is the others you mention are available as a liquid for ease of application, and they buff off easier (with the possible exception of #26 paste). And yeah, there are a jillion other differences/opinions--don't blast me on this, guys! I was just trying to give a short answer to tquil!
 
Aurora40 said:


So, I wasn't sure about using SFP or Speed Glaze. Interestingly, only Speed Glaze is recommended for use by hand on the bottle. ...I Speed Glazed the car. I think it might even be milder than SFP if you work it a bit since SFP takes a lot longer to break down by hand (or at least it sure seemed to) meaning you are abrading for a longer period of time even if the abrasive action is initially less.
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Aurora40, after reading the above, I'm interested to know how you would compare/contrast the use of SFP (#82), Speed Glaze (#80), and #9. Given your above scenario, why wouldn't you have just used #9 as a milder, hand applied alternative to #82?
 
Jesstzn...I've tried QDing the next day and it only smeared the oily haze around,like you said a good wash seems to be the only thing to clean it up.I too used it as a topper on black but didn't notice any hazing on red using #16 after finishing up polishing with #80.
 
Well, my car is garaged at home and garaged at work. I've never noticed any hazing, though I also don't have a black car. However, I almost always get some degree of hazing from Blackfire that's visible in the sun. It's not from heat, it's just product that didn't get buffed off all the way. It's not a terrible problem, but sometimes I want the car to look perfect when I'm done, not a few days after I'm done.



Things like MPPP and NXT and such are all different products. They look slightly different, apply different, and may last longer for some people who have different conditions than I do. And some may look better than others on different paints.



Astronomy, I don't own #9 and have never used it. I did compare/contrast #80/82 by hand in my post. The #82 was a bit harder to work in and move around. It dries up more than #80 which can make hand work difficult. The pad also gets kind of crusty/dusty. I think I would have needed several hand pads to do the car with #82 and it would have been more work. #80 by hand seemed quite mild. I know the scale says it's a 5 or something, but it really isn't bad. You can feel the abrasives in it against the paint, but they break down almost instantly. And it left the paint smoother and possibly glossier (they were very close in looks).
 
A few things that will win me back to Blackfire are:



- if crud doesn't just wash off easily from the lower rockers and such. Blackfire seems to make stuff just fall right off



- if water doesn't fly off the car like it does with Blackfire (#16 definitely beads like mad, though)



- if the look doesn't stay consistent for a month or so. Blackfire always looked good for a pretty long length of time before it doesn't look just-waxed anymore. Not sure how #16 will do, or if much of the current look is from the Speed Glaze.



But it sure is easier. We'll see. I may just start using everything, sealants/glazes/waxes, interchangably. I'm not sold on the "science" anymore, and really if it delivers results who the heck cares why it works? I mean, it's interesting to know why something works, but the important thing is that it does actually work. :)
 
Aurora40- I gave up on F for the reasons you've mentioned (though I still use it on some black trim). You might look into 4-Star UPP; I find it smilar to BF without so much hazing/smearing. *Very* slick, too, more so than the BF IMO. Just let it set up for a while before buffing it off.



Oh, and anyone looking for sealant-like durability in a carnauba oughta try Collinite. Not the *best* look, IMO, but it wears like iron.
 
Aurora40 said:
.... I may just start using everything, sealants/glazes/waxes, interchangably. I'm not sold on the "science" anymore, and really if it delivers results who the heck cares why it works?... :)
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Aurora40,



If we all did this with all of the stuff we have on hand, the vendors would go out of business. :D



Tom :cool:
 
Aurora40 said:


Astronomy, I don't own #9 and have never used it.
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Sorry, I figured anyone who had #80 & #82 would also have #9! Perhaps it would have been easier for hand app. than the #82 since it is labeled for that. I'm just trying to figure out where the #82 fits...because everyone seems to be using #80 instead.
 
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