Should have skipped the Flex?

Rob Tomlin said:
Wow, there are many things in this post that I completely disagree with, but I see Todd has already addressed most of them.
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You may disagree but its true. I went into a further detail in my second post and you should hopefully agree with that.



If you are one of the gifted rotary users who can use it like an extension to their own body then you will always say the rotary is better. However the large majority of detailers will get better results with a flex. For every gifted rotary user on Autopia there are 1000 hacks who hologram paint on every job they do.
 
TTWAGN said:
You may disagree but its true. I went into a further detail in my second post and you should hopefully agree with that.



If you are one of the gifted rotary users who can use it like an extension to their own body then you will always say the rotary is better. However the large majority of detailers will get better results with a flex. For every gifted rotary user on Autopia there are 1000 hacks who hologram paint on every job they do.
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No, I disagree with the notion that you have to be a "gifted rotary user who can use it like an extension to their own body" in order to get excellent hologram free results.



I am a rotary newbie. I've used foam cutting pads, foam polishing pad, foam finishing pads, and purple foamed wool, and I have yet to cause any holograms on the 3 cars that I have used the rotary on. I have used M105, SIP, and 106FF with the rotary, all with excellent results (despite the fact that the M105 is difficult to work with and has a large learning curve).



I certainly do not consider myself a rotary expert or a "seasoned pro" like Todd, yet I have still been able to obtain superb results, without holograms, with my Makita. I see no reason why others who have had experience with a ROB can't achieve the same results I have, especially if they take the time to read the threads here on how to use it.



Worked for me! :up
 
TH0001 said:
I disagree completely. A rotary is tool that is only limited by the user. In contrast with an oscillating machine, a rotary will break down the abrasives at a more even rate, over a uniform area, resulting in a more microscopically perfect finish.







Again I disagree completely but I will preface with my experience on the flex is limited. However, on harder paints or paints in terrible condition even a rotary at high RPM, wool pad, and aggressive compound can take a long time to remove the damaged paint. If it takes 5 or more passes of a compound and rotary I could only imagine how much longer it would take by something with far less working action.







On extermely soft paint DA action machines will install micromarring because of the uneven break down of the abrasives. A rotary is required for true perfection of these finishes based because of the more even rate of abrasive fracture (when used by a skilled user). Use a DA on soft Infiniti paint then wipe it with prepsol and you quickly see the damage installed by a DA on soft paint. A rotary will break down the abrasives further then a DA as well, which creates the potenital for a better finish. I should note that I don't have the experience with the Flex, but I would assume that it finishes better then a PC as well, because of the forced rotation.







I agree that in the hands of the average user the flex probably covers enough of a range to produce satisfactory results from most finishes. However in the hands of a skilled user, nothing will compete with a rotary.







I would rather have a tool that will allow me to take any finish to the highest possible level and that is a rotary. However, like you said, for the average user it may not be the best bet since it requires a lot of skill and learning experience to get maximum results.







A very interesting observation and another I agree with. A DA machine can absolutely finish down "defect" free with more agressive combinations of pads and polishes (you cannot finish a rotary hologram free with an orange pad but I have seen an orange pad finish to acceptable level's on a DA). However, the finish will never be a pure as a finish jeweled with a rotary, so it is always worth the time to (if you are going for the best possible finish) to finish with a rotary, finishing pad, and jeweling polish.
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Could not agree more. :goodjob
 
I've had a rotary for a while now and I'm not comfortable with some products with it - Megs 105 and SIP, however, they work great for others. Today, I used 1Z Intensive Polish on a foamed wool pad and felt like I could buff with the best of them. My comfort zone with a rotary needs a product that takes a couple of minutes from spreading to working to finishing clear. 1Z definitely does that and so do Menerna IP and FFII. I'm going to take somebody's advice, can't remember who - but thanks, and get the Megs Solo wool pads, I like the size and need a bit more cut, may get some 84-85 too.
 
Junebug,

So, back to the original premise of my thread...

You skipped the Flex in your progression, and are glad you did?

I'm trying to figure out if I should do the same, and all this learned input is helping me in my quest.
 
Jeff Laughhunn said:
Junebug,

So, back to the original premise of my thread...

You skipped the Flex in your progression, and are glad you did?

I'm trying to figure out if I should do the same, and all this learned input is helping me in my quest.
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I bought my flex way, way after my rotary and after my PC.

Great addition to the arsenal.
 
It's all about the dollar. I would like to have a lot more toys (sorry - tools) but with two kids it's tough. I wish I had a Flex at times, but then I get my game on with the rotary and I am so friggin happy that I forget all about Flex. If you want to skip and get a rotary - get some 1Z Intensive Paste and High Gloss Polish - the black bottles in the bodyshop line. Add some foamed wool and LC finishing pads and you will be buffing right along. These polishes like slow speed - they take their time and they finish very well. The rotary under these conditions is as safe as it gets, just be careful around trim and plastic bumpers and you'll be fine. For me, a PC and Makita are all I "need".
 
JuneBug said:
It's all about the dollar. I would like to have a lot more toys (sorry - tools) but with two kids it's tough. I wish I had a Flex at times, but then I get my game on with the rotary and I am so friggin happy that I forget all about Flex. If you want to skip and get a rotary - get some 1Z Intensive Paste and High Gloss Polish - the black bottles in the bodyshop line. Add some foamed wool and LC finishing pads and you will be buffing right along. These polishes like slow speed - they take their time and they finish very well. The rotary under these conditions is as safe as it gets, just be careful around trim and plastic bumpers and you'll be fine. For me, a PC and Makita are all I "need".
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Great advice there, JuneBug. That 1Z High Gloss is good stuff. http://www.autopia.org/forum/detail...05083-mini-review-1z-hochglanz-revisited.html
 
Thanks SuperBee, I'm going to try Megs 95 and their Solo wool pads - got to have something for the tough ones. Lucky for me, I don't get that many "tough" details, but like my old man always said - prepare for the worst and you'll never be dissappointed.
 
Buy a rotary. Take it out of the package when you get home (or shipped to your door). Put on a white pad. Grab a bottle of medium to light cut polish. Walk straight up to your car. Keep the RPM's down around 1000 and stay out of tight areas at first. But most of all, OVER COME YOUR FEARS!!!. I might be in the minority around here, but I figure if you are on this website then I am pretty sure you can figure out how to use a rotary. And for heavens sake, if you have a PC or flex, then you can definitely learn how to step up to a rotary. Give yourselves a little bit of credit. jeeessshh!!



I rarely ever get above 1800 RPMS and only on one or two occassions did I ever think I was even remotely close to burning through paint. Couple that with the fact that I have a rotary in my hands every stinking day and you get extremely low odds of a catastrophy.



I do have this warning though. If you are new to any kind of a polisher, I would NOT start out with a rotary. But this is about people that already have a PC. Keep this in mind. For the price of a Flex. You can have a rotary and a whole selection of pads. Maybe even a bottle of polish depending on where you get your new rotary.
 
fergnation said:
I do have this warning though. If you are new to any kind of a polisher, I would NOT start out with a rotary.
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And if you are, and have no machine yet, then what, flex all the way?
 
If I was starting out - I'd get the PC, this is assuming you want to start detail your car. Even after you do a few cars and decide to do this on the side or maybe full time, the PC has a place in the tool box, and with the right pads and polish - you can do as good as most, it'll just take you a bit longer.
 
fergnation said:
Buy a rotary. Take it out of the package when you get home (or shipped to your door). Put on a white pad. Grab a bottle of medium to light cut polish. Walk straight up to your car. Keep the RPM's down around 1000 and stay out of tight areas at first. But most of all, OVER COME YOUR FEARS!!!. I might be in the minority around here, but I figure if you are on this website then I am pretty sure you can figure out how to use a rotary. And for heavens sake, if you have a PC or flex, then you can definitely learn how to step up to a rotary. Give yourselves a little bit of credit. jeeessshh!!



I rarely ever get above 1800 RPMS and only on one or two occassions did I ever think I was even remotely close to burning through paint. Couple that with the fact that I have a rotary in my hands every stinking day and you get extremely low odds of a catastrophy.



I do have this warning though. If you are new to any kind of a polisher, I would NOT start out with a rotary. But this is about people that already have a PC. Keep this in mind. For the price of a Flex. You can have a rotary and a whole selection of pads. Maybe even a bottle of polish depending on where you get your new rotary.
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I agree with all of this.



JuneBug said:
If I was starting out - I'd get the PC, this is assuming you want to start detail your car. Even after you do a few cars and decide to do this on the side or maybe full time, the PC has a place in the tool box, and with the right pads and polish - you can do as good as most, it'll just take you a bit longer.
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Agree here as well.
 
TH0001 said:
I disagree completely. A rotary is tool that is only limited by the user. In contrast with an oscillating machine, a rotary will break down the abrasives at a more even rate, over a uniform area, resulting in a more microscopically perfect finish.













On extermely soft paint DA action machines will install micromarring because of the uneven break down of the abrasives. A rotary is required for true perfection of these finishes based because of the more even rate of abrasive fracture (when used by a skilled user). Use a DA on soft Infiniti paint then wipe it with prepsol and you quickly see the damage installed by a DA on soft paint. A rotary will break down the abrasives further then a DA as well, which creates the potenital for a better finish. I should note that I don't have the experience with the Flex, but I would assume that it finishes better then a PC as well, because of the forced rotation.
Click to expand...



Hm a bit off topic but what is the general consensus for Infiniti paint; I have heard some say it is a very soft paint and others say it is a pain to work with.
 
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