Sg
- Thread starter BoTuerk
- Start date
Accumulator
Well-known member
BoTuerk- Both shine and durability. Multiple coats of SG will definitely last longer than just one. Another durability-related advantage is that with more coats on there, the SG will better withstand the effects of claying (you won't have to re-apply after using clay to remove contaminants).
imported_bigltc
New member
Well said Accumulator!! I have a question for ya. I haven't done any exterior detailing since May of last year so it has been pretty much a year without doing any detailing other than a wash every week. Should I go ahead and clay, then AIO and SG? Or should I just clay, then SG?
AlphaSpread
New member
I'm not Accumulator, but if I were in your situation, Clay + AIO would be the absolute minimum prep I'd consider. I've always had better results using a cleaner or light compound, even on paints in good condition. Once a year, I use 3M FI-II and I'd estimate my SMR-ing frequency at 3x/year.
Don't buy into that line of thinking which seems to be so pervasive among certain non-abrasive glossy polymer users that abrasives are bad for your car.........or that you can layer coats indefinitely without ever hitting your car with a compound.
Don't buy into that line of thinking which seems to be so pervasive among certain non-abrasive glossy polymer users that abrasives are bad for your car.........or that you can layer coats indefinitely without ever hitting your car with a compound.
DETAILKING
New member
When it's time for spring cleaning and people ask me what kind of treatment I am going to do to my car, do you know what I tell them? That I won't know until the the day I do the job.............
An important aspect of detailing is knowing how to evaluate your paint and what products / methods are required for treatment. Most of this comes with time and experience.
I have become a fan of mild paint cleaners/cleansers, but I don't agree that polishing/compounding is required 1-2 times a year for the careful detailer. The only time I grab an abrasive product stronger than say PPCL or GEPP is when I am trying to remove swirls, or scratches. I don't understand how people get on a schedule of using moderate abrasive products, when they have no idea whether or not the paint is going to require them 3,6, or even 12 months from now.
It's too general of a statement to say that abrasives are BAD for your paint, but it is important to understand their function. Remember, every time you use a product strong enough to remove your scratches and swirls, you are thinning down your clearcoat. You are also removing scratches, but putting finer ones in your paint (or marring). Just take a pocket magnifier and you will see what I am talking about. The use of the right products (diminishing abrasives) and techniques can reduce this, but the first statement still holds true.
Remember, today's paints are thin (and sometimes soft). I make it a practice, to always use the mildest product I can to tackle the job at hand. So next time you grab some fine cut polishing compound for nothing more than the sake of doing it, remember how much time you spent testing and picking MF towels, wash mitts, drying techniques, CD scratch tests,etc,etc,etc......
An important aspect of detailing is knowing how to evaluate your paint and what products / methods are required for treatment. Most of this comes with time and experience.
I have become a fan of mild paint cleaners/cleansers, but I don't agree that polishing/compounding is required 1-2 times a year for the careful detailer. The only time I grab an abrasive product stronger than say PPCL or GEPP is when I am trying to remove swirls, or scratches. I don't understand how people get on a schedule of using moderate abrasive products, when they have no idea whether or not the paint is going to require them 3,6, or even 12 months from now.
It's too general of a statement to say that abrasives are BAD for your paint, but it is important to understand their function. Remember, every time you use a product strong enough to remove your scratches and swirls, you are thinning down your clearcoat. You are also removing scratches, but putting finer ones in your paint (or marring). Just take a pocket magnifier and you will see what I am talking about. The use of the right products (diminishing abrasives) and techniques can reduce this, but the first statement still holds true.
Remember, today's paints are thin (and sometimes soft). I make it a practice, to always use the mildest product I can to tackle the job at hand. So next time you grab some fine cut polishing compound for nothing more than the sake of doing it, remember how much time you spent testing and picking MF towels, wash mitts, drying techniques, CD scratch tests,etc,etc,etc......
Accumulator
Well-known member
ExplEddieBauer- As asjk07 said, clay+AIO is a good minimum. I just did our silver MPV (not REALLY detailed since last summer) even though the SG+wax was still beading. The AIO (applied by random orbital) took off some nasty stuff, even though I'd clayed beforehand. The pads definitely got dirty from SOMETHING the AIO was cleaning off. Surprised me, as the vehicle looked so good I was tempted to just wash and QD it.
What you might want to try is the clay+SG every other month or so, even if only on the panels that take a lot of abuse.
I'd only use a SMR if you really have to. As far as something stronger, I'm with DK on the constant use of abrasives. Many people do FINE with FI-II, etc. but, especially if you're planning to keep the vehicle for a long time, I'd say put up with some minor flaws/swirls and save your clearcoat. Or use something VERY mild like GEPC or Vanilla Moose to just "take their edges off". His suggestion to really INSPECT your paint and carefully choose the right product is right on the money.
What you might want to try is the clay+SG every other month or so, even if only on the panels that take a lot of abuse.
I'd only use a SMR if you really have to. As far as something stronger, I'm with DK on the constant use of abrasives. Many people do FINE with FI-II, etc. but, especially if you're planning to keep the vehicle for a long time, I'd say put up with some minor flaws/swirls and save your clearcoat. Or use something VERY mild like GEPC or Vanilla Moose to just "take their edges off". His suggestion to really INSPECT your paint and carefully choose the right product is right on the money.
AlphaSpread
New member
DETAILKING:
Very good points. I’ve read many of your older posts and I’m pretty impressed by your level of knowledge and experience. Definitely evaluate before automatically assuming what needs to be done. Also, only use what you’re comfortable with. If using a product like FI-II is worrisome, then consider less aggressive alternatives.
Quite honestly, I don’t remember how often I give my car a full once-over, but now that I think about it, perhaps it’s not as often as once a year. Maybe more like once every 1-2 years. What I DO remember though is how nice my paint looked after using it. The improvement in shine was much more than I could have ever hoped for from simply adding another coat of Z to a bunch of existing layers, even on a car that already had a helluvah shine.
I could be wrong, but I think one source of disagreement between you and I is that I’m getting the impression from you that an abrasive stronger than GEPC should only be used to remove swirls/scratches (If I’m making an incorrect assumption, then I apologize). Well, I feel that using a fine abrasive like SMR or FI-II not only fixes surface imperfections, it also really brings out the shine. Hence the name 'polish'. I’ve experienced this many times, even on cars where I didn’t think the shine could get any better. I’ve always held to the belief that the quality of your shine comes from the quality of your prep.
Also, I don’t believe a light application of FI-II removes excessive clear-coat (I apply it by hand....perhaps I should have mentioned that also in my initial post). Why? Because I don’t get any extraneous surface marring when using it, even when viewed with the aid of a loupe on a flat black car.
Using FI-II or SMR used to worry me also till I read the following post written by BradB.:
http://www.autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1765
“I do not use AIO on cars that do not need the kind of paint prep that AIO provides. I have applied SG by itself on brand new cars with excellent results.
Having said that, I also have improved the quality of even new car paint by using clay and Finesse It II and/or Pinnacle paint cleansing lotion in that order. I then will use the final wax/sealant of choice. AIO is a good prep but not as good as using specialized products. If convenience and speed is important to you, AIO will work fine.�
Since my car gets parked outside a lot, it really gets exposed to the elements....similar to the way a new car on the dealer lot would. Perhaps on a well maintained car that's garaged most of the time, there won't ever be a need to use anything stronger than SMR or GEPC.
Very good points. I’ve read many of your older posts and I’m pretty impressed by your level of knowledge and experience. Definitely evaluate before automatically assuming what needs to be done. Also, only use what you’re comfortable with. If using a product like FI-II is worrisome, then consider less aggressive alternatives.
Quite honestly, I don’t remember how often I give my car a full once-over, but now that I think about it, perhaps it’s not as often as once a year. Maybe more like once every 1-2 years. What I DO remember though is how nice my paint looked after using it. The improvement in shine was much more than I could have ever hoped for from simply adding another coat of Z to a bunch of existing layers, even on a car that already had a helluvah shine.
I could be wrong, but I think one source of disagreement between you and I is that I’m getting the impression from you that an abrasive stronger than GEPC should only be used to remove swirls/scratches (If I’m making an incorrect assumption, then I apologize). Well, I feel that using a fine abrasive like SMR or FI-II not only fixes surface imperfections, it also really brings out the shine. Hence the name 'polish'. I’ve experienced this many times, even on cars where I didn’t think the shine could get any better. I’ve always held to the belief that the quality of your shine comes from the quality of your prep.
Also, I don’t believe a light application of FI-II removes excessive clear-coat (I apply it by hand....perhaps I should have mentioned that also in my initial post). Why? Because I don’t get any extraneous surface marring when using it, even when viewed with the aid of a loupe on a flat black car.
Using FI-II or SMR used to worry me also till I read the following post written by BradB.:
http://www.autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1765
“I do not use AIO on cars that do not need the kind of paint prep that AIO provides. I have applied SG by itself on brand new cars with excellent results.
Having said that, I also have improved the quality of even new car paint by using clay and Finesse It II and/or Pinnacle paint cleansing lotion in that order. I then will use the final wax/sealant of choice. AIO is a good prep but not as good as using specialized products. If convenience and speed is important to you, AIO will work fine.�
Since my car gets parked outside a lot, it really gets exposed to the elements....similar to the way a new car on the dealer lot would. Perhaps on a well maintained car that's garaged most of the time, there won't ever be a need to use anything stronger than SMR or GEPC.
DETAILKING
New member
My cars are outside 24/7. When talking about products like finesse it II and Perfect it, I agree that once a year is not "excessive", although may not be necessary. I think you will find mild polishes like PPCL and GEPC will give you the polishing you are looking for and are a bit milder. 3M abrasives are excellent products, but have been known to cause hazing on certain paints when applied by hand. They are aggressive enough to not only clean the paint, but change the shape and remove clearcoat to hide swirls and scratches. If you need to remove clearcoat to get your shine back, your topcoat "sealer" is not protecting against oxidation the way it should be. Use the product that works best for you. Also, as abrasive products get harsher, they actually dull the paint (take sandpaper to your car.....etc,etc). What you are seeing is the oils that help lubricate the formulation for workability filling the and providing gloss. I always wash my car after using a polish to remove these oils so a proper inspection can be made before moving on to the wax/ sealant step. Again, nothing is gospel, just be aware of the products out there, and when they should be used and not used.
As for new cars, again, something one has to inspect. Some cars sit on a dealers lot for months and paint is not in excellent condition. Using a product like Finesse it II on a new car as part of your intial prep is not a bad thing if deemed necessary, but if you keep it protected with a quality wax/sealant, you shouldn't need to use it again for a while.
As for new cars, again, something one has to inspect. Some cars sit on a dealers lot for months and paint is not in excellent condition. Using a product like Finesse it II on a new car as part of your intial prep is not a bad thing if deemed necessary, but if you keep it protected with a quality wax/sealant, you shouldn't need to use it again for a while.
imported_bigltc
New member
Thanks for all the insights!! That's why I love this forum. I'll be home for spring break next week so that's pretty much what I'll be doing probably the last part of the week. Once I'm done with the exterior detailing, pics will be posted. I can't wait to work on it!!!