sell or keep?

W

wizardofahs

New member
mentioned some of this in my other thread, but basically i have a 2000 civic SI. My insurance is ~$4k a year. The car payment is just a tad more than the insurance... i need to cut back. I bought the car for around $18,500 i believe, with the interest and everything i think the loan was for around $22,000. I had a little fender bender, and the car is a coupe, so my insurance is really high. I was thinking about selling the car and getting something else.



The kelly blue book price for my car is $14,000 to a private party, and $12,000 trade in. I'd probably sell it to a private party, and pay off the loan (never done that though). Here's the thing... the car had hail damage which is currently being fixed. I talked to the guy last week and he said all the body panels will be repainted and replaced. I know that it usually lowers the value of the car (of course i bought it from a dealer after it was repainted (had overspraw) and at least one body panel (largest one) wasn't original... yet they didn't say anything). Since the car will basically have a perfectly straight body (no rock chips is rare in CO, plus a detail by me would make it more than perfect). keep the price in that range, or will it drop dramatically?



If i was going to get a new one it would probably be <$20k. If it was closer in price to my current car i'm thinking i'd have to get lower insurance. I was looking at a 96-97 bmw 328i (might of been 325i), and it looked like those are in the $16k-$18k price range. I'm thinking the insurance on a 4 door bmw thats 3 years older and has more safty features would be lower than the 2 door sports coupe thats in the list of top 3 stolen cars in the US (then again insurance doesn't seem to be logical at all....). I just want to be better off in the long run.



I was also looking at a subaru 2.5rs, which are around $15k and AWD (in colorado this helps).



I'm only 20, and in college, debt isn't too much of a concern, since i'm going to a really nice school, and majoring in Computer Science. I'd say i'm near the top of my class skill wise, so i should be able to land a decent job when i get out (if the economy picks up a tad). Thus a 60 month or more loan would be what i'd get. I just want to make things easier right now for my parrents, and save a few bucks so i don't have to take out as much for my student loans.
 
My insurance is ~$4k a year.
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:eek:



Wow. I'm no expert, but would think that insurance on a 3-series BMW would not be less expensive than that---or not enough to justify selling your car. Maybe the Subie would be a better bet...an RS will be less than a WRX......Personally, if I were in your position, I would buy the least expensive car that I could stand (with the lowest insurance rate). You won't be in college forever, and it may just make the next car seem that much better. :)
 
I just talked to my insurance people and a 94 325is coupe would lower it about $800 a year. But if i sold my current car and payed it off, and took out a loan for the new one, my payments could also drop rom $373 a month to ~$220 a month. That's pretty significant. Now it's just a matter of how much i can get for my SI, with the small accident (air bags didn't even come out). If i have $14,000 on the loan still to pay, and only get $12,000 is it a big deal? I figure i pay the $12,000 now and that covers my payments for a while. At least till i'm out of school and making $60k a year.



Also i'm not sure how hard it will be to find a 325is bmw with a stick in either red or black (or perhaps another color i like). Guess i'll keep searching.
 
Slackmeister said:
:eek:



Maybe the Subie would be a better bet...an RS will be less than a WRX......Personally, if I were in your position, I would buy the least expensive car that I could stand (with the lowest insurance rate).
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I only pay $700/year to insure my WRX which probably isn't much more than a 2.5 RS. I guess all of the safety features outway the extra horsepower. Anyway, I argree w/ Slackmeister, don't count on any future job for money. Wait until you actually have the job and get the cheapest car you can stand. You can always trade it in later.
 
Iconoclast said:
I only pay $700/year to insure my WRX which probably isn't much more than a 2.5 RS. I guess all of the safety features outway the extra horsepower. Anyway, I argree w/ Slackmeister, don't count on any future job for money. Wait until you actually have the job and get the cheapest car you can stand. You can always trade it in later.
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Wow... $700/year is CHEAP!! My WRX costs me $2300/year and I have no accidents or tickets (two tickets, but I did traffic school both times so no points taken from my license), but I'm only 21 and that kills it. From lurking around on the Subaru forums it seems like lots of really young kids are getting these cars and destroying them because they can't handle it... and insurance rates have suffered. When I bought my car in November 2001 I think they were basing the rates on the RS, since the WRX had just come out... but in the last year it's gone up over $1000 :(
 
If your car is in the shop getting paint and panels, it should be worth as much as any other car with similar mileage around you. Unless it has a salvage title or unfixed damage, there shouldn't be anything holding it back, IMO. Just make sure the work is top notch.



As for a different car, check with your insurance on any car you're considering and get a quote. The 2.5RS is a good buy for the mid teens, but if you're trying to reduce your outflow of $$, I'd go even cheaper while you're in school and buy up later. I'm partial, but get a MK2 MR2 for ~$8K or a MK1 MR2 for ~$3K. But, they're not great in snow unless you put snow tires on in the winter.



My $.02 :bounce
 
Hands down I got you guys beat for the highest Insurance I pay $6000 a year for my 2001 Tacoma. I had two accidents two years ago with in the same year , not my fault but I still got nailed for them. This year is the last year I have to pay that much only 2 payments to go.:D
 
so far i've concluded that i can probably save a bit of money. I should also be able to get for my SI what i have left to pay for it. So overall the change would save me. But since the SI is only a 2000 and still has a lot of warenty left, there is the costs of fixing.



I really like the 94-95 bmw 325is, but i hear they are expensive. I haven't heard anyone give figures other than saying that. I would have some extra money with the change, so i could sort of justfy that. ie if the brakes are gone, i might as well spend the extra $200 and get the performance breaks that i would upgrade to anyway. If the clutch goes, same thing. Basically i can keep my dream of moding it, while fixing it.



I hear stuff like water pumps on those are somewhat likely to go, anyone know how much something like that would cost? Are we looking at $250 expensive or $850 expensive (or more)? I hear they are pretty reliable, i just need 20k miles or so. After what i've gone through with this car i won't settle on a new one untill i'm sure it is mechanically sound (checked out by at least one mechanic). There always seems to be a surplus of little old ladies who have a car that's 5 years old with < 30k miles on it.



Maybe something like this
 
im sure an integra gs-r would be good in a 4 door. Heck, if i didn't get my 02 civic, i prolly would have gotten the 4 door integra gs-r. 4 doors are usually the cheapest on insurance.
 
Trust me... It doesn't make that much difference on the GSR. The way the insurance company looks at it a GSR is a GSR. My sedan is about as much as a coupe would have been. I got the sedan so I wouldn't be tempted to put as much money into modifying it. So far it has worked. :up



I was paying something like 160 or something per month for my Mustang. Single males under 25 get the worst rates. I got married and added a 4 Runner and my wife's Honda and my rates went down to 150 a month for all 3 cars. With my GSR and my wife's Accord (both 99s) we pay about 145 per month for both. When I turned 25 I was expecting a drop. Nope. It went down like 2 bucks a month. I wouldn't consider that a deal.



With insurance rates like the kind you have on your Si, I would suggest getting something slow and old. Any other car is going to break you. Why put your whole check into a car payment and insurance?? I can't imagine that one fender bender is making your rates that high. Maybe its your age... I dunno. Check around for different insurance companies maybe. I'm suprised you aren't still on your parent's policy. I think you can stay on with them till you are 21. That sucks that you have to pay that much in insurance. Sounds like you are on the ball with checking on insurance prices before you get too involved in shopping for a car.



Subies are probably going to be a bit lower because of the safety features. I was torn between the 2.5 RS and the GSR Sedan when I was shopping. The WRX wasn't out yet and wouldn't have been an option anyway. It finally came down to the looks. Jennifer didn't like the headlights on the subie. :rolleyes: She never was much of a subaru fan. I'll convert her someday. I grew up with Subarus. I've owned 3 of them. I do like my GSR now though. They didn't look better than the G3 Integra. Can't beat the motor in those cars either. Well, at least not economicly. :D
 
A few comments, if y'all don't mind:



(1) A repainted car is NOT worth the same as a car with factory paint, no matter how well it was done. Doesn't matter why the car was repainted, only matters that it was. Any half decent appraiser or used car manager can spot a repaint a mile away. Expect a value hit of at least $1000, maybe $2000. It really depends on supply/demand for the car. Add in previous accident damage and you're taking a real hit on value.



(2) I would not suggest a BMW or other European car for a college kid unless you have the $$ and the skills to keep it running. I do not see the logic in going from a super-reliable car like a Honda (the PERFECT college kid car if there ever was one) to a BMW which are notoriously expensive to fix. Generally speaking European cars are staggeringly expensive to repair and maintain. And you want to go from a newish Honda in fine condition to a BMW with almost 100K on the clock???? Bad, bad, bad idea. Real bad.



(3) I like the advice that suggests getting whatever you need to get you by and gets you thru college. Like every college kid in America, you are counting your chickens before they are hatched. Assuming a $60K/yr job right out of college is silly. The chances of that happening are slim. I see no logical reason to assume any more debt than needed while still in college. "Debt isn't too much of a concern" is the dumbest thing I've read all day but I guess its typical of college students financially subsidized by Mom & Dad National Bank.



I apologize for my tone but from my chair I see no sensible reason for getting rid of the Civic. I'm sure you're just bored with it and want a different toy. Hopefully you can keep your eye on the ball, get thru college, and maybe find a decent job somewhere and get established. By that time the Civic will need replacing and you can go thru this process again.
 
Those are some good points and I definatly have some thinking to do. I do like the civic, and don't want to just give it up, the only reason i'm considering doing so is because it's costing me around $700 a month. For a college kid with no current job (and 21 credits which makes it hard to have one) that is a lot of money. Thus if i can get rid of it and save myself 200+ bucks a month it would really help. I just thought that there are enough cars out there that i shouldn't need to just buy a beater to save the money, but i could find something i like that will still be less expensive.



I'm not saying debt is just something i can blow off. I have a credit card, but i only have it to build credit. Since i've had it it's been paid of every single month. My parrents were helping me out with school, but I decided to give them a little break and take out student loans to help with the funding. I've learned a lot about debt and heard the stories about how much trouble you can get in with it. But i also understand that i am not going to your average run of the mill community college for a degree in liberal arts. I know i'm not going to be making 60k right when i get out of school. When i made that comment i was thinking 2-3 years down the road after school. In that case it is somewhat probable, since that's what the statistics from my schools carreer center say students are making. Since I am definatly near the top of my class, I feel that seting such goals isn't way out of line. I have 21 credits this semester not because i have to, or i'm graduating early, but because there are classes i'm taking pretty much just for the fun of it so i can learn more about my area.



Last year when i was working i made $9k (plus some from my parrents) and did just fine. When i'm out of school I should have a job for at least $45k (thats the average starting salary in my field), which is quite a bit for a single guy with now wife, kids, house or anything to worry about. I know my spending will go up, but i'm also mature enough to know I need to budget that to pay off my college debt before i do anything else. That's why I chose to help my parrents out by going into debt, the sacrifice i'd have to make to pay off the loans are minimal compared to how it would help my parrents out.



I don't mean to sound like i'm arguing with you (anyone else hate how it's hard to express tone of voice when chating online?), i think your comments are very constructive and more than likely i won't get a car that is hard to maintain. Right now it's looking like i'll maybe get a subaru that's a few years old, which will still save me in insurance and car payments, or just get something really old and inexpensive (my roomate sugests a scout... they break often but repairs are easy and inexpensive, and you could pick up a new one for not to much at all). Thanks to everyone for the advice, that's why i like posting stuff like this here. People know a lot more about this stuff than i do, and are always willing to help.
 
Another route i'm looking at (thanks to NYD for the sugestion) is rather than lowering costs i can increase my income. I don't have the extra time or regularity in my schedule to hold a part time job, but spending one weekend detailing a month and i'd be able to make back around half of what i'm spending on the car.
 
I wouldn't say that european cars are very expensive to maintain. Also if you want a BMW and a very fun one take a look at the 318ti. They can be had for well under $15K, more like $10k. I have had mine since '99 and have not had any major repairs yet. I bought it with 50k on it and have 116K on it now. Most of my major expenses have been upgrades, koni shocks and new wheels. I mostly just make sure all the fluids are changed regularly, most important the oil.

This is my second bmw and I have 2 other Volvo wagons. Actually the bmw has been much cheaper than the two wagons.

My insurance is not that bad as well, only about $1800 a year here in eastern Pa. I used to live in NJ and it was only a little over $2k a year for the car.

The 6 cyl bmws are going to be more expensive, cost wise but the maintaince isn't that bad either. The nice thing about the Ti is that it doesn't have all the electronics that the 6cyl have that can go wrong. That is where things start to get a little more expensive.

If you have any questions on the 318ti let me know. The car is like a go cart. I love it.
 
Ok, Try to get my tone of voice, You sound like a spoiled brat who doesn't have the maturity to wait for what he can afford. You'll spend until you can't spend anymore and then claim bankruptsy. That's just what we need, another kid saying "They gave me a credit card and I just went overboard, what do you expect I'm just a kid?" And no, you don't sound mature.:sosad
 
Hey I know that was blunt but... I am very impressed by young men like RedCar Guy, he's a working guy, TALENTED WITH HIS HANDS, neat clean and orderly, and he doesn't WHINE. We need more young people like him. He's mature. Also we need more young kids willing to work for they want and parents to stop handing them everything. There was a father here on this site that was helping his son clean up a small Toyota I think. They also installed a new stereo and detailed the engine. Now I'm sure that young man helped his dad do all this and actually appreciates his vehicle.
 
im staying under my rents insurance until im about 22-23 years old. Right now i pay 86 bucks a month on my 02 civic ex coupe under my rents, but id probably be paying double if it was under my own name. It also pays to shop around on insurance. In your case, i wouldn't give up the car, but i definitely would shop around on insurance.
 
73 Grand:



But But BUT I Liiiiiiike to whine...why can't i whineeeee.........its so easy to whine and not actually ever do anything about a problem. If I whine hard enough someone else will get sick of it and make it alllllllllll better for me. So can i pleeeeease whiiiiiiine.











(sorry I had to)
 
Be opened minded about the job market. Like another post said "don't count your chickens before they hatch". I personally know many people with top notch MBA's and others with MIS majors who are unemployed that would jump at a job opportunity offering 45-65k. I don't want to discourage you but be careful taking on more debt for the market is saturated with unemployed, highly qualified, people.
 
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