sedan hp wars & high gas prices??
- Thread starter gnahc79
- Start date
Tasty said:
Do you think that people in the U.S. work harder than probably any other country to attain what they want? I think so. Were we the fattest and most gluttonest when this country was founded? I think not! It took hard work to build it to where it is today. People deserve the rewards of their hard work. If you think we're all to fat and gluttons, why not give it all up and live in a fine community, such as, say, North Korea. I'm sure the people there aren't nearly as fat and gluttonous, and I'm sure they just love it that way too!
The government needs to stay out of it. I don't need any politicians telling me that I can't drive a car that gets 5 or 10 mpg. If that's the case, we're all headed towards driving electric/hybrid slo-pokes that epitomize the definition of boring. And, if they are going to tell me what I have to drive, then why stop there. Why not regulate what food goes into my mouth, or what I can watch on tv, or how much fun I'm allowed to have, or.... Sure, the technology is there...it's there to put people to sleep while they get their 60mpg.
Some people live in a world of "what-ifs" instead of the here and now. What if gas was $15 a gallon? People will adapt as the reailty of the world changes, if it changes. Buying a 60 mpg slo-poke because gas *may* skyrocket is like going ahead and getting a pace maker just in case you have heart trouble.
imported_Amused
New member
TigerMike said:
Let me get you right...because you think the US is the hardest working country in the world, it is our right to pollute more than any other country, almost indiscriminately, and consume the highest percentage of the world's natural resources? You think the government should allow the general public to do and have whatever they want? Your argument speaks of one thing, pompous greed...and that's one of the characteristics that causes other countries to HATE americans. We are not better than others. We don't work harder than every one else...Australia ranked first in that category last year. We don't take pride in our work like the Japanese, we have unions that fight for more pay and less work/productivity. We may have succeeded in certain aspects as a nation, but we surely suck in others!
NO one likes the idea of the governement playing big brother, but if the world was run by the masses, we would destroy ourselves and the world at a disgusting rate. Ideally, the government would have the best interest of the nation and world, but it's obvious that's not always the case. Greed and corruption are more prevalent and visible than ever amongst our elected officials and I've lost hope that they'll do what's right rather than what's easy for us all. Regulations don't necessarily mean taking fun and thrill out of life. The Japanese auto industry regulated themselves for decades with their 280hp limit and they produced some of the most amazing production vehicles in the last 20 years. The technology is there and ready to be implemented for tighter emissions and MPG ratings while not sacrificing much thrill. I'd much rather have a lighter car with less ponies that will run circles around a laden beast with a big block. And FYI, the government already regulates our food, what's on TV, and what we drive...and they're doing a lousy job. The sad thing is if we were allowed to watch over ourselves, we as a nation would probably do it even worse, we individually don't have the responsibility for it all. Big government sucks, I don't want them meddling with my money or misrepresent my interests, but we need them to better look after the welfare of the nation and world with what they're already doing in my opinion. No need to expand their powers, they have plenty already, we just need them to step up and fulfill their end of the bargain and not sell us out.
BTW, sorry for dragging this thread so off topic.
Yes, the current hp war in our state of high gas prices is a bit confusing and unnerving. Two major players capitolizing on our vulnerability.
Danase said:
Exactly, I have a premium gas only car with it's supercharger..and to tell you the truth I rarely look at the price when I go to fill up. Its not because Im loaded and can afford it, trust me I wish I could
But I need to fill up, so Im going to have to pay the price...and it was my decision to purchase this vehicle because of the hp, options, and style of the vehicle. If I had to do it over again, I would still choose the vehicle I have. And for the boaters, I live in west michigan, and there is no lack of boaters because of gas prices this summer. It is crazy how many speed boats and all those pimped out race boats or huge yachts I see in the water.
Quote from Victory: "supercharged V6, better gas milege and more power. "
You bet!
I love my supercharged V6! I get around 22mpg if Im driving good....18 if I want to show off :nonoFujiFast said:
Don't know where you're at, but the air is fine here, have no pollution worries...
Did I say I think the gov't should allow people to do whatever they want? No. That's called anarchy, but I'm not much in favor of communism either. Did I state we are better than anyone else? No. Why do we consume more resources? Well, why do we have the biggest economy in the world? Why don't we decrease our production and consumption, so our economy shrinks, and therefore our massive donations to other countries dwindle as well. Wouldn't the world be better then? Our greed, as you put it, keeps the world afloat. Keeps people employed, so they can make us all our stuff that we are greedy for.
You can call it greed or whatever you like, I'd prefer it to call it my, and everyone's *right* as an American to be free and to choose freely. Whether you like it or not, American's are driven by greed. We are greedy for money, power, status, you name it. Why do people attend college? To make more money, to get more stuff! Why to people start companies? To make more money, to get lots of stuff, if all goes well. Why do people gamble and play the lotto (of which a lot of money goes to worthy causes)? Why do people buy anything they technically don't "need?" Why are we on a detailing site, spending thousands of dollars on car waxes, when the world is starving or kids right here in the US need basic school supplies to better educate the population? Greed? Pot calling the kettle black...we're all greedy, so don't act like you have everything you need, and nothing you ever wanted. Do you want a promotion at work? Why?
imported_Amused
New member
TigerMike said:
I'm not sure if you're just ignorant, or arguing for the sake of arguing with this statement.
TigerMike said:
Yes, everyone wants it better, everyone wants a little more. We all have ambition and strive to succeed in whatever we do. Without that desire and drive nothing would evolve, there would be no progress. I'm not challenging our freedoms, our right to want and have more. But while having more are we being responsible? Are we compromising other values for having more? Is more always better? I think we as a whole lack a little social responsibility. Yes, it is a luxury to be here on the boards, spending money on products to make our cars look nice, and guess who regulates those products so they aren't environmentally hazardous?
Please don't confuse ambition with greed...they're quite different. You'll be surprised how many people start their own business not out of greed, but for a challenge or for a cause or for sustaining a livelihood. I wouldn't equate success with greed either. Life isn't always about "me". Trust me, the "me" centric ideology isn't what makes the world go 'round, it actually causes more problems than you think.
TigerMike - I hear where you are coming from, but your viewpoints are what is leading this country down a slippery slope. We are quickly eroding our status worldwide with people that espouse beliefs such as yours. Just because we are the biggest economy in the world doesn't entitle us to all the resources. The U.S.'s way is NOT the only way and maybe not even the BEST way, it just happens to be what we do. I don't think any of us are saying this isn't a great place to live and we are lucky to have our freedoms. People always want to fly the flag in your face when you point out the faults of this country. The U.S.A. has a duty to the world, not just the other people and countries, but the planet itself, and our mentality in this nation is leading us away from what we really ought to start working toward. Major energy crises and other such things ARE coming. It is just a matter of when. Just because they aren't happening NOW doesn't mean we shouldn't prepare for them. Your argument about adapting when it happens holds absolutely no water, and that's the problem with the auto industry and government. They are too REactive instead of PROactive.
FujiFast - I couldn't agree more with what you are saying.
FujiFast - I couldn't agree more with what you are saying.
topnotchtouch
New member
FujiFast said:
FujiFast,
I do a gree with a lot of what you are saying but, if you look around you will find that our government is trying to find ways to make more efficient use of the fuel we have and to reduce our dependance on foreign oil. Currently the EPA is working with several manufacturers on a new type of Hybrid. It is a hydraulic hybrid that stores power by using hydraulic pressure rather than storing it electrically like a lot of current hybrids do. The hydraulic hybrid is said to be much more efficient than the electric hybrids. I do believe UPS is currently testing several trucks with this system. Ford is rumored to be releasing F-series trucks also using this technology around 2008. I believe Ford is saying that an F-250 using this technology can achieve 60 mpg.
http://www.epa.gov/oms/technology/420f05006.htm
This is just one project, there are others.
imported_Amused
New member
rjstaaf said:
Oh I understand there are a lot of research projects going on to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels and I'm definitely encouraged by it all. I'm just a little peeved that the government doesn't regulate the current state of emissions with a tighter fist(especially with SUVs) and up the mileage standards. Until these other technologies become more mainstream and affordable, they need to step it up a little. It's even more critical now with this oil crisis which doesn't seem to have an end with all the fears of terrorism and nuclear procurement so front and center.
Hey, I won't deny that I would hate to drive a dumpy hybrid, but giving up 20-30hp for a more environmentally friendly car isn't unreasonable...especially when lighter stronger materials are available. I don't think the thrill and wow factor will be impacted.
Ok, here's a question...with the desire to go fast, instead of going with bigger engines why haven't manufacturers gone the other way, dropping weight? For example, a lighter and stronger metal to increase the power to weight ratio or some sort of optimized frame design. Is it an R&D/engineering or cost restriction? Or both?
Tasty said:
Well, we're just going to have to agree to disagree I suppose. I believe those that want and work hard to take away civil liberties and freedom of the people are the ones who are very dangerous to us all, and the country. The country was founded on freedom, not supression of freedom and rights. I know for a fact there are certain parts of the government system that long for the day when they can control our every move and decision, so we are completely dependent on the government itself. You're right though, there are plenty of countries that hate us, as there are many that are run by communist leaders, who hate the ideal of freedom of the people.
Again, I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree on preparing for future energy crisis. I wish I could predict the future with as much certainty as some of you. One such instance... I think about a time back decades ago (long before I came around), when people were preparing for a nuclear war, and many built shelters in their homes and whatnot. Well, in as much as people prepared, it never happened. Not saying an energy crisis is or isn't going to happen, but again I live right now, and see no immediate threats to my lifestyle, or a need to modify anything based on what-ifs.
As far as the pollution comment I made earlier, yes it was more sarcasm than anything. But, I'll say this...I stand more of a serious threat in my "daily" life to cigarette smoke than pollution from industry or automobiles. Not knocking smokers...just stating a fact.
TigerMike said:
TigerMike, this is exactly the reason why the government needs to play a larger role. It's not about infringing on our rights and freedoms, it's about the government being able to look at where our country is headed on a global scale. It's difficult for a single person to care about emissions, regulations and the like. Why? IMO it's because the average person for the most part can't implement any policy change by himself. Also, these kind of changes may take more than a generation to show results. Why would I care about the environment 80 yrs down the road? The government has the power to make policy and it's their responsibility to do so with the public's interest in mind.
I think some of the viewpoints on here are just things that are so ingrained that, like I said before, it will take the bomb blowing up in our face before we take notice. It's not hard to notice that people don't care about emissions and gas prices. Just look around you on your daily commute on the freeway and see all the SUVs and trucks with ONE driver in them headed downtown. I myself was part of the problem. Until recently I drove a 350 cubic inch V8 to work. I carpooled with one other person, but I was still part of the masses with my gigantic engine that I didn't really need. Again, TigerMike I see what you are saying and we can agree to disagree. It's just that I can see a point in the future when we will all look back and say, "What the hell were we thinking?"
This is only one small issue on a global scale that needs to be dealt with. It's weird how the older I get the more I care about world issues and what's being done about them. I remember when all I cared about was what kind of beer to get for Friday night.
This is only one small issue on a global scale that needs to be dealt with. It's weird how the older I get the more I care about world issues and what's being done about them. I remember when all I cared about was what kind of beer to get for Friday night.
I agree and disagree with some of each of the lines of thought presented above. However, it is my strong opinion that trying to depend on the federal government to resolve ANY issue other than national security will not result in progress but in most instances will lead to nothing. "The most terrifying words in the English language are: I am from the Federal government and I am here to help."
topnotchtouch
New member
FujiFast said:
I think we can all agree that the current financial state of the US auto industry is not good. I know it seems like the government is not regulating them but, imagine the financial burden on the US auto industry if they had to scrap a lot of current models and develop new engines and technologies to meet much stricter guidlines. The government has to balance the need to reduce our burden on foreign oil with the financial burden too quickly tightening emissions and fuel economy standards might place on our ailing auto industry. I too would like to see the pace quickened but, not if more people have to be laid off in order for the manufacturers to be able to afford to do it....
imported_themightytimmah
New member
I think gas mileage should stay the way it is - a personal choice. Premium is 3.00 a gallon around here, and if you wanna play, you gotta pay. If I as a consumer would rather have a few more MPG than a few more HP, there are plenty of companies willing to sell me a solution. The gas crisis is in and of itself a self-regulating problem - as prices rise, demand will drop (more fuel efficient cars, less driving, etc).
It's not the government's job to tell me whats good for me. Personally, I feel that the freedom to make decisions, even bad decisions, is worth fighting for. I fully endorse wars over natural resources to protect our way of life, and I personally see nothing wrong with telling Europe (and the rest of the world) to go screw. They've made their choices, and we've made ours.
P.S. Yes, I know that I espouse the "Ugly American" worldview that much of the world hates. Sadly, this is a "tragedy of the commons" issue that is very difficult to find a compromise on. My personal view is that for every gallon America saves, some other country is going to use. Oil is going to run out sooner or later, might as well enjoy it while you can, because there is no way that you're going to see voluntary usage caps on China or India.
It's not the government's job to tell me whats good for me. Personally, I feel that the freedom to make decisions, even bad decisions, is worth fighting for. I fully endorse wars over natural resources to protect our way of life, and I personally see nothing wrong with telling Europe (and the rest of the world) to go screw. They've made their choices, and we've made ours.
P.S. Yes, I know that I espouse the "Ugly American" worldview that much of the world hates. Sadly, this is a "tragedy of the commons" issue that is very difficult to find a compromise on. My personal view is that for every gallon America saves, some other country is going to use. Oil is going to run out sooner or later, might as well enjoy it while you can, because there is no way that you're going to see voluntary usage caps on China or India.
imported_Amused
New member
rjstaaf said:
You're an optimistic one, Bob! :laugh:
rjstaaf said:
Unfortunately, I think this is unavoidable. We all know GM's situation. I don't think they will last much longer without some serious cuts in headcount.
Obviously change isn't going to happen soon, most standards have been set for the next 4-5 years if I'm correct. If they take the leap and aim significantly higher in the next round of standards, I'd be happy...well encouraged
. The real kicker is that SUVs, which take up a hefty chunk of what's on the road these days, aren't subject to the regulations cars are held to and they spit out a much higher concentration of exhaust pollutants. What's up with that 
Well, once China hits its stride in development/expansion, the oil crisis will really start to blow up. When we begin paying what the people pay in the UK($7/gal regular) I think our feelings on this subject will all change.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
qballjr13 said:
I'm too tired to read this whole thread right now, so I don't know if someone else answered this...but, yes, you are wrong. Small throttle openings incur what are known as pumping losses, from pulling high vacuum on the intake manifold. Engines run most efficiently at higher throttle openings, which the lower-powered V6 would run at. That was part of the promise of CVT's, that you could use a small engine and run it wide open (and at the same RPM) almost all the time, by continuously varying the transmission ratio. BTW, a "few more" MPG is really quite a high percentage improvement from an engineering standpoint.
themightytimmah said:
Wow. I can't believe you actually spout that stuff and buy into it. Amazing. Once again this is the problem with this country. We think we're the $hit and everyone else can pi$$ off. So not true. If you think it's a good thing that young men and women are dying so you can burn more gas then you need to do some serious rethinking on your beliefs.