sealing with a carnuaba not a polymer
- Thread starter III
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a.k.a. Patrick
New member
John, you know me better....I really dont think the Carnaubas "seal"....but more or less kind of lay there...Where as poly's actually bond to the surface. My vote definetely goes out to the Poly's....(And I usually dont top with Carnaubas either, i feel Polys have enough to offer)
John, check this ongoing thread....excellent information....here
John, check this ongoing thread....excellent information....here
Patrick, thanks for the link. Interesting that you don't top your sealants with carnuaba products. You don't think your missing that wet/deep look?
Also, another way to look at my original question would be this:
If I, or whoever, waxes about once every 2 months, what's the purpose of having durability with a polymer? Who cares right? I mean if I had my choice of durability or having that wet/deep look, I would pick the wet/deep look. Why not skip the durability part and seal with a carnuaba after you polish.
Also, another way to look at my original question would be this:
If I, or whoever, waxes about once every 2 months, what's the purpose of having durability with a polymer? Who cares right? I mean if I had my choice of durability or having that wet/deep look, I would pick the wet/deep look. Why not skip the durability part and seal with a carnuaba after you polish.
I don't use carnauba with sealants. The carnauba should go on a properly cleaned and prepped paint surface. I have used polishes (as a middle step after the deep clean) with carnauba, with the polish being specially formulated to work with a carnauba wax. Too many different types of products placed under a true carnauba will compromise the razor sharp resolution a carnauba is capable of developing.
I believe you could still feasibly obtain a shine topping a sealant with a carnauba, but it is the crystal clear resolution that you are really after, that you may be robbing yourself of if you use several different types of polymers in addition to the carnauba wax. The carnauba, in order to show its natural coating and resolution abilities, IMO should bond as close to the actual paint surface as possible.
I would top off a polymer sealant with a synthetic finish polish instead of a carnauba, if it were left to me.
I believe you could still feasibly obtain a shine topping a sealant with a carnauba, but it is the crystal clear resolution that you are really after, that you may be robbing yourself of if you use several different types of polymers in addition to the carnauba wax. The carnauba, in order to show its natural coating and resolution abilities, IMO should bond as close to the actual paint surface as possible.
I would top off a polymer sealant with a synthetic finish polish instead of a carnauba, if it were left to me.
III said:
once every 2 months? for me, it's usually once a month, or even less if i'm antsy!
but i was under the impression that a polymer sealant has a different look than a caranuba wax. i think a ploymer sealant was suppose to have a nice shine and reflections, while caranuba wax has that wet/deep look. some people like a little of both. it's a personal choice.
i also was under the impression that caranuba waxes don't last too long, like 4 weeks at the most, that it can disappear due to high temperatures, etc. i know this varies on a lot of different factors (environment, washing technique, etc etc). so for some people, the polymer sealant provides a bit of peace of mind that their car's paint is being protected. but i say: if your aren't worried about durability, are willing to re-wax every so often, and just love the look that a caranuba wax can give you, then by all means, go for it!
imported_memnuts
New member
III said:
With today's products, both sealants, synthetic waxes, and even so-called 100% waxes, one should get decent durability. The wet and depth look you are seeking is developed during the Prep. Prep to the final appearance you desire and your final choice of protectant should only be determined by the durability one needs.
Small experiment. Take a non-prepped panel and apply a carnauba type protectant. Take a anally prepped panel and apply a sealant. Which looks deeper, richer, wetter and has a better color hue? The prep side. This also implies in the reverse. What this experiment shows is that the final topping will not maximize the visual features one desires. Waxes give a little bit more margin for error in Prep but still can not completely overcome a bad canvas in which it is painted on. With sealants one must error towards over-zealous discretion when deciding that the finish is at its maximum visual clue end-points.
What the benefit for all this extra prepping for a sealant? Doing it less often. :xyxthumbs
a.k.a. Patrick
New member
III said:
John, personally, i have never really been able to notice the difference between the two, I actually give the edge to a polymer. Todays Poly products give very rich multi phase appearances to paint, I just dont really waste my time with Carnaubas. Unless I have a dust issue. I think you can have both durability, and wet/depth, and as blkZ28Conv said, its really all about whats accomplished in your step prior to sealing anyway. As for durability, i cant see where a carnauba even comes close. I get at least twice the durability with a Poly as oppossed to a wax. (8wks) Im talking true durability, and in my book, thats what it feels like. Sure, it may bead decently for 4 weeks after that, but who cares about beading, if it doesnt feel protected.
I think you can have the best of both worlds John, my fav's go to Blackfire, Platinum, and Wolfgang, in that order of durability and looks also....
I have to agree with Patrick. While carnaubas do tend to have a somewhat deeper, richer look than sealants, the differences aren't real big. Straight on, there is little difference. Where you do see some difference is when looking at the paint at an angle.
For me, Poorboy's EX w/carnauba is a great comprimise between the two. Very carnauba looking with good durability. I *can* see a difference between EX and EX-P so I mostly prefer EX on dark colors and EX-P on light colors and most metallics.
When I use a carnauba on a customer's car, I use Souveran on red and black garage queens and #16 or Carnauba Moose on daily drivers.
On my own car, I do top sealants with carnaubas since I am totally anal about my car and getting a 2-3% improvement in appearance matters.
For me, Poorboy's EX w/carnauba is a great comprimise between the two. Very carnauba looking with good durability. I *can* see a difference between EX and EX-P so I mostly prefer EX on dark colors and EX-P on light colors and most metallics.
When I use a carnauba on a customer's car, I use Souveran on red and black garage queens and #16 or Carnauba Moose on daily drivers.
On my own car, I do top sealants with carnaubas since I am totally anal about my car and getting a 2-3% improvement in appearance matters.
There are larger differences in terms of clarity and resolution when you compare typical waxes and synthetic polishes with higher content carnauba waxes. I did not think so years ago until I upgraded to a higher quality carnauba wax. I could not believe what I was seeing after I tried this wax and did comparisons.
From long distances and when looking at less than good photographs you will not be able to tell a difference. If you were to take a very good digital photo and compare with similar paint surfaces, then the difference is more apparent.
From long distances and when looking at less than good photographs you will not be able to tell a difference. If you were to take a very good digital photo and compare with similar paint surfaces, then the difference is more apparent.
imported_YouGottaBeLeaf
New member
Carnubas aren't neccessary as a topper. I like the way FMJ (a pure polymer sealant) looks on my car but I top it with #16 because polymer sealants attract a ton of microdust. My area is fairly new so there's that fine dust all over the place that doesn't stick to carnubas.