Sealant Noob! Thinking Zaino but...

[Scottwax]

Scottwax



Can you share your wisdom and enlighten some out there on the use of paint cleaners/polishers on new vehicles. Many people here believe that products like Poli-Seal and ZAIO are so abrasive that they will scracth up a new car. I have gotten into this discussion before with others, but would like the opinion of a very experienced pro. Also, I mention it here because I feel that it would serve as a good reference.

Most people here on Autopia know the difference between the very mild abrasives in an AIO vs the strong abrasives in a compound. If you are talking about customers, you just have to explain to them that the abrasives are very mild and to get the best possible shine, you do have to level the paint using an abrasive product. You just have to make them understand that the amount of clear being removed is very minimal.

 

[KnuckleBuckett]

Very minimal and very necessary.

 

[David Fermani]

Hi,



I purchased last week a new Audi A3 in Lava Grey. This is my first new car and I want to keep it looking that way. I have been doing a lot of reading and have a pretty good understanding of what detailing my car is going to require. Now I want to start off slow and not go out and buy a $80 kit. I am looking for durability with ease of maintance. I also don't have a PC so its gona be all by hand.



My plan so far is to:



Wash: Turtle wax platinum (I've bought it before coming to the site)

Clay: What I can get cheap.

Seal: Here is where the problem lays.



The paint is brand new so I dont think a full polish is needed, correct me if i'm wrong.

You're right.

If a vehicle is brand new, why are people suggesting paint cleaners? The only cleaning that needs to be done is is washing & claying, not polishing. Unless there's actual scratches/micromarring noticed in the finish, we shouldn't assume the dealership screwed it up. It may be a touch of overkill.

 

[wannafbody]

I'd reccomend either ZAIO, Prime or Colorx. Even if it is new you don't know for sure how long it has been sitting and exactly where and in what conditions.

 

[David Fermani]

Even if it sat in the rain and snow, that doesn't mean you have to use a paint cleaner to prepare the surface. I'd bet there's contaminants, but clay will take care of that.

 

[Scottwax]

You're right.

If a vehicle is brand new, why are people suggesting paint cleaners? The only cleaning that needs to be done is is washing & claying, not polishing. Unless there's actual scratches/micromarring noticed in the finish, we shouldn't assume the dealership screwed it up. It may be a touch of overkill.

I have yet to see a new car that doesn't benefit from a light polishing prior to wax or sealant. AIOs are very minimally abrasive and have chemical cleaners that do a great job removing anything that got on the paint between the assembly line to your driveway. You buy a car that has been sitting on a dealer's lot for 3 months, it is going to need at least a light polish.

 

[David Fermani]

Scott - I think there's a few variables to consider here. If a vehicle sat on the lot unprotected for 3+ months, then yes, a polish will help remove the minor oxidation that might be present. My focus/question is the *new* finish that has no oxidation/scratches (i.e. no condition). A cleaner/polish/glaze will add gloss, but will that improvement deminish/taper off after a few washes and you'll be left with the same finish you would have had it you just LSP'd it from the get go? I see your point with the finish benefitting, but is it worth the extra effort(for some people) for just a temporary improvement? Did those new vehicles that you polished & protected retain that exact look 30+ days down the road after a few washes? Or did they look a tiny bit different? I wonder if the LSP by itself will make it look better longer that the polish? Maybe it's too late and I can't think straight right now. I could be wrong? :nervous: :think:

 

[wannafbody]

Good quality AIO's are so mild there isn't any reason not to use them. The mild cleaning ability is always a plus. Funny thing is I've clayed a hood and gotten some gunk off it and it felt smooth but then went over the same hood with ZAIO on a microfiber applicator by hand and ended up with a somewhat dirty applicator.

 

[Scottwax]

David-if you are using a sealant, a good AIO type product (not an oily glaze) will help the sealant bond better and the improvement the AIO gives is sealed in by the sealant.

 

[3puttjay]

Lots of good advice from some respected names here on Autopia. Here's my 2c; Since it is nearly winter, I would get some Collinite waxes and slap on 2 coats of 845 or 476S. Either should last till next spring when you can decide on Zaino, Jeff's Werkstatt, Ultima, etc..... for your next purchase. The Collinite waxes are usually under $20 and have a pretty good rep on this site. Good luck and welcome to Autopia.

 

[DesioMedia]

'Today I noticed that there was a little sticker on the lower left side of a windshield with the tephseal logo on it. It seems as though tephseal is a dealer detailing company. My car was a show room model so I can guess that has been maintained. Also my deal offers free lifetime details. \r\n\r\nWould this info change my plan of:\r\nWash\r\nClay\r\nPrime Strong\r\nAcrylic Jett'

 

[imported_memnuts]

Lots of good advice from some respected names here on Autopia. Here's my 2c; Since it is nearly winter, I would get some Collinite waxes and slap on 2 coats of 845 or 476S. Either should last till next spring when you can decide on Zaino, Jeff's Werkstatt, Ultima, etc..... for your next purchase. The Collinite waxes are usually under $20 and have a pretty good rep on this site. Good luck and welcome to Autopia.

Excellent suggestion about about not fully detailing a new or old "daily driver" just prior to winter use.

Your second point about an inexpensive purchase now to be followed by another in the Spring is IMO not necessary. Purchase the LSP of choice now (Zaino, JW, etc) and use again after the Spring Full-Prep. The final $$ results will be less expensive in the long run. All the products mentioned above require only minimal prep, a good wash, for perfect bonding and winter durability.



In terms of cleansing or polishing a new vehicle. I have rarely seen a delivered vehicle that met "my" standards for paint presentation. They all required some TLC.

 

[Bigpoppa3346]

I have yet to see a new car that doesn't benefit from a light polishing prior to wax or sealant. AIOs are very minimally abrasive and have chemical cleaners that do a great job removing anything that got on the paint between the assembly line to your driveway. You buy a car that has been sitting on a dealer's lot for 3 months, it is going to need at least a light polish.

+1.



Use an AIO type product (non-abrasive) after claying on a new car, and you will likely get some dirt on the pad/applicator. When you skip this step you seal this in, and it will inhibit the bonding of a wax/sealant.



The last thing you need in the winter is an LSP that is dead in mid-January because it didn't bond. If you have your heart set on Zaino, I would suggest some ZAIO, Z18 clay and Z2PRO(no ZFX). Should last you through winter.



If you want to go the cheaper, OTC route, Megs Color-X followed by Collinite 845 should get you through winter without much of a problem.

 

[howareb]

Thanks, this is the type of discussion that I wished to get started. Right now I am just soaking it up (even if I have to take a couple of punches). In the end it is about getting a good base knowledge from all of you about AIOs and the new car, so that others may benefit on how to properly prep a new car.



I think that 3puttjay had a good suggestion about prepping for winter. It will give you time to think about what you want to do for spring, and it is relatively cheap to accomplish.



Good luck.

 

[Accumulator]

I agree that even brand-new vehicles can benefit from the use a paint cleaners/polishes.



I've taken delivery of recent production, in-the-plastic units and even those cars visibly benefited from a good going-over. That's leaving aside the fact that a lot of cars (including my Audis) have out-of-the-way areas that a) aren't cleared and b) have a rough, dirt/moisture retaining paint texture. Polishing these areas and then LSPing them helps them stay clean and corrosion-free. Yeah, you really can make most any car better than showroom new



I bet that most people don't take 'em in-the-plastic, and IME it's *VERY* rare for a dealer to remove the transit film without either leaving some adhesive residue, or, all too often :sad: inflicting some marring. Of the dozens of new vehicles I've purchased, only *two* were properly prepped (and that includes cases where the only prep was removing the transit film). And the guy who did those quit detailing for the dealer (Stoddard) when he finished grad school.



On the subject of winter-prepping a driver, I can go both ways. I did the Blazer properly before the bad weather hit and it came through last winter just fine. I can't help but wonder if it woulda stayed as nice had I *not* done the full polishing/etc. job :nixweiss



But OTOH, unless you can avoid inducing marring when you wash, yeah, it's just wasted effort, and I suspect that most vehicles need a little polishing come spring.

 

[Raz5219]

I agree with what all the pros are saying also. A brand new car benefits from claying, AIO and then sealant. THis is exactly what I did for my BMW when it was 3 months old, and the paint was much cleaner and smoother than before. Clay and AIO do no harm to the paint and can only help IMO.



Since winter is about here, I'd go with either Collinite 476S, Werkstatt Jet Trigger or FK 1000P.



I'm going with FK 1000P topped with Collinite 476S. Kind of like this!

 

[howareb]

:funnypost



I like that pic!! How ingenious.

 

[KnuckleBuckett]

I agree with what all the pros are saying also. A brand new car benefits from claying, AIO and then sealant. THis is exactly what I did for my BMW when it was 3 months old, and the paint was much cleaner and smoother than before. Clay and AIO do no harm to the paint and can only help IMO.



Since winter is about here, I'd go with either Collinite 476S, Werkstatt Jet Trigger or FK 1000P.



I'm going with FK 1000P topped with Collinite 476S. Kind of like this!

I very recently tried the 1000 Hi-temp on my LS430. Boo hiss. I found it to be unremarkable in every way. Even the durability seemed weak to me. I had completely washed and clayed, applied three coats of the 1000 with a new sponge, about 10 hours apart - removing haze with new MF towels. It reminded me of the Turtle wax of old. Waste of $$ for me.



I have since switched to the Ultima line (with a little Sonus) and have been very happy.



Good luck!!

 

[Thomas Dekany]

I very recently tried the 1000 Hi-temp on my LS430. Boo hiss. I found it to be unremarkable in every way. Even the durability seemed weak to me. I had completely washed and clayed, applied three coats of the 1000 with a new sponge, about 10 hours apart - removing haze with new MF towels. It reminded me of the Turtle wax of old. Waste of $$ for me.



I have since switched to the Ultima line (with a little Sonus) and have been very happy.



Good luck!!

I was reading city forums.com recently and someone from another state is thinking about moving to vermont. Wants to know if the roads are plowed well or not.



One vermonter said: city/state/is doing a terrible job and the roads are terrible when snowing. The next reply was the exact opposite.



How can that be? One of them has to be telling a lie.



In this case, I could see the lack of durability, although around here lsps don't last as long as in lets say Texas (Scottwax) but #1000 is an exception. What is interesting is that you didn't mention that 1000 was hard to remove, which is what I can see would and should be an issue. Even G35stilez had an issue with removal. His reasoning for not liking 1000. I apply it with a pc so it isn't an issue for me.



But to say that it was unremarkable in every way???



The finish it leaves behind is remarkable to say the least. Not to be impressed with that ""extra coat of clear"" appearance???



It sounds to me like you have something against it and just want to put it down.



PS: I'll buy the can from you because I am just about out.



Will you sell it to me?

 

[KnuckleBuckett]

I was reading city forums.com recently and someone from another state is thinking about moving to vermont. Wants to know if the roads are plowed well or not.



One vermonter said: city/state/is doing a terrible job and the roads are terrible when snowing. The next reply was the exact opposite.



How can that be? One of them has to be telling a lie.



In this case, I could see the lack of durability, although around here lsps don't last as long as in lets say Texas (Scottwax) but #1000 is an exception. What is interesting is that you didn't mention that 1000 was hard to remove, which is what I can see would and should be an issue. Even G35stilez had an issue with removal. His reasoning for not liking 1000. I apply it with a pc so it isn't an issue for me.



But to say that it was unremarkable in every way???



The finish it leaves behind is remarkable to say the least. Not to be impressed with that ""extra coat of clear"" appearance???



It sounds to me like you have something against it and just want to put it down.



PS: I'll buy the can from you because I am just about out.



Will you sell it to me?

Oh man. No. I have nothing out for them!! I was really hoping for a great product! That is why I kept adding coats. I just couldn't believe that the results were so (IMO) sub par. I simply expected far better and much longer lasting results.



I thought it buffed off just fine. Especially after the first coat. No real issue there. However, I did not like how annoying it was to get out of crevices and off of black trim though. Yikes!



I know for a fact that everyone has personal preferences about their waxes and sealants this one must not have worked out for mine. It can't be so bad, as there are alot of very positive reviews for the stuff out there. Just not any from me. :nixweiss



It is nearly a full can. I keep the can and the new (except for the above use) applicator sponge in a sealed zip-lock bag. I would be glad to send it out to you. PM me your info and you can Paypal the shipping when I get a receipt.