Scientific Definition of "Optically Clear"

Is anyone's paint really "wet", no it just appears so.

Is anyone's paint "optically clear" after application of a LSP, no it just appears so (color hue hasn't change though gloss may have)

Is anyone's paint any "deeper" after a LSP application, no but it appears to be.



Automotive detailing is somewhat of an Art form that uses terms to describe the results of this art form.

Everyone that has used many products can discern a difference in appearance between some. We use these differences to produce the final appearance we desire. Some products impart minimal change and some more obvious.



To stretch detailing descriptive terms into the realm of exact science finiteness in a world full of "bullet" marketing terminology is well......



Enough said....
 
etml12 said:
I'm not trying to disprove anybody’s notions about this clarity issue as is could be quite complex but here is some food for thought. One of the properties I mentioned in my earlier post that affects light transmittance is refraction. In simple terms, the refractive index (RI) of a material is a measure of how much slower the light travels through it. This has a visual effect of “bending� the light. Think of a stick partially submerged in water and how the submerged portion is not collinear with the upper portion in air. So, RI’s occur any time there is an interface between two dissimilar products. If one was to layer multiple products it could be possible to cause a significant amount of refraction despite these layers only being thin films. Product lines like Zaino on the other hand may not exhibit this behavior if all the layered products are optically clear and have the same RI. In this case the light won’t be bent multiple times allowing more light transmittance.
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Since you mention having to layer to get refraction, do we know or can we measure whether a single layer (application) of anything can cause refraction? And can we measure the refractive index of an LSP in the bottle/tin or after it's applied?



PS After brushing up a bit on refractive index it seems it should be fairly easy to measure the relative RI between two liquid LSP's, I may even be able to borrow a refractometer (if its measuring range is in the right scale, since it's for aqueous solutions). Whether this has much bearing on what the film is like on a surface after buffing is unknown.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
On a sunny day, the sky looks blue...but at the end of the day, when the sun is going down, the sky looks other colors...has the air changed? No, we're at a different viewing angle, looking through more air, seeing a spectrum shift, etc.
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This is what I consider to be the "color change" people see. My red Camaro can look orange in some light, red in others, sometimes it even looks pastel in some lights. I personally believe that the "yellowing" (or discoloration) some people see has to do with the lighting they are viewing the vehicle in.



Just another IMO.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Since you mention having to layer to get refraction, do we know or can we measure whether a single layer (application) of anything can cause refraction? And can we measure the refractive index of an LSP in the bottle/tin or after it's applied?



PS After brushing up a bit on refractive index it seems it should be fairly easy to measure the relative RI between two liquid LSP's, I may even be able to borrow a refractometer (if its measuring range is in the right scale, since it's for aqueous solutions). Whether this has much bearing on what the film is like on a surface after buffing is unknown.
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Any interface between two substances has an associated RI. Therfore, in the simple case of the air-LSP-clear coat there would be two separate RI's in play. What those RI values are I don't care to speculate. It all depends upon their specific chemical properties.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
PS After brushing up a bit on refractive index it seems it should be fairly easy to measure the relative RI between two liquid LSP's
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But is the refractive index of the liquid going to be the same as the cured product?
 
Black240SX said:
But is the refractive index of the liquid going to be the same as the cured product?
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Um...you didn't quote my last sentence: " Whether this has much bearing on what the film is like on a surface after buffing is unknown."
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Um...you didn't quote my last sentence: " Whether this has much bearing on what the film is like on a surface after buffing is unknown."
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By way of explanation, I offer this picture:

pancake_bunny.jpg
 
Black240SX said:
I see that the bunny has stopped the conversation cold.



Perhaps if the pancake had some optically-clear syrup on it...
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perhaps it is 100% optically-clear, and as such, you can't see anything :getdown
 
You guys could call Oakley...they can tell you all about Optics and the effect a thin film has on Optical quality.



Oakley's patented XYZ Optics® maintains visual clarity at all angles of view, even at the edge of raked-back lens contours that maximize peripheral vision and protection. Conventional eyewear bends light rays and distorts vision at the lens periphery, but XYZ Optics® maps the full lens contour to the human eye, ensuring razor-sharp vision at all angles.



OAKLEY - LENS CLARITY - TECHNOLOGY

RET
 
I've always heard that pure carnauba is a yellow brick and isn't see thru. Even if bleached white I don't believe it can be seen thru. What makes one think that when it is mixed with solvents, oils, other waxes, and polymers it suddendly becomes 100% clear?
 
"My" definition of optically clear is a LSP thqat does not cloud the finish on say black and leaves the paint looking as it did when it left the spray booth. A lot of carnuaba's and even some solvents seem to cloud or take away from this look especially on dark or metallic colors. JMHO for whatever it is worth.
 
This is a great thread (but it is degenerating a bit because some people have chosen to be silly or inflammatory).



Personally, I don't care one bit what the heck "optically clear" really is. The reason I like this thread so much is that it shows that no one really knows what "optically clear" really is. As far as I'm concerned, it's just a term one company has coined to market their product. Users of this product have appropriated the term and use it to cast their preferred product in a positive light. In the end it seems no one really knows what "optically clear" is and I've never really seen anyone explain why it would be a desirable property for an LSP anyway.



I can throw around terms like "optically clear" and "hoobity-boobity" but in the end it comes down to . . . does this product have the attributes I prefer?



I'm not making a statement here about any product being better than another. I'm just saying no matter what quasi-scientific terms a company might throw around to convince people to buy their product it still has to meet expectations and fit preferences in the end.
 
wannafbody said:
I've always heard that pure carnauba is a yellow brick and isn't see thru. Even if bleached white I don't believe it can be seen thru. What makes one think that when it is mixed with solvents, oils, other waxes, and polymers it suddendly becomes 100% clear?
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I don't recall anyone claiming carnaubas were optically clear. The fact that they aren't appeals to me since my paint isn't nearly as black as other black cars.
 
Scottwax said:
I don't recall anyone claiming carnaubas were optically clear. The fact that they aren't appeals to me since my paint isn't nearly as black as other black cars.
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The fact that carnaubas aren't perfectly clear is an advantage on some solid colors as it artifically deepens or darkens the color. The issue is with mettallics. Many carnauba blends mute mettalic flakes. The most clear product allows the most mettallic pop. The term optically clear refers to the fact that when a product is applied to a see thru surface (like clearcoat or glass) after it dries and is wiped away they film isn't able to be visually discerned. It is practically 100% clear. That isn't to say that it may not create additional gloss, wetness or depth. I'm not sure if there is a way to measure that scientifically and accurately and it is possible that more than one product may have this attribute. Regardless I'd suggest allowing your eyes to be the judge as in the end that is all that really matters.
 
Optical clarity to "me" is a product that can be applied to automotive glass and not create a discernible change in clarity or optics. If distortion is not apparent would not one said, without being too anal, that the applied product is optically clear? Would this clarity change if applied to the "clear"coat?

Just food for thought.:cool:



Many apply such products (sealants) to glass without a second thought but also would not consider applying another protectant type product in real world situations
 
I think that metallic flake pop is also a kind of distortion and not an attribute of optical clarity. When you see the bare paint - well, that's optical clarity, because nothing alters the original appearance. But when you put on a film, which is able to show enhanced details, such as flakes, it is already a distortion - and not the ultimate truth. We are just lucky that the given product is able to reflect that certain spectrum where the refractions of the tiny edges of the flakes play their most important role.
 
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