imported_Intel486
New member
Does anyone know a good way to test the clean power of soaps? They only thing I can tell about different soaps is how they smell and how much they sud 
Rotary polishing techniques w/ M105 & M205
- Thread starter imported_Intel486
- Start date
imported_capspackle
New member
wow.. never thought my 8th grade science project would actually come into use.. Anyways, after remenicing a bit about the good ol' days of being in 8th grade (im a senior now.. 
) what i did as a science project was to buy some black grease from pep boys, or local auto store. Apply it very thinly to a surface of your choice, and try to clean it with a cleaner you are testing. Keep applying the grease to the same type of surface, but different areas, and use different cleaners to see which works best. Not sure if i made any sense.. But i did this using 4 sheets of 1/2' x 1/2' glass, applied to grease, and used pure ammonia, dawn, windex w/ ammonia, and windex w/o ammonia.. that was my science project.. gives you a good understanding of whether the cleaner performs or not..
Just an idea.. :nixweiss
) what i did as a science project was to buy some black grease from pep boys, or local auto store. Apply it very thinly to a surface of your choice, and try to clean it with a cleaner you are testing. Keep applying the grease to the same type of surface, but different areas, and use different cleaners to see which works best. Not sure if i made any sense.. But i did this using 4 sheets of 1/2' x 1/2' glass, applied to grease, and used pure ammonia, dawn, windex w/ ammonia, and windex w/o ammonia.. that was my science project.. gives you a good understanding of whether the cleaner performs or not..Just an idea.. :nixweiss
imported_Intel486
New member
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by YoSteve [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>you can test the sud ability with a straw and some water (from the hose), just don't suck in
[/b]</blockquote>
Plz elaborate? (sp?)
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by YoSteve [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>you can test the sud ability with a straw and some water (from the hose), just don't suck in
[/b]</blockquote>
Plz elaborate? (sp?)
I seem to be able to find many articles and threads on using a DA but very few when it comes to a rotary. I have found a thread in a UK forum and the gentleman wrote a guide called "Machine Polishing by Rotary Polisher". However, he uses the M82, 83 etc. and really doesn't get into detail on how to do it. how many passes left to right, up and down, etc. And, I've read about the Zenith method (which may not be applicable to M105 or 205 since they really don't break down?).
Does anyone have suggestions for using M105/205 w/ a rotary?
Dave P
Does anyone have suggestions for using M105/205 w/ a rotary?
Dave P
imported_detailchick
New member
Its very much the same as a DA , overlapping 50 percent each pass ....only you want to be going much faster(arm speed) and letting up as you near edges(letting up on machine speed).
Keep your pad flat as possible and get a good stance so the machine doesnt get you off balance
I was never taught the cross hatch on a rotary but Ive seen people do that also.
105 will dry up quickly on you and you can give it a little spray of water to revive it and work it longer. 205 you wont have that problem.
I would just do one pass and see where your at . Some soft paints thats all you need.
I would love to see more peoples advice on rotary use because honestly I got a 2 minute lesson on how to use a rotaty and always wondered if Im missing something important .
You sound more like a seasoned pro IMO :spy: I see no other advice I can offer other then spread it slow, then bump it up to around 1600-2000 RPM's @ 40 ft.lb's Muscleman
Make 4 passes (up/down,back/forth,updown.back/forth) then wipe clean to see what kinda damage...urrr progress you have incurred @-)
imported_Stokdgs
New member
Another Rotary Power user here.
All the advice sounds good - Meguiars 105 for some reason, is not happy to get started once you spread it and start working it. But if you keep on it, and are careful, and keep it a little damp so it doesnt dry too much and start to dust, it will work great.
I hardly use M105 anymore with foam pads, instead I like it to do those little places that are hard to get to - the door handle cups behind the door handles, around letters, numbers, etc., on the backs and sides of vehicles, with Qtips, , etc.
It is however, an absolute killer of badly swirled, scratched enough paint, Airplane paint, etc., to use with L/C Purple foamed wool pads, which I also like to keep damp.
Not trying to change your mindset, but there are other products out that can pretty much give you equally great cut and clarity on a Rotary..
And has already been said, M205 is a dream to use, is so the opposite of its big brother, you wonder how they could ever be related !!
I dont particularly see the need to run the speed up past 1000 to get perfectly clear paint, so I hardly ever go there. It also helps reduce slinging of product, and if you are using the infamous L/C Hydro-Shred pads, well, anything past 600 and they start crying anyway.. Their only saving grace is that they finish down so great!!!
I have a Makita 9227c and the new Flex PE 14-2 150 - both purchased from Classic Motoring Accessories..
Good luck, let us know how you are doing!
Dan F
All the advice sounds good - Meguiars 105 for some reason, is not happy to get started once you spread it and start working it. But if you keep on it, and are careful, and keep it a little damp so it doesnt dry too much and start to dust, it will work great.
I hardly use M105 anymore with foam pads, instead I like it to do those little places that are hard to get to - the door handle cups behind the door handles, around letters, numbers, etc., on the backs and sides of vehicles, with Qtips, , etc.
It is however, an absolute killer of badly swirled, scratched enough paint, Airplane paint, etc., to use with L/C Purple foamed wool pads, which I also like to keep damp.
Not trying to change your mindset, but there are other products out that can pretty much give you equally great cut and clarity on a Rotary..
And has already been said, M205 is a dream to use, is so the opposite of its big brother, you wonder how they could ever be related !!
I dont particularly see the need to run the speed up past 1000 to get perfectly clear paint, so I hardly ever go there. It also helps reduce slinging of product, and if you are using the infamous L/C Hydro-Shred pads, well, anything past 600 and they start crying anyway.. Their only saving grace is that they finish down so great!!!
I have a Makita 9227c and the new Flex PE 14-2 150 - both purchased from Classic Motoring Accessories..
Good luck, let us know how you are doing!
Dan F
imported_detailchick
New member
Dave , if I were you I would start on a beater car or get a hood from an autobody shop to practice on so you get a worry free feel of the machine .
did test area
Dan,
I have a 2003 Dodge Dakota with light scratches and swirls on the hood. Worse damage around the bed railing and tail gate.
Last night I started off on a small section of the hood with M205 and a black Soft Buff 2.0 pad with light pressure. went left to right. then right to left. Then top to bottom and reversed it. The paint was shinnier but the scratches still there.
Went to Soft Buff 2.0 yellow pad and did the same. No change.
Went to M105 with yellow pad and while it made a small difference it didn't correct the scratches after 5 tries. I even took the rotary up to about 1800 with heavy pressure (pad flat. I have a tendency to be fearless when it comes to experimenting). The scratches don't catch a nail and can only be seen from certain directions and the right light so they aren't that deep. I did learn how quickly that stuff dries, wow. I'll definitely start using a spray bottle. If it dried out too fast could that be why it didn't remove the scratches?
Could this paint be classified as extremely hard? I would have thought putting that type of pressure should have done something. Under a camera flash I can see swirls but under normal eye the paint looks like glass except for the darn scratches.
Any recommendations?
Also, it sounds like you use your rotary to polish too. For polishing what settings and pads do you use?
Dave
Dan,
I have a 2003 Dodge Dakota with light scratches and swirls on the hood. Worse damage around the bed railing and tail gate.
Last night I started off on a small section of the hood with M205 and a black Soft Buff 2.0 pad with light pressure. went left to right. then right to left. Then top to bottom and reversed it. The paint was shinnier but the scratches still there.
Went to Soft Buff 2.0 yellow pad and did the same. No change.
Went to M105 with yellow pad and while it made a small difference it didn't correct the scratches after 5 tries. I even took the rotary up to about 1800 with heavy pressure (pad flat. I have a tendency to be fearless when it comes to experimenting). The scratches don't catch a nail and can only be seen from certain directions and the right light so they aren't that deep. I did learn how quickly that stuff dries, wow. I'll definitely start using a spray bottle. If it dried out too fast could that be why it didn't remove the scratches?
Could this paint be classified as extremely hard? I would have thought putting that type of pressure should have done something. Under a camera flash I can see swirls but under normal eye the paint looks like glass except for the darn scratches.
Any recommendations?
Also, it sounds like you use your rotary to polish too. For polishing what settings and pads do you use?
Dave
Todd@RUPES
Just a regular guy
M105 is going to be fairly pad dependent, as a function of its abrasives.
For rotary advice I would recommend to start by priming your pad and then brushing off the excess. Keep your pad speed lower (1200-1400) to reduce heat, and instead use firm pressure.
When you use M105 on a wool pad (because in the increase of surface area of a wool pad) you will dramatically increase the rate of cut. Again firm pressure and a slower speed will usually net better results. Remember to clean your pad often.
For rotary advice I would recommend to start by priming your pad and then brushing off the excess. Keep your pad speed lower (1200-1400) to reduce heat, and instead use firm pressure.
When you use M105 on a wool pad (because in the increase of surface area of a wool pad) you will dramatically increase the rate of cut. Again firm pressure and a slower speed will usually net better results. Remember to clean your pad often.
imported_Kevin Brown
Jedi Master
Not allowed to link to aunother forum especially I think, so Google: 2 passes with M105/wool, no luck
Lots of posts. Pay particular attention to posts 16, 31, 42, 43.
Thanks Kevin. I read through the posts there and I'll try the advice you gave. I've ordered some Lake Country purple wool pads and hope to try it out this weekend.
Old Pirate
AMG Classic Car Detailing
As a good friend say's:
One of the most important things to do with your wool pads that some forget to do when buffing.
One of the most important things to do with your wool pads that some forget to do when buffing.
imported_Stokdgs
New member
Dave,
Had surgery on hand yesterday, couldnt reply.
I dont know much about Meguiars pads, assume that is what you are using, right?
We dont know how big an area these scratches are taking up, approx how big is the area? What you dont want to do is remove your paint from areas that dont need it - that are already compounded enough for your needs/expectations.
When all else has failed, a L/C purple foamed wool pad/M105 can do wonders,(next to sanding the scratches down, etc..), and it would be my next logical step.
Typically, a smaller backing plate and Purple foam wool pad would be best if the area is smaller than the pad/backing plate you already have, but if you dont have that, you can do just fine, just be more careful here.
And has already been said, this combination works really fast, and can cut too deep quickly; another reason to not want to cut a whole buffer diameter's worth of paint if you dont need to.
You might, before you go to this next stage, take your medium"agressive" pad and with the compound on the scratched area only, tilt the pad up so you have more of an edge, a smaller area that is on the paint, and work the scratches a little bit and see how this works. No high speed, no 40lbs, but firm pressure, enough moisture to allow the M105 to work longer and finish down better, and carefully, stopping often to check, (wiping it all off carefully), and see if you are now getting improvement. I offer this because the farther you are from the center of the pad, the faster it spins already, and with less surface area there, you are not taking off more paint than needed from the surrounding area.
Has this vehicle ever been compounded before ? I ask because you need to keep in mind that there is only so much clearcoat, paint, or a combination, etc., on the vehicle, and you dont want to run it down so thin that it breaks through, or this area is not ever able to be corrected again.
Hope you are keeping your pads cleaned after you finish using them for the day, etc., and letting them dry. With the Makita you can spin a clean, wrung out pad, at 3000 and remove a lot of water quickly, just mind the sling and do this where it wont get on stuff you dont want wet.
I dont know where you live but perhaps someone who frequents this board is close by, and would be able to come by and look at this with you ?
Glad to read you are fearless when it comes to experimenting ! With this kind of work, it also helps much to not be impatient, but be logical, careful, and as knowledgeable as possible. A lot of the best Detailers in the country frequent this site, so you are in great hands, hopefully you will get the technique, etc., dialed in and go from there.
Good luck, keep in touch.
Dan F
Had surgery on hand yesterday, couldnt reply.
I dont know much about Meguiars pads, assume that is what you are using, right?
We dont know how big an area these scratches are taking up, approx how big is the area? What you dont want to do is remove your paint from areas that dont need it - that are already compounded enough for your needs/expectations.
When all else has failed, a L/C purple foamed wool pad/M105 can do wonders,(next to sanding the scratches down, etc..), and it would be my next logical step.
Typically, a smaller backing plate and Purple foam wool pad would be best if the area is smaller than the pad/backing plate you already have, but if you dont have that, you can do just fine, just be more careful here.
And has already been said, this combination works really fast, and can cut too deep quickly; another reason to not want to cut a whole buffer diameter's worth of paint if you dont need to.
You might, before you go to this next stage, take your medium"agressive" pad and with the compound on the scratched area only, tilt the pad up so you have more of an edge, a smaller area that is on the paint, and work the scratches a little bit and see how this works. No high speed, no 40lbs, but firm pressure, enough moisture to allow the M105 to work longer and finish down better, and carefully, stopping often to check, (wiping it all off carefully), and see if you are now getting improvement. I offer this because the farther you are from the center of the pad, the faster it spins already, and with less surface area there, you are not taking off more paint than needed from the surrounding area.
Has this vehicle ever been compounded before ? I ask because you need to keep in mind that there is only so much clearcoat, paint, or a combination, etc., on the vehicle, and you dont want to run it down so thin that it breaks through, or this area is not ever able to be corrected again.
Hope you are keeping your pads cleaned after you finish using them for the day, etc., and letting them dry. With the Makita you can spin a clean, wrung out pad, at 3000 and remove a lot of water quickly, just mind the sling and do this where it wont get on stuff you dont want wet.
I dont know where you live but perhaps someone who frequents this board is close by, and would be able to come by and look at this with you ?
Glad to read you are fearless when it comes to experimenting !
With this kind of work, it also helps much to not be impatient, but be logical, careful, and as knowledgeable as possible. A lot of the best Detailers in the country frequent this site, so you are in great hands, hopefully you will get the technique, etc., dialed in and go from there.Good luck, keep in touch.
Dan F
Dan,
Hope your hand is doing well and thank you for the advice. I'll try to answer some of your questions and comments.
My test area is a 2' X 2' area on my hood. The car has never been detailed in it's 8 yr life span. In the past I've always got by on a good wash and Turtle Wax color wax (I know cheating) and from a distance everyone thought the truck had a new paint job. Close-up you could tell it needed some polishing. I've decided I want the vehicle to look much better. Plus, I plan on doing my wife's new Rogue. the dealership really did a number on it.
The yellow pad from Meguiars is more of a finishing pad than a light cutting pad. It sits between the Lake Country orange and white pads. I'll try the method you described with the 8207 yellow and see it that works on the scratch in question. I definitely need to start spritzing the work area to keep the M105 going better. I haven't been doing that.
Maybe I need to get a pad in between the one I have and the purple foam, a light cutting pad before going the purple foam pad route. I'm also going to try Kevin Brown's recommendation for the purple foam pad on another area. I've ordered a couple of purple foam pads because I know the bed area is going to require more work than what the finishing pad can accomplish. Plus, it doesn't hurt to have a wide variety of pads.
I wash my pads right after I'm done with them. Read a lot about making sure to do that. Thanks for the tip on spin drying. Need to start doing that.
I'm in the Baltimore, Maryland area. That would be great if someone could give me some pointers in person. On-hands is always better than reading. I'm an information nut. I try to have as much info as possible before doing anything.
Thank you again. When I get it figured out I'll try and post some pics of the before and after. I need to get some good lighting after work today to take better pics.
Dave
Hope your hand is doing well and thank you for the advice. I'll try to answer some of your questions and comments.
My test area is a 2' X 2' area on my hood. The car has never been detailed in it's 8 yr life span. In the past I've always got by on a good wash and Turtle Wax color wax (I know cheating) and from a distance everyone thought the truck had a new paint job. Close-up you could tell it needed some polishing. I've decided I want the vehicle to look much better. Plus, I plan on doing my wife's new Rogue. the dealership really did a number on it.
The yellow pad from Meguiars is more of a finishing pad than a light cutting pad. It sits between the Lake Country orange and white pads. I'll try the method you described with the 8207 yellow and see it that works on the scratch in question. I definitely need to start spritzing the work area to keep the M105 going better. I haven't been doing that.
Maybe I need to get a pad in between the one I have and the purple foam, a light cutting pad before going the purple foam pad route. I'm also going to try Kevin Brown's recommendation for the purple foam pad on another area. I've ordered a couple of purple foam pads because I know the bed area is going to require more work than what the finishing pad can accomplish. Plus, it doesn't hurt to have a wide variety of pads.
I wash my pads right after I'm done with them. Read a lot about making sure to do that. Thanks for the tip on spin drying. Need to start doing that.
I'm in the Baltimore, Maryland area. That would be great if someone could give me some pointers in person. On-hands is always better than reading. I'm an information nut. I try to have as much info as possible before doing anything.
Thank you again. When I get it figured out I'll try and post some pics of the before and after. I need to get some good lighting after work today to take better pics.
Dave
imported_Stokdgs
New member
Dave,
Thanks, the surgery went fine - extremely sore, small stitches to be careful of, but releasing the tendons in the sheaths of 3 fingers and my thumb, will let me get back full use of that hand again and not have to live on Naproxen. Had the other hand done last year, and had to wait until I could afford to do this one, as it is not inexpensive.
Years of using all kinds of power tools , and probably keyboarding also as long, has finally called for the repairs.
Yes, you could try the equivalent of the Lake Country (L/C, LC) Orange pad or even their Yellow pad before you go into Purple Foam Wool if you want.
As another option, 3M makes a very small purple foam pad that is very aggressive and even comes in as small as a 3" pad, which is great if you just want to touch a very small area of damage, and not hit surrounding paint.. Of course, it would require a backing plate that size too, etc...
Im trying to remember - someone else on this forum has a beautiful red dodge truck and has posted pics before of it - who is that ?????
Angelo -- does this fine company have any clients in Baltimore area that might be able to check in with Dave here ???
You are doing great, Dave! Glad that you are taking your time and learning all you can on the way.. There are very few things that can substitute for the feeling you will get when you have your truck and your Rogue all detailed out, blinding, clear, no swirls paint, and stunning gloss and protection, and you look back and say - wow, I did that myself !!!
This technology alone has made huge advances forward just in the last year even, (Meguiars D300 series compounds, microfiberpads for D/A, Optimum Clear Coat, etc.), and it looks like these are winners based on what I read here and other forums.
Hopefully, we can find some people out your way that can check in with you!
Hope you continue to enjoy your stay here!
Dan F
Thanks, the surgery went fine - extremely sore, small stitches to be careful of, but releasing the tendons in the sheaths of 3 fingers and my thumb, will let me get back full use of that hand again and not have to live on Naproxen. Had the other hand done last year, and had to wait until I could afford to do this one, as it is not inexpensive.
Years of using all kinds of power tools , and probably keyboarding also as long, has finally called for the repairs.
Yes, you could try the equivalent of the Lake Country (L/C, LC) Orange pad or even their Yellow pad before you go into Purple Foam Wool if you want.
As another option, 3M makes a very small purple foam pad that is very aggressive and even comes in as small as a 3" pad, which is great if you just want to touch a very small area of damage, and not hit surrounding paint.. Of course, it would require a backing plate that size too, etc...
Im trying to remember - someone else on this forum has a beautiful red dodge truck and has posted pics before of it - who is that ?????
Angelo -- does this fine company have any clients in Baltimore area that might be able to check in with Dave here ???
You are doing great, Dave! Glad that you are taking your time and learning all you can on the way.. There are very few things that can substitute for the feeling you will get when you have your truck and your Rogue all detailed out, blinding, clear, no swirls paint, and stunning gloss and protection, and you look back and say - wow, I did that myself !!!
This technology alone has made huge advances forward just in the last year even, (Meguiars D300 series compounds, microfiberpads for D/A, Optimum Clear Coat, etc.), and it looks like these are winners based on what I read here and other forums.
Hopefully, we can find some people out your way that can check in with you!
Hope you continue to enjoy your stay here!
Dan F
imported_wendell jarvis
New member
Dave,
Thanks, the surgery went fine - extremely sore, small stitches to be careful of, but releasing the tendons in the sheaths of 3 fingers and my thumb, will let me get back full use of that hand again and not have to live on Naproxen. Had the other hand done last year, and had to wait until I could afford to do this one, as it is not inexpensive.
Years of using all kinds of power tools , and probably keyboarding also as long, has finally called for the repairs.
Yes, you could try the equivalent of the Lake Country (L/C, LC) Orange pad or even their Yellow pad before you go into Purple Foam Wool if you want.
As another option, 3M makes a very small purple foam pad that is very aggressive and even comes in as small as a 3" pad, which is great if you just want to touch a very small area of damage, and not hit surrounding paint.. Of course, it would require a backing plate that size too, etc...
Im trying to remember - someone else on this forum has a beautiful red dodge truck and has posted pics before of it - who is that ?????
Angelo -- does this fine company have any clients in Baltimore area that might be able to check in with Dave here ???
You are doing great, Dave! Glad that you are taking your time and learning all you can on the way.. There are very few things that can substitute for the feeling you will get when you have your truck and your Rogue all detailed out, blinding, clear, no swirls paint, and stunning gloss and protection, and you look back and say - wow, I did that myself !!!
This technology alone has made huge advances forward just in the last year even, (Meguiars D300 series compounds, microfiberpads for D/A, Optimum Clear Coat, etc.), and it looks like these are winners based on what I read here and other forums.
Hopefully, we can find some people out your way that can check in with you!
Hope you continue to enjoy your stay here!
Dan F
I posted a month ago or so a Red Dodge 2500 Quad Cab, using Makita 9227 Purple wool foam pad and white LC Pad followed by LC Gray Pad with 85rd.......can re post if it would be helpful