Rotary Help needed for newbie!!!!

A

asharma

New member
1st time trying a rotary, lots of PC exeperience, wow, this makita 9227c is pulling everywhere...can't seem to control it at all...optimum compound, LC 6.5 in pad, LC 5" backing plate...it's almost like the backing plate is a little small as the pad is caving a bit in the middle causing more of a wobble...but the bigger problem is that it is PULLING everywhere...why??? HELP!!!!!!! (and thanks)
 
It's a LOT more powerful than the D/A. It's simply the nature of the beast and you have to figure out how to tame it. First questions are the obvious ones. Are the pad's perfectly centered? if not that will cause a major issue. Are you priming the pads? if not they could be overheating and grabbing. what kinds of speeds are you using it at? Practice makes perfect. But you do have to approch a rotary in a different manner than a D/A machine.
 
thanks jake...just went down and tried it again...used much more product, i don't believe the pads were totally primed...speeds 1,2,3...not jumping as much..seems you need to have the surface good and lubed up...i will try to center the pads even more...a bit smoother now..thank god for my pcxp and M205...cleaned my mess right up!!!! your right, the rotary is a totally different beast...!!!!! any other suggestions??
 
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It's hard to see even in these pictures but notice that the pad is contacting the paint at about 12 O'Clock to 3 O'clock using the handle as 6 and the line straight up through the top as 12.



Try this. Put your hands on the machine the way you see mine in the picture. Put the pad a half inch from and parallel to the surface of the paint. Now, keep your hands the same distance from the paint but let the pad fall onto the surface. That's your starting contact patch.





There are only a few things you have to remember when running a rotary. 1- run the pad off the edges. 2 - keep the contact patch running parallel to the apex of whatever curve you're on. Imagine a tube three feet across, like a big pipe, the apex of the curve runs the length of the tube both inside and out. If you put the pad so it lays flat against the length of the tube the pressure is even, if you put it so it's running like gears would mesh the pressure is uneven and dangerous, less controllable. 3 - as the contact patch decreases because you've had to raise the angle of the pad lower your pressure. 4 - Very important - keep the power cord off the paint and away from the spinning pad. Almost everyone I know has managed to snag the power cord and it's scary if you're lucky and debilitating if you're not. My cord is generally over my left shoulder.



It's good practice to screw up on purpose. Run the machine onto an edge so you know what that feels and sounds like so you will know to pull away before you do any damage.



After awhile, you'll learn to cross cut your swirls so you leave an almost perfect finish that will finish off in no time.







Robert
 
holy crap Robert...thanks a bunch...but this is starting to feel like "work" to me...much different than my pcxp which is fun to use...I debated geting the Flex 3401 DA which is a pleasant combo of direct drive and RO...might be a compromise between the Makita and pcxp...perhaps i'll rest tonight and feel better tomorrow...Can't thank you enuf for the direction and coaching!!!
 
Robert,



I read on here that most people recommend keeping the pad flat on the panel to minimize holograms etc. Why do you recommend holding the pad at an angle (12-3)? Any difference between keeping the pad flat vs. at an angle? Just trying to figure out why some people insist on keeping the pad flat while others say at an angle, thanks
 
I'm no rotary pro, but I too have noticed that if I don't leave my pad flat I get RIDS. I can finish down with a rotary and M205/finishing pad and it looks perfect under the lights.



My advice to the OP is more product. If the pad is grabbing, you need more polish. Also if the surface hasn't been properly prepped (clayed) then I get grabbing.
 
SR77 said:
Robert,



I read on here that most people recommend keeping the pad flat on the panel to minimize holograms etc. Why do you recommend holding the pad at an angle (12-3)? Any difference between keeping the pad flat vs. at an angle? Just trying to figure out why some people insist on keeping the pad flat while others say at an angle, thanks
Click to expand...



The angle isn't that high and by using a knitted wool, electrified wool, or foamed wool pad and as I said running the contact patch parallel to the apex of the curve I keep the pressure even. I don't have to use as much product so the product doesn't slurry around under the pad and bounce across the paint, or get thrown around, because it's more stuck to the pad. I think you'd find that even the guys who advocate running flat have just a little more pressure up in that area just in the interest of consistent feedback from the machine.



In my experience, there are really very few absolutely flat panels on cars. That's why I tell people to be aware of the apex of the curve. I start in the top right corner of the area I'm working, put down a small ribbon of the polish I use and as the machine picks up speed I move right to left across that ribbon with the left edge raised so the polish is picked up without spatter. I repeat this move until I have a nice even but not thick distribution of polish over the pad.





Then I work like this. When moving the machine right to left, I pull with my left hand. My contact patch, because of a VERY SLIGHT TILT, is about 11 to 3. Imagine these lines ))))))) from 11 to 3 on a clock spread across a panel. Remember, the machine was running right to left. Now, I'm going to cut back across that same pass left to right by pushing with my left hand, but this time I'm going contact between 9 and 1. So, imagine these lines ((((((( from 9 to 1 right over the top of the first set. That's the cross cut. Then move down just a little and move right to left, come over that left to right, move down repeat. The distance I move depends on how much cutting I need to do. This is how I cut everything from the abuse scratches to sandpaper cut. For me, the point of a rotary is to remove scratches and leave swirls my next step can take out. That is to say, swirls most people wouldn't even notice, but I'm not going for a perfectly swirl free finish with that machine because while I can get there with my rotary, it's not as fast or effective as what I do.



One more advantage of this technique is that as the pad moves left to right, it leaves just a little polish at the bottom of the pass, but when you move right to left it cleans it off, so the action leaves the panel almost polish free. Nothing that can leave a mark during the wipe off stage. Also, as long as enough residue is being left on the one pass you know you don't have to add more polish.



When I get the scratches out, I use the BO6040 and an orange foam pad with polish to remove the swirls. It's faster and more certain. I go from colorsand scratch to swirl and cobweb free in two machine steps. No hand rubbing and no filler.



I read that HD Uno can get me there, from sandpaper scratch to swirl and cobweb free, in one step and I'm looking forward buying a sample and trying that. In fact, I think I'll go do that now. :)



All the best,

Robert
 
I keep the pad flat. When starting out as a newbie keep the pressure off (just the weight of the buffer) and keep with lower speeds (under 1200).



Prime the pads (look up KB pad priming) so that the whole surface has a light film of polish. The heat of a rotary will break down polishes much faster than a PC and they will dry faster, too. Don't overwork the polishes.



I use 6.5" pads, as I find them easier to control. LC white and black/blue pads work well. For cutting I use PFW, it stays cooler and cuts as well as orange foam for me.



If you are getting trails, but want to try finishing out by rotary I would look into 3m UF. Follow the directions and use for its designed purpose. I can get a great finish without trails using UF.



*insert standard "rotary" warnings (keep pad moving, edges are thinner, etc.)*



The main thing is keep practicing. You will get it and it will see easy.
 
scary bill said:
I keep the pad flat. When starting out as a newbie keep the pressure off (just the weight of the buffer) and keep with lower speeds (under 1200). [/I]
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Good advice. Add to that, stay away from plastic (mirrors, washer nozzles, door handles, trim, bumpers).
 
Like others have said, keep the pad flat. Prime the pad and move in straight lines with 50% overlapping passes. Uneven surfaces will make the tendency for the rotary to pull more likely.



Until you get used to it and learn to compensate for it, a rotary is going to try to pull you. As you can experience, your arms/hands muscle memory will automatically keep in check the tendency for a rotary to pull.



I shot this video a few days ago using a rotary. Hope it helps and that my huge head isn't too distracting. ;)



YouTube - Proper rotary technique when using Meguiars #205
 
WOW WOW...thanks bigtime Scott!!!!! You are a huge asset to this community Sir...



Before I saw your vid, I decided to return the Makita 9227c and get the flex 3401...I'm a weekend warrior and am hoping the 3401 will give me 90% of the correction that the rotary will do without the huge learning curve...90% will be good enuf for my hobby like needs and hopefully i will not have the same concerns of burning the paint/plastics etc...thanks again...
 
nice video, Scott. Thanks!!



question, I noticed you only went left to right and not up and down. is that technique only for polishing or also for correcting? thanks
 
scholar said:
nice video, Scott. Thanks!!



question, I noticed you only went left to right and not up and down. is that technique only for polishing or also for correcting? thanks
Click to expand...



Paint wasn't really that bad, just light marring/swirls from washing. Honestly, I don't find that changing directions really does all that much as long as you apply consistant pressure and slow speed with 50% overlapping passes.
 
Scottwax said:
Paint wasn't really that bad, just light marring/swirls from washing. Honestly, I don't find that changing directions really does all that much as long as you apply consistant pressure and slow speed with 50% overlapping passes.
Click to expand...



thanks again
 
asharma,



I'm a rotary noob myself and I've found the 3M waffle pads very user friendly. Less overall contact with pad/paint without loosing too much polishing power. It really helped me out easing into rotary usage and I don't have many issues usually posted on this forum: Very little pulling, paint temp isn't too much of an issue, and even as a noob I've gotten 90%+ on black paint without breaking my back (yes I used an ISP wipe).



I've also grabbed a few test panels from local body shops here. It really helped in training, but also to know limits. I got to see how long it took with the 3M pads to burn paint, what burnt paint looks like in person, and my speed limits. I was amazed how long it took me to burn the paint. 3000rpm, white pad (compounding), cutting compound, and I was on a single spot for a good 10-15 seconds before it got too hot. I'd almost have to try to burn paint. (Disclaimer: I know all paints are different. I'm assuming all here know that as well. My comments are to show my personal experience and are in no way telling a person to use a buffer at 3000rpm or any other ungodly speed ;) )
 
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