Roadfly's wax review / test

Scottwax said:
kartoon-I have no idea why Wolfgang stopped beading after a week in Steve's tests but I've had it on a customer's LS430 since early March and it was beading very nicely about 10 days ago when I went out to wash it....and I know because it started raining while I was cleaning their cars. :(



The paint still has noticable slickness too.



Scottwax ,

Did you use any carnuba toppers or was it just "plain" Wolfgang ?



This darn weather - so inconsiderate :)
 
kartoon said:
Scottwax ,

Did you use any carnuba toppers or was it just "plain" Wolfgang ?



This darn weather - so inconsiderate :)



No toppers, just the pre-cleaner and sealant. I also have Vanilla Moose and WG Sealant on a black Pathfinder to see how the sealant reacts to other surface prep.
 
As some others have said, I don't have a doubt about geekysteve's integrity. Question his methodology if you want to. But I don't see any doubt of his honesty and integrity. I met Steve, and was very quickly impressed that he seems truly interested in "the truth" (without spin) about detailing products. And I like that he reveals his test methodology in laborious detail. :D



One thing to note about this test: He consciously chose NOT to use any of the QDs or toppers that many of us might use to maintain/extend the life of these products. Thus, he handicapped Zaino, as well as the other products. Scottwax et al: Maybe the reason some of you get more longevity is that you're "maintaining" your waxes/sealants in a way that Steve isn't allowing in this test? :nixweiss
 
MattZ28 said:
Another thing, how is it possible for Zaino's depth to increase after a week? lol



Uncatalyzed Z-2 takes a while to fully crosslink. As it fully hardens, the quality of shine is supposed to get better. This happens all the time with a lot of products.... not just Z.
 
Good point Lynn, I was noting the same thing mentally as I read through this thread the other day. I would like to add that I use Glanz Wax on my parents cars and they certainly don't know what a "QD" is and eventhough the shine and gloss suffer the paint is still protected after 4 months, beads are present whereas they are a bit larger than the initial application. It just depends on what you place the emphasis on looks or protection and then add in there the ease of use and price. I like the reports as another view among many. Nice update though, way to go Steve, as if you aren't busy enough as it is.
 
I thought this was very interesting and useful review. Thanks Steve.:xyxthumbs I especially like the beading pictures. It would be interesting to have pictures of immediately after application to compare to the 2 week pictures.



However, a couple of thoughts came to me when reading this review with regard to the application and removal of the products. I know I have read that originally that Steve had problems with Zaino because of how think it was applied in his original test of Zaino...I wonder if this could be the problem with the Glanz and/or any of the other products which scored lower in this category (and the impact it could have had on appearance and protection).



I say this only because of his comment about streaking and difficulty in removing Glanz. I have never found the removal of Glanz any more difficult than Zaino (i.e. both are usually removed quite easily with no streaking). The only times I have had streaking or removal difficulties (greater than merely wiping) is when I have gotten too much of the product on the finish. I have had the same increased removal effort and streaking with Zaino when I applied too much of the product. Both Glanz and Zaino are similar in this way requiring a thin application (more is not better). My last thought is more general with regards to reviews of this nature... the evaluation of appearances such as depth, gloss, even slickness is subjective and changes from person to person and difficult (if not impossible) to show in pictures. Beading is subjetive to a point also but it is easily shown in pictures.
 
Lynn-maybe you missed what I wrote but I don't use any QD on the roofs of the vehicles I am testing for durability. That way, I have a well exposed section that only has the wax or sealant on it.



What I don't understand is how Steve is getting less than 2 weeks of beading with several products on a panel that just sits there and I and many others are getting much great durability on actual vehicles that are subject to road grime, bird bombs, bug guts, tree sap, etc. I think the multiple Dawn washings prior to applying the waxes and sealants may be having an effect since only with Zaino is that a requirement. Maybe another panel not washed down with Dawn may show different results. That is really the only difference I see between his tests and what I am doing on customer's cars. Believe me, if products stopped beading in less than two weeks, I'd have a lot of really pissed off customers.
 
AMEN. I have to agree with Scott. Even us "enthusiasts" see at least a month or two of durability with most everything.
 
I sincerly believe Zaino will win any test Roadfly does reguardless of the contenders. I think they are falling to the pressure of the Zealots just like they did when they "re-tested" Zaino in the wax test. Its funny, they admitted not knowing how to apply synthetics yet only Zaino get re-tested......



just MY opinon that cant be changed.
 
Scott,



The only big difference I can see between my own testing, of WG in particular, and Steve's is that my test subject sits in the garage during evenings and weekends. Steve's subject sat outside 24/7 if I read correctly. Do any of your WG'd cars sit outside 24/7? I know with SG, the durability is shortened on cars that sit outside 24/7. I've never actually tested how much less though. Something to try...



As for the Dawn point you brought up;



In Steve's test he used an ispropyl alcohol solution to clean any dawn residue off the panel to ensure it was squeaky clean. Hence the dawn should have had no impact, adversely or favourably, to any of the products tested.



Bill.
 
Scottwax said:
Lynn-maybe you missed what I wrote but I don't use any QD on the roofs of the vehicles I am testing for durability. That way, I have a well exposed section that only has the wax or sealant on it.



What I don't understand is how Steve is getting less than 2 weeks of beading with several products on a panel that just sits there and I and many others are getting much great durability on actual vehicles that are subject to road grime, bird bombs, bug guts, tree sap, etc. I think the multiple Dawn washings prior to applying the waxes and sealants may be having an effect since only with Zaino is that a requirement. Maybe another panel not washed down with Dawn may show different results. That is really the only difference I see between his tests and what I am doing on customer's cars. Believe me, if products stopped beading in less than two weeks, I'd have a lot of really pissed off customers.



I hesitate to mention this, because of some unfortunate reactions after my original post on this two years ago, but less than two weeks life is exactly what I got two summers ago when I tried out some Platinum paint sealant. It does happen, regardless of what you may believe. And at that time, there were those (at least one unfortunate person) here on the Autopia boards that got real upset that anyone claimed that short a life, but I had got really poor results from the Platinum, and I had high expectations because of getting at least six months life out of Meguiars No. 20. I'm sorry, Scottwax, softball nut, & SVT4ME , but, again, it does happen, regardless of what you believe.



My results so far with Zaino have been as excellent as Steve's. Like I posted earlier, so far, well over six month life out of Zaino. And I'll go so far as to repeat myself: I had high expectations because of getting at least six months life out of Meguiars No. 20 (which I've used for well over eighteen years).



My two cents worth.
 
Len, OT, but,



How many layers of z2/z5 did you have on your paint when you got the 6 months of durability? Just curious to know.



Thanks,



Bill.
 
To be perfectly honest, I only read the Guru Wax Test Report for the first time about 2 weeks ago. The tester went into some detail about the procedure he used. It cetainly appeared to be a reasonable process and seemed to put the products on a even field. While I havent used every wax that he tested, I have used a few. My results differed a bit on some waxes and were extremely similar on others. Which lead me to believe the report was probably fair to his personal findings. I may not agree with everything he judged but I found no reason to believe his report was inaccurate to his actual findings.



Even though I have read some of his posts, I have no idea who Steve from Guru is. Is there some reason that I should believe that the tests were biased, or that its a dishonest report? Does anyone know this guy to be agenda driven, or of questionable ethical character?
 
Len_A said:
I hesitate to mention this, because of some unfortunate reactions after my original post on this two years ago, but less than two weeks life is exactly what I got two summers ago when I tried out some Platinum paint sealant. It does happen, regardless of what you may believe. And at that time, there were those (at least one unfortunate person) here on the Autopia boards that got real upset that anyone claimed that short a life, but I had got really poor results from the Platinum, and I had high expectations because of getting at least six months life out of Meguiars No. 20. I'm sorry, Scottwax, softball nut, & SVT4ME , but, again, it does happen, regardless of what you believe.



Who says it never happens that some products fail to deliver expected durability? Maybe a bad batch of product, improper prep or even some paint has poor durability no matter what you use...while their neighbor with the same color car gets much better durability with the same product.



The point is that very few are getting less than two weeks of beading from some of the products tested and we are just curious why panels that just sit (albeit exposed 24/7) opposed to cars that are driven though a variety of conditions show such different results. I'm not questioning Steve's integrity, I am just trying to determine if there is something in the process he uses that affects durability so drastically and what others of us are doing that gives good durability results.



My results so far with Zaino have been as excellent as Steve's. Like I posted earlier, so far, well over six month life out of Zaino. And I'll go so far as to repeat myself: I had high expectations because of getting at least six months life out of Meguiars No. 20 (which I've used for well over eighteen years).



My two cents worth.



No one is questioning Zaino's durability, just why other products are doing so bad.
 
BillNorth said:
Scott,



The only big difference I can see between my own testing, of WG in particular, and Steve's is that my test subject sits in the garage during evenings and weekends. Steve's subject sat outside 24/7 if I read correctly. Do any of your WG'd cars sit outside 24/7? I know with SG, the durability is shortened on cars that sit outside 24/7. I've never actually tested how much less though. Something to try...



My own car sits out 24/7. The Lexus is outside (covered parking) during the day, garaged at night. I wash it with QEW about twice a month. Another vehicle (black Silverado SS) I have it on sits outside in the sun during the day, garaged at night. I would think though that being driven in a variety of conditions would be harder on a wax or sealant than a panel that just sits.



As for the Dawn point you brought up;



In Steve's test he used an ispropyl alcohol solution to clean any dawn residue off the panel to ensure it was squeaky clean. Hence the dawn should have had no impact, adversely or favourably, to any of the products tested.



Bill.



Maybe, but the average person does not wash their vehicle down with Dawn or wipe it down with ispropyl alcohol prior to waxing. I am just curious what would happen if Steve were to wash the panel as the average weekend detailer would prior to applying the products. Maybe the results would change, maybe they wouldn't. I just think using regular car wash soap initially would be much closer to real world usage of the products.



Steve? Any thoughts? Any chance of this type of test?
 
NozeBleedSpeed said:
Does anyone know this guy to be agenda driven, or of questionable ethical character?



I've gotten to know Steve pretty well over the course of the last year, and anybody that knows Steve knows he goes out of his way to make these tests level and fair. Often to the extent that he takes a lot of personal crap from others. Steve has no interest in the results of any product, good or bad, he just reports his findings.





Originally posted by SVT4ME

I sincerly believe Zaino will win any test Roadfly does reguardless of the contenders. I think they are falling to the pressure of the Zealots just like they did when they "re-tested" Zaino in the wax test. Its funny, they admitted not knowing how to apply synthetics yet only Zaino get re-tested......



just MY opinon that cant be changed



Yeah, that's it. It's a giant conspiracy by Steve and the 20 other people (some of which had never heard of Zaino, and had no clue what it was) that helped test products for the report to promote Zaino. :rolleyes: I guess the P21s people were in on it too for the natural wax section, eh? After all, it did help fuel their sales. I find it funny you mention Zaino "zealots", if you think Zaino is the only product that has dedicated fans then your blind. I only wish Steve would post some of the email rants he got from fans of non-Zaino products, you'd find out what a zealot really is.
 
I've used Zaino (several times) and think it is a very good product...great shine, slickness and #1 in durability in my book. I just had a hard time believing that all the other products were done in 2 weeks.....



But, as Mike Phillips says: "find something you like and use it". For me, I use WG and BF2 sealants and P21S or Stuf carnaubas. It is fun to try different products ....I need to try EX-P next. Interesting thread.
 
I saw the wax review sometime last week and began on a journey to figure out why the difference in results. So far here is what I have:

Acid Rain(rain, snow, sleet, dew, frost, or fog). In Eastern North America man made emissios of sulfur and nitrogen oxides are at least 10 times greater, es

Here is an article about acid rain and maybe explains why the different results:



Over the past two decades, there have been numerous reports of damage to automotive paints and other coatings. The reported damage typically occurs on horizontal surfaces and appears as irregularly shaped, permanently etched areas. The damage can best be detected under fluorescent lamps, can be most easily observed on dark colored vehicles, and appears to occur after evaporation of a moisture droplet. In addition, some evidence suggests damage occurs most frequently on freshly painted vehicles. Usually the damage is permanent; once it has occurred, the only solution is to repaint.



The general consensus within the auto industry is that the damage is caused by some form of environmental fallout. "Environmental fallout," a term widely used in the auto and coatings industries, refers to damage caused by air pollution (e.g., acid rain), decaying insects, bird droppings, pollen, and tree sap. The results of laboratory experiments and at least one field study have demonstrated that acid rain can scar automotive coatings. Furthermore, chemical analyses of the damaged areas of some exposed test panels showed elevated levels of sulfate, implicating acid rain.



The popular term "acid rain" refers to both wet and dry deposition of acidic pollutants that may damage material surfaces, including auto finishes. These pollutants, which are released when coal and other fossil fuels are burned, react with water vapor and oxidants in the atmosphere and are chemically transformed into sulfuric and nitric acids. The acidic compounds then may fall to earth as rain, snow, fog, or may join dry particles and fall as dry deposition. Automotive coatings may be damaged by all forms of acid rain, including dry deposition, especially when dry acidic deposition is mixed with dew or rain. However, it has been difficult to quantify the specific contribution of acid rain to paint finish damage relative to damage caused by other forms of environmental fallout, by the improper application of paint or by deficient paint formulations. According to coating experts, trained specialists can differentiate between the various forms of damage, but the best way of determining the cause of chemically induced damage is to conduct a detailed, chemical analysis of the damaged area.



Because evaporation of acidic moisture appears to be a key element in the damage, any steps taken to eliminate its occurrence on freshly painted vehicles may alleviate the problem. The steps include frequent washing followed by hand drying, covering the vehicle during precipitation events, and use of one of the protective coatings currently on the market that claim to protect the original finish. (However, data on the performance of these coatings are not yet sufficient.)



The auto and coatings industries are fully aware of the potential damage and are actively pursuing the development of coatings that are more resistant to environmental fallout, including acid rain. The problem is not a universal one-- it does not affect all coatings or all vehicles even in geographic areas known to be subject to acid rain-- which suggests that technology exists to protect against this damage. Until that technology is implemented to protect all vehicles or until acid deposition is adequately reduced, frequent washing and drying and covering the vehicle appear to be the best methods for consumers who wish to minimize acid rain damage.
 
Yeah, that's it. It's a giant conspiracy by Steve and the 20 other people (some of which had never heard of Zaino, and had no clue what it was) that helped test products for the report to promote Zaino. :rolleyes: I guess the P21s people were in on it too for the natural wax section, eh? After all, it did help fuel their sales. I find it funny you mention Zaino "zealots", if you think Zaino is the only product that has dedicated fans then your blind. I only wish Steve would post some of the email rants he got from fans of non-Zaino products, you'd find out what a zealot really is. [/B]



All I am saying is Zaino got a "Special Treatment" After hundereds of email from many Zaino users complaining their favorite product could not have done so bad. The other products did not get the same second change wheras all synthetics should have been applied super thin.
 
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