Reviewed: Zaino Z5 Pro

buzzb said:
nice write up Sean! For me the biggest advantage of using ZFX is the ability to put on 3 fully cured coats of protection on the same day. The "old" process (again for me as I don't detail for a living) was to wash, clay (using clean soap mixture), light wash, dry, polish, then apply sealant. Wait a minimum of 24 hrs- wash again (since the car would be driven), dry, then apply another coat of sealant. Wait a minimum of 24 hrs- wash again (since the car would be driven), dry, then apply another coat of sealant for a minimum of three days (or three weekends). Having two small children and a wife who really couldn't understand why detailing our daily drivers could take three days each (she expected it to be finished same day and fast :doh ) was just not something I could continue - especially with any level of enjoyment. :argue

For $20, ZFX added to Zaino has changed the process completely. I can wash, clay, wash, polish, and put on 3 coats of a very durable sealant (Z2 currently) in a matter of hours, not days. Since I have a black car and a white car I can't wait to try Z5 PRO on the black G35. For me the choice of mixing ZFX and Z2 in a bottle for 30 seconds to get 3 cured coats in one day versus my old process for 3 cured coats (with washing and drying included) of 3 days or 3 weekends is worth more than $20 and 30 seconds of mixing since my "free" time is limited and nearly non-existent. I have used several products (many not worth mentioning) to compare Zaino to including Souveran, P21S, and NXT (initial liquid version) and for me, and my time constraints, chasing the perfect (or near perfect) shine every 5-6 months beats chasing it every couple of weeks. Just works out so much better for me.
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Why do you need to apply multiple coats of anything assuming your first layer of sealant completely covered the surface? :nixweiss Does applying 3 layers of sealant really last longer than just one layer?



You're assuming that you can actually build a "film" of sealant layers and it has always been debated about whether that is really possible. You may only be redistributing whatever amount of sealant you put on the first time whenever you think you are applying layer two and so on.



I just wanted to point out that you may get just as good durability from only one layer of Zaino and save yourself even more time. :)
 
chml17l said:
Why do you need to apply multiple coats of anything assuming your first layer of sealant completely covered the surface? :nixweiss Does applying 3 layers of sealant really last longer than just one layer?



You're assuming that you can actually build a "film" of sealant layers and it has always been debated about whether that is really possible. You may only be redistributing whatever amount of sealant you put on the first time whenever you think you are applying layer two and so on.



I just wanted to point out that you may get just as good durability from only one layer of Zaino and save yourself even more time. :)
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:werd: I really don't understand layering but apparently a lot of people enjoy doing so. I go a max of two coats of any sealant to ensure complete coverage and then stop.



...but then again, I'd mess around with my carb, timing, etc when I had my Chevelle looking for .05 seconds quicker ET! Do what makes you happy. :)



Sean-looking forward to your side by side testing of Z5 Pro vs Z5 Pro with ZFX. :)
 
I use the zfx for the first two applications of Z5 and then the final coat of Z2, without zfx.

Ever notice some dried product on your veh. after you thought you had buffed everything off? I do. Seems I dont get everything done quite as perfect as I would like to think I do. So, w/ two coats I hope I dont miss the same spot twice.

While one could consider the mixing of zfx a pia I prefere to look at it as just another step in the detailing process that allows me to arrive at the best possible finish (for me) in the shortest time. Since I only have do this three times a year the time is well spent.
 
Looks like I may get the time to do both Z5 Pro and Z2 Pro on my black Porsche!



This should be interesting to say the least.



I'll be using Z8 (sorry, it's like crack to me) when I do each layer.



chml17l: Yes I WILL be adding more than one layer of sealant. That's what Zaino was really designed for. You should see some of the show cars I used to do with Zaino! They were shown inside and the paint would jump out at you and with metal halide lamps above, shine was insane.



I'll see how well the new Z5Pro does on the black as I may have a few toweling marks or other fine defects.



Now go and enjoy your finish! :grinno:



I know I will! :p



Deanski
 
I've been told by a Zaino user that from his experience 1 layer lasted roughly 6 months and 2 laysers lasted roughly 9 months. If 1 layer is 1 micron thick then 2 layers would be 2 microns thick, etc. etc. The thicker the product film the longer it should protect.
 
Not to jump into the middle of this layering biz, but I'm not sure it's a given that a second layer will build up as much as the first, since you are trying to build up on a slick surface instead of a clean one. And are you saying that a layer of Zaino is a micron thick? A micron is about 40 millionths of an inch, or about 1/100 of the total paint layer on your car (figuring 4 mils, or .004" as the paint build). So, even figuring that you don't get quite the same build on successive layers, 10 layers might get you about 5 microns of Zaino...sorry, I don't buy it. I have never heard of anyone actually being able to apply a measurable thickness of any LSP, and 5 microns is about .0002, enough to measure with an eddy current tester. And that .0002 is about 1/10 of the clearcoat thickness on a new car...if and LSP could build like that...well, we'd have some documentation of it. I think the LSP layer is a molecular thickness.
 
I don't know the thickness of any product-that is why I said IF 1 layer is 1 micron.... Collinite claims that their waxes are layerable- Zaino makes the same claim for its sealants.
 
wannafbody said:
I don't know the thickness of any product-that is why I said IF 1 layer is 1 micron.... Collinite claims that their waxes are layerable- Zaino makes the same claim for its sealants.
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Don't we always believe everything that a manufacturer says... ;)
 
Scottwax said:
:werd: I really don't understand layering but apparently a lot of people enjoy doing so. I go a max of two coats..
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Um, wouldn't two coats be layering? Maybe many people like to layer over time like the next week and stuff, it is nice to have products that do that well. Most nubas look worse with many layers IMO, and sealants look better or the same. Wax isn't as transparant, thus too many coats just become cloudy, for lack of a better word. Just feel like stripping it and starting over all the time. If you layer a sealant you renew the durabilty, so even if you are layering after a week or two, your also extending the durabilty a week or two, IMHO. Has anybody tested one vs multiple coats on the same panel?? Has anyone tested zfx/z2prox2 vs just z2Pro on the same panel? Than we might find out if ZFX is a unecessary product or if it is really good for protection purposes. Just curious if anybody has tested Collinite against Zaino for durabilty. Sorry to hijack but it looks like the thread went towards an open discussion about nuba vs sealant.
 
Its hard to do objective testing. General opinon is that zaino will bead longer than 845 but how much longer depends on conditions. Both are good products.
 
Somebody smart once said that the car shines or it doesn't.



And those cars sure do shine. :)



But realistically you could have put Rain Dance on and we probably wouldn't have known the difference. Maybe you did put Rain Dance on! There is no Z5 Pro!?



...okay. But I really trust your opinion of the product. Probably more so than anybody here, so maybe I'll finally give Zaino (and Z5 pro) a try this detailing season.
 
Slickery said:
Um, wouldn't two coats be layering?
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I can't honestly answer that question because I don't know how you'd measure and prove it. I will go two layers to ensure complete coverage. I don't expect a better look or durability.



I will put several layers of carnauba on my car, about a week or a wash apart but that is to deepen the look and I highly doubt if I put down 5 coats of carnauba that each will build up at the same level of thickness. I also don't expect any great improvement in durability either. What I am after is the slight distortion in reflection that makes the paint on my own car look deeper and darker-to me, that looks better. I would agree if you put on a few layers of carnaubas at one time, it tends to give a hazy look. It is best to apply them several days apart. My paint may be solid black but on its own, it is more of a bright black than a dark black. Sealants only make it worse on my car personally. Other black cars, I am perfectly happy with sealants over them. :nixweiss





I have a customer with a metallic black M Roadster that I wash one month, wax the next. Over the winter, I was using Z5 w/o ZFX and topping with Z8 every other month. Even after two months (and this M was a daily driver), it was still very slick and glossy. How long would it have gone without redoing it every 2 months, I don't know.
 
Layering isn't just a sealant phenomena.



Is (XXXXX name withheld to avoid tangent discussions ;) )Paste Wax really that good? Is it really worth $xx? Let's put it this way. If you're a car guy (or gal) and have a dark color vehicle that's your pride and joy, it's time to set your priorities. There has to be food on the table and the kids have to have clothes and school books. Then get this wax. The shimmer and depth that it adds to a black or red car's finish is friggen unbelievable! And you can put layer on top of layer and finish just keeps getting darker, deeper and richer! :think2



Pro: Awesome, deep, liquid shimmer on black, red & dark color finishes.

Pro: Very easy to wipe on and buff off.

Pro: Can be layered and layered and layered!

Pro: Very paint friendly. Hides swirls.



Con: Below average durability. Plan on waxing every 60-90 days.

Con: Expensive but after you see the results, who cares!

Con: Only achieves maximum depth and liquidity on dark color paints.

Con: Requires a polish prior to first time application.



I guess in reality the book is still open and no definitive answers. :argue



Do what makes your vehicle look its best and use whatever product and technique that makes YOU feel the best.

Detailing is not an exact science. It is more of an art form IMHO.
 
Count me in as one who's looking forward to using the new Z5 Pro. And yes, I'll be mixing it with ZFX. I still scratch my head at the whole "ZFX Debate". Adding a couple of drops to Z2 Pro,Z5 or Z5 Pro then shaking for a minute & a half is hardly a chore for me. Doesn't bother me at all. I use Zaino on rare occaisions ( typically in the West Texas summers for uv protection ) & apply 3 thin layers simply to ensure total surface coverage. Zaino is the only product that I apply more than 2 layers per detailing session. 2 Layers per detailing session is the norm for me when using other sealants/carnaubas.

The Zaino product line is comprised of top notch products......that's for sure. But here's the reason why I choose not to use Z5/Z2 Pro year round......... My black sand pearl paint is loaded with silver/gold flake. Zaino magnifies the flake like no other product I've ever used. When using the Z5/Z2 Pro combo, my black truck looks simply stunning ( rich-deep-wet-reflective look ) out of direct sunlight. It drips in the shade! HOWEVER.......In direct sunlight, the flake is magnified so much that my black paint gets "washed out" & my truck takes on a Silver appearance. Oh it's shiny! It's reflective! BUT IT TURNS SILVER! What's funny is that I love the look of Zaino on other "flaked" paint colors. It looks amazing on white,silver,gray,green,blue& red metalics. Just not my black sand pearl. I will say that it looks terrific on solid black paint! I detailed my friends jet black '68 chevy & it oozed wetness & depth. To each his own, I guess.
 
you might have hit the nail on the head. I think Z2 Pro might be a touch too reflective on Navy Blue Metallic also-it seems to lose a bit of the color. Z5 Pro might look better on dark mettallics.
 
I think a lot of the disagreement here on layering is because people are looking at it as an either/or issue. ANY product, no matter how well it cures will always suffer from diminishing returns with multiple layers.



However, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that some products layer better than others. IMO, a Zaino sealant catalyzed with ZFX will layer better than other products. I can understand a lot of the skepticism about Z's layerability, particularly in light of a lot of the outrageous claims made by some very enthusiastic & devoted Z users, but ZFX is a very unique product.



Does anyone else know of a sealant/wax plus accelerant combination that when mixed together makes the product dry substantially faster? Drying and curing/crosslinking aren’t the exact same thing, but the dynamics behind their processes are similar. To me, the fact that mixing ZFX with Z sealant allows for a quicker drying time is a pretty good indicator that the product is also curing faster.



Yes, it can be a major pain for some people, but that's because it does a very unique thing (at least among auto detailing products). I’m not saying ZFX/Z-2 Pro will layer like multiple coats of paint where you can actually measure the film buildup. But by accelerating the cure time/hardening rate of a freshly applied coat of Z, I think the use of ZFX simply LOWERS the rate of diminishing returns when subsequent coats are applied without the typical few days waiting period that a lot of Autopians seem to recommend when using other sealants.



If layering isn’t your thing, then why not just use either Z-1 or Zaino’s paint cleanser if the paint needs polishing? Remember, Z-1 only needs to be used initially and then just once or twice a year after that….and it doesn’t need to be buffed off. Just apply the sealant right over it.
 
Scottwax said:
I can't honestly answer that question because I don't know how you'd measure and prove it. I will go two layers to ensure complete coverage. I don't expect a better look or durability.



I will put several layers of carnauba on my car, about a week or a wash apart but that is to deepen the look and I highly doubt if I put down 5 coats of carnauba that each will build up at the same level of thickness. I also don't expect any great improvement in durability either. What I am after is the slight distortion in reflection that makes the paint on my own car look deeper and darker-to me, that looks better. I would agree if you put on a few layers of carnaubas at one time, it tends to give a hazy look. It is best to apply them several days apart. My paint may be solid black but on its own, it is more of a bright black than a dark black. Sealants only make it worse on my car personally. Other black cars, I am perfectly happy with sealants over them. :nixweiss





I have a customer with a metallic black M Roadster that I wash one month, wax the next. Over the winter, I was using Z5 w/o ZFX and topping with Z8 every other month. Even after two months (and this M was a daily driver), it was still very slick and glossy. How long would it have gone without redoing it every 2 months, I don't know.
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Scott, I've never noticed the hazy look when applying more than one application of a carnauba. I do get the 'distorted' look though, which I think looks great. With waxes I get best results with 2 applications......definite improvement in depth and wetness after the second layer. Not sure how much of the second applicatiion is actually layering, but as long as I like what my eyes are seeing, I guess that doesn't really matter.... :waxing:
 
Intermezzo said:
Scott, I've never noticed the hazy look when applying more than one application of a carnauba. I do get the 'distorted' look though, which I think looks great. With waxes I get best results with 2 applications......definite improvement in depth and wetness after the second layer. Not sure how much of the second applicatiion is actually layering, but as long as I like what my eyes are seeing, I guess that doesn't really matter.... :waxing:
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:wavey Hi Tony, haven't seen you post in a while, hope everything is going well.



Maybe it is because I have a black car and may not have removed the second layer as completely as I thought. :nixweiss



Carnauba Jett topped with a more conventional carnauba in one session works very well though. Overall though, I seem to get a better look when I apply carnaubas at the rate of one layer per wash over several weeks.
 
TigerMike said:
Sure that car looks great, but pictures such as that really don't tell you much, and can be misleading. I think on brand new paint, just about anyone could take the same picture with Zaino, Klasse, Mother's or Turtle Wax and show the same effect. Or, I could show you the same effect with just a polish (swirl remover i.e. Menzerna/Optimum etc) with absolutely no wax or sealant on the surface, and you wouldn't be able to tell whether it was Souveran or anything else. And, with so many ways to alter/edit photos to make them look better, who can really believe what they see, unless it is on your car with your eyes. This is why I think posting pictures can be/is not a good representation of how a product really performs.



Also, I don't think this thread was intended to shun those using carnaubas. Rather, I think it was to announce/demonstrate an exciting new Zaino product, for those that are interested.
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Since this is getting a bit off topic....



I've seen Sean's work in person a few times -and to say it's impressive is an understatement. There are no 'picture games' going on with his work -ever, and he takes pride in it.



He posts pics at embarrassing angles, where many of us on the boards would not dare to go.



Sean simply posted his view on a new product, and the wolves came out. Why??



Who cares if it's Zaino, Meg's, etc....????



p.s. 3100+ views and counting. Z caused debate unlike ANYTHING I've ever seen.
 
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