Results of our Ceramic Coating Testing - 10 months later

richy said:
Hello, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you here, as I don't know you and you don't know me, but the coatings offer no chip damage protection in my experience. What is my experience you ask? Good question. I started playing with the original AQuartz last summer before it became CQ. I have also been testing Opti Coat since that time as well. I had applied both OC and CQ to my 2004 FX35 to compare them. I had CQ on the hood of my FX. I got a stone chip in it that went right through the paint and required touching up and re-sealing.

In addition, I sold my FX and bought a brand new Lincoln to which I appliced the CQ in December. It, too, received a stone chip that was a bad one. The impact in fact caused a dent in the metal and removed the paint.

So, in my experience of playing with these coatings for over a year as well as having them on my own personal vehicles, I can say that chip resistance should not be sold as a benefit for it. Not in this litigious society anyway. Yes, there are many other benefits to the coatings, but chip resistance is not one of them.



As someone who has used both CQ and OC, how would you compare the two? In particular, have you found one any better than the other at minimizing swirls? I have a black Audi that swirls like crazy no matter how careful I am. Am looking to add one of these coatings (or possibly one of the other ones out there), but really want to know what is best as far as swirl protection and overall longevity. The car is a daily driver parked indoors, but gets its fair share of the elements. Thanks for any thoughts.
 
john1r said:
As someone who has used both CQ and OC, how would you compare the two? In particular, have you found one any better than the other at minimizing swirls? I have a black Audi that swirls like crazy no matter how careful I am. Am looking to add one of these coatings (or possibly one of the other ones out there), but really want to know what is best as far as swirl protection and overall longevity. The car is a daily driver parked indoors, but gets its fair share of the elements. Thanks for any thoughts.



In my opinion, both are amazing products. (I have not tried the C1 yet which is also a contender from what I hear). They both have advantages and disadvantages. For the FX, the panels look identical. A year later and they still glow with a wet look. My neighbour bought it from my so I can keep an eye on it still, which is very nice. But, when I ask him how the panels compare with washing, he advises that the OC panels shed water better than the CQ ones do. The CQ is 1/2 through it's advertised life so I'm not really surprised to hear that. What it may lose in longetivity, it makes up for in ease of application vs the OC. I just did his 2010 Lexus with OC and will be posting that detail at L2D, where I am on the Board of Directors. (I probably won't get to it till next week as I leave for vacation tomorrow).

Bottom line is that I applied CQ to my own personal vehicles. I put on 2 coats. I find it easier to work with which is why I went with it. My Lincoln is metallic black and at 6 months old, still looks Day 1 brand new and still has amazing repellancy of water and dirt. I stock and sell both. You really can't go wrong with either. The swirl resistance I would put at even. Hope that helps.
 
Great, thanks! I would have a professional apply it so ease of application doesn't matter to me :) That aside, they both sound good, but I would lean toward OC as it should last longer (as I'm not applying it myself I wouldn't be able to re-apply CQ every few years).
 
Richy sure knows his coatings, great person to take advice from!



And I thought OC was advertised as more of a permanent coating, were CQ and AQ are just 2-3 year solutions?
 
I'm pretty sure they're all "permanent" and OC might just be advertised as such. Compared to most anything else we use, they ARE permanent.



Of course, I could be wrong about that assumption.
 
OakesDetail said:
Like I stated, "light rock" protection. One of the test cars suffered a noticeable chip after recovering the half dollar sized rock that hit it. The other two are highway and city driven cars and we have discovered no new damage or pitting on their front ends after 4000 and 7500 miles between the two.



I as well dont believe it will be any form or permanent protection against such and for your best protection a clear bra is still the arguably better way to go. However, I have even seen them sustain damage from similar sized rocks like the one that hit one of our test cars.



No peppering or noticeable chips have occurred on the other two vehicles in this rather harsh and construction ridden southeastern PA and New Jersey. So I'd have to say over the course of 10 months it definitely holds some value to it. Especially with paint as soft as Mitsubishi and Subaru, I imagine this will fair a lot better on a ceramic clear car.



richy said:
Hello, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you here, as I don't know you and you don't know me, but the coatings offer no chip damage protection in my experience. What is my experience you ask? Good question. I started playing with the original AQuartz last summer before it became CQ. I have also been testing Opti Coat since that time as well. I had applied both OC and CQ to my 2004 FX35 to compare them. I had CQ on the hood of my FX. I got a stone chip in it that went right through the paint and required touching up and re-sealing.

In addition, I sold my FX and bought a brand new Lincoln to which I appliced the CQ in December. It, too, received a stone chip that was a bad one. The impact in fact caused a dent in the metal and removed the paint.

So, in my experience of playing with these coatings for over a year as well as having them on my own personal vehicles, I can say that chip resistance should not be sold as a benefit for it. Not in this litigious society anyway. Yes, there are many other benefits to the coatings, but chip resistance is not one of them.



Richy



Please refer to my post further explaining the chip protection before yours. No fight picked here, I appreciate any input from others experienced with the products as there aren't many!



If a rock hit the paint hard enough to dent it, no current protection on the market would have benefited you as I've seen clear bras tear away at rocks sizeable. I did not deadline the product as chip protection but more resistant against "light rock damage" Just to clarify where I'm coming from.



Aquartz and Cquartz are different products to my understanding, no evolution into the other as both are available seperately? One being a spray and the other being a liquid non spray solution. Again, this is my understanding and have heard no previous relationship of the two.
 
OakesDetail said:
Richy



Please refer to my post further explaining the chip protection before yours. No fight picked here, I appreciate any input from others experienced with the products as there aren't many!



If a rock hit the paint hard enough to dent it, no current protection on the market would have benefited you as I've seen clear bras tear away at rocks sizeable. I did not deadline the product as chip protection but more resistant against "light rock damage" Just to clarify where I'm coming from.



Aquartz and Cquartz are different products to my understanding, no evolution into the other as both are available seperately? One being a spray and the other being a liquid non spray solution. Again, this is my understanding and have heard no previous relationship of the two.



No problem. I just didn't want you to borrow trouble by offering it as chip protection. You know what people are like: someone will get their car hit by a meteorite and will be pissed off at you that it didn't protect against it.

AQ came out first. I got it from Avi directly last summer. He then switched to CQ. It sounds like AQ is different now from what it was then.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Nice work!! Looks great!



I'm not looking to argue at all... Just post my experiences. I have to say I don't think they will give any rock chip resistance and no noticeable scratch resistance if a scratch is applied to them. I have done some serious testing with both the OC and CQ coatings. I think they are both good products but are very very different.

For the scratch testing I used a dry mf towel (not top quality) and a dry terry towel. I used CQ on one section with a tapeline down the middle. After waiting 7 days for total cure I completed my scratch testing with the media mentioned and found any scratches that were created in the non coated area continued into the coated area. I also did the test with a very aggressive sponge and of course the sponge scratched everything as well. I'm not taking anything away from the coatings. They are excellent products but I consider the scratch resistance claims to be proved untrue so far in my testing. Having said that my test panel paint is fairly hard and I had to work fairly hard to put scratches in the non coated area as well. Logic would dictate to me that based on the hardness of a particular paint the CQ may or may not help with scratch resistance. Would think it would resists scratching better than soft paint but it is not any more resistant than my test panel paint was. Chad made a good point the other day that the fact it helps release dirt easier also creates the byproduct of "scratch resistance" due to the fact the dirt comes off with less friction.
 
Cee Dog, you bring up a good point. I would love to use this stuff on something like a Berlina Black Honda S2000... SO SOFT.



Could you expand on what you see to be the differences between the two coatings (CQ and OC)?
 
Great reviews all around, thanks for all the input Oakes, Cee Dog and Richy. I'll have to stop by the shop sometime Oakes, you're not too far from me. As for the scratch resistance, I think it's be more "marring" resistant than "scratch". I'm still only a couple months into my testing and only have Opti-Coat 2.0, but apparently the hardness is almost exactly the same. So, from my understanding, you guys are putting it through rigorous testing "scratch" wise from heavy and unordinary tests, while it protects better from the very light marring from washing that accumulates slowly over time to create swirls.



Just my 2 cents :)
 
animes2k said:
Cee Dog, you bring up a good point. I would love to use this stuff on something like a Berlina Black Honda S2000... SO SOFT.



Could you expand on what you see to be the differences between the two coatings (CQ and OC)?



If you don't mind I'll copy a portion of the review I did awhile back elsewhere and paste it here. Still trying to figure out pictures and videos on Autopia so be patient with me. I would post the whole thing if I had the media thing figured out yet.



This is the latter portion of the review which gets more into comparison and Q&A with Dr G. of Optimum and Avi of Car pro.



Pay special attention to Dr G's closing remark in his Q&A. That is what well defines a big difference to me.



Also note that after this was written it was made available to us from Chris of Optimum that if you do leave a high spot during application of OC it can be leveled with Poliseal and a foam finishing pad.



CEE DOG said:
Coatings - Side by side:







Composition/Technology:



Opti-Coat – Ceramic-Silicon Carbide clear resin coating



CQuartz- Ceramic Nano-tech







Application Summary: (Do not apply in the sun)



Opti-Coat 2.0 should be applied section by section and any high spots that remain should be evened out with your applicator or with a paint safe MF towel asap. In higher temperatures, which is what I dealt with I found I really needed to remove the ridges as I went after each small section. It is recommended (by Optimum) to avoid buffing unnecessarily. After removing the high spots OC should self-level throughout its cure time. Be sure to look for high spots with a light source as well as shaded from light. I found the ridges in my panel while shaded that were invisible when bright light was on them.



Cquartz is applied and (after hazing) is buffed off. The wait time before buffing off hinges on the temperatures. During the first ten minutes, any spots that were missed can be touched up. But only during this time, afterward don’t try to re-fill missing spots, otherwise it can stain the paint.







Initial Care:



Opti-Coat – Allow to cure before washing



CQuartz- Avoid washing the vehicle with any soap for 7 days. Rinsing with water is ok.







Layering:



Opti-Coat cannot and does not need to be layered.



CQuartz can be layered and recommends you use 2 layers for more thickness, durability, and hardness.







Durability Claims:



Opti-Coat - Lifetime of paint



CQuartz- 2 Years





Scratch Resistance:



With both coatings being applied side by side on the same panels I’m in a good position to test this. With the tape line down the middle on blue there should be some fine hairline wash swirls showing in a couple months. I look forward to seeing which coating repels them the most.







Slickness:



Opti-Coat – Not as slick as sealants and wax are to the touch (You can use any of the Optimum Detail sprays or the Optimum spray wax to add slickness) Richy mentioned to me that Reload works here as well.



CQuartz- Not as slick as sealants and wax are to the touch but slicker than OC (Carpro recommends you use Reload to add slickness)





Care:



Opti-Coat- Washing is all that is needed. OC can be clayed but it should not be necessary and Optimum Poli-Seal can be used with a foam-finishing pad to clean the paint over time. Remember this coating is expected to last for years.



CQuartz- Washing is all that is needed. CQ can be clayed with mild clay.







Bird Bomb repellency:



Will either coating protect against bird bombs? I’m not sure about that but I would continue to remove bird bombs asap. Bird bombs can eat through sealants and into regular clear coat within a matter of just a coupIe minutes so I wouldn’t expect either coating to protect from a bird bomb for long. However I would expect it to buy you more time than a wax or sealant. The question at that point becomes: What does the coating look like where the bird bomb was? Is there an etch mark in the coating?



Opti-coat - If you did get a bird bomb etching I imagine you could remove it with Poli-seal.



Cquartz - Even if you have to polish the etched area all the way through the coating you could simply recoat that specific spot with another layer of Cquartz. I don’t believe the same is possible with OC.





Final Observations and Summary:



First off these products are definitely very different and each has it’s own strengths. Now let me get into the things I really like as well as the quibbles.



Both products look great. The real question is, how well you clay, polish, and prep the surface for application. Period. The Opti-Coat seems to be slightly darker particularly on black paint. On the black test panel I used it was noticeably darker than the CQuartz. On the blue and green cars this was not nearly as apparent and it seemed to have a slightly different affect. However there was an obvious depth to it.



I may have sniffed too many coating fumes but I think if you look at these 2 cars long enough the visual effect of the CQ seems to pop out at you a little while the OC seems to have serious depth to it. It maybe that was just the visual affect of the particular cloud arrangement I was looking at when I came to this opinion.







Faded Plastic Trim: The coatings went on dark initially but faded as they dried and in my opinion they are a waste of product on seriously faded plastic. I think some people expected them to restore in the way that C4 does and that just doesn’t seem to be the case. It could be this is just the specific plastic I tried it on and other plastics would find a different result. For new plastic trim I’m sure either coating is an excellent product. I haven’t tested either on newer plastic trim yet.





I initially preferred the glass drip/stop bottle that is used with CQuartz to the syringe style container from Optimum. Edit: Over time it has become quite apparent to me that the syringe is very functional so that you can remove all the air from the syringe before re-capping it. You don't want to leave oxygen in the syringe with the remaining product



Edit: Text removed



I found application of CQuartz to be a little easier to apply correctly for a first time user of both products in high temperatures. Clear and specific directions in the packaging would level the playing field some for me. Also, if applied in cooler temperatures than shown here I can see the Opti-coat gaining the advantage in ease of use. To be fair, with hindsight being 20/20 I should have used the foam applicator that was recommended for Opti-Coat 2.0 application. The foam applicator would have distributed the product more evenly and evening out any ridges may have been a non factor.



Edit: Now that I have had some experince with OptiCoat and understand to apply it similar to a wowa sealant (Thanks to Chris) it has become easier for me. The key is to pay attention and not leave any high spots. This is fairly straightforward if you take your time inspecting and make sure to tap off high spots immediately if you dont see them flash with the majority of the area.





Q & A with Dr. G of Optimum:





Dr. G, It was great having an opportunity to talk with you at Detail Fest again this year. I have a few questions I was hoping you could answer for everyone. This Q&A will be posted online in my Coatings Review and Extreme Testing article.





Corey, It was a great pleasure seeing you again also and congratulations on the well deserved award you won for your thorough forum reviews. Your questions here are a prime example of your thoroughness which is partly due to your engineering background.



I also want to thank Chris for doing a superb job of explaining how to apply Opti-Coat to make the process easier and more effective for all users.







1.-What would be the consequences of using more than light pressure to buff off high spots or ridges within minutes of application?



When applying Opti-Coat 2.0, the best results are achieved with an even and continuous coat. If you have any high spots, it will be hazy and stays hazy after curing. Using the foam applicator with light pressure helps even out the high spots while using too much pressure can release more product from the sponge and would defeat the purpose. Alternatively a microfiber towel can be used to remove the excess product, however, with this approach there is a possibility of removing all the resins.







2.-Approximately how many microns will Opti-Coat 2.0 add to paint?



By using the contents of the syringe on a large SUV, it will add 2-3 microns of Opti-Coat to the paint. For smaller cars you can achieve the same results with less product.







3.-Can Opti-Coat 2.0 be applied to single stage paints of any age?



Opti-Coat 2.0 was designed for clearcoat paint and it should be applied after the paint defects are removed. We have not done any long term testing with this product on single stage paint.



There are several professional detailers that have applied Opti-Coat to single stage paint after removing all the defects and oxidation with great results. They might be able to provide more information on this application but the main purpose of this product is to protect clearcoat from the elements and premature failure due to over-polishing.







4.-Consider a car with older single stage paint that is badly oxidized and faded and then polished to perfection and brought back to glossy condition. Can Opti-Coat 2.0 lock in the gloss or have any effect stopping the paint from regressing to its faded condition?



Please refer to the previous answer.







5.-Can Opti-Coat 2.0 be used on leather, vinyl, and interior plastics?



Absolutely not. Opti-Coat 2.0 is designed for use on exterior automotive surfaces only. It cross-links and forms a hard clear film therefore it should not be applied to flexible substrates including leather, vinyl, soft tops, tire, etc.







6.-What would be the outcome if Opti-Coat 2.0 was applied to a properly cleaned tire?



Please refer to the previous answer.







7.-I understand using Optimum Poliseal with a foam-finishing pad is the acceptable method of cleaning the coating down the road. Is this correct?



Yes, you can use Poli-Seal by hand or with a foam finishing pad to clean Opti-Coat or to add additional gloss.







8.-Are other Optimum products, such as OptiClean and Optimum No Rinse friendly with Opti-Coat 2.0? If they are friendly do they require any adaptation in their application compared with how they are used on non-coated paint.



Yes, we design all our products to be compatible with each other to make the process easier and that includes the products you mentioned as well as other Optimum products such as Optimum Car Wax, Opti-Seal, Instant Detailer, etc.







9.-What temperatures will cured Opti-Coat 2.0 withstand before failing?



Opti-Coat 2.0 forms ceramic bonds (Si-C) at very high temperatures and will not be damaged by extreme heat. Therefore, it can be used to protect wheels, brake calipers, engine compartments without any issues.







10.-Assuming its kept indoors in 65-78 degrees what is the shelf life of Opti-Coat 2.0 before being opened by the consumer?



Opti-Coat 2.0 has an infinite shelf life as long as moisture is not introduced into the product.







11.-If only some of the syringe is used and it is properly resealed with the cap what will the remaining shelf life be? Assume its kept indoors in 65-78 degrees.



Please refer to the previous answer.







12.-Can a small touchup spot of Opti-Coat 2.0 be applied over a previously Opti-coated panel. For instance: If you get a rock chip in your paint and need to touch it up then want to recoat the touched up area with Opti-coat can you simply apply OC to that one small area? Would there be any negative affects where the touch-up OC overlapped the existing OC?



Once Opti-Coat cures, it will repel most everything even the fresh resin. If you have to recoat a section, you will have to polish the entire panel first with Optimum Polish or Optimum Finish. Then, you will need to wipe the panel down with a damp microfiber towel to remove any residue before reapplying Opti-Coat 2.0 to the entire panel.







Thank you so much for your work on this innovative product and as always thank you for taking the time to answer my questions in such an insightful manner.





Corey, I appreciate the time you put into testing and educating forum members on how to use and benefit from different automotive appearance products. As a paint chemist, I was always puzzled why people over-polish their car paint and cause the paint to fail prematurely (we all have seen examples of clearcoat failure). Opti-Coat 2.0 is the most effective way to avoid premature failure of clearcoats.





Our research team spent over 4 years developing and testing Opti-Coat before it was released for professional use and another 3 years to develop Opti-Coat 2.0 for consumer use. This coating has better scratch and mar resistance, better UV resistance, and better chemical resistance than factory clears. Therefore the effects of the elements on Opti-Coat 2.0 is far less than factory clears and there will be much less need for polishing once this is applied on top of the existing clear. Even if you do remove Opti-Coat 2.0 by polishing, you can easily replace it by adding another coat.





Please let me know if I can be of further assistance. Thanks again.





Best Regards,



David







------------------------------------------







Q & A with Avi of Carpro:





Avi, I have a few questions I was hoping you could answer for everyone. This Q&A will be posted online in my Coatings Review and Extreme Testing article.







1.-What would be the consequences of buffing the product off too soon?



You will remove some of the coating layer.







2.-You give specific instructions on how long to wait before buffing. Are those “wait times” the minimums? What I’m getting at it is: Are there any consequence to waiting longer before buffing off? If you wait too long will it still buff clear easily?



If you will wait too long it will be little sticky harder to remover, but you need to understand , this is not exact science, there are lots of figures which effect the time and curing, temp. humidity, thickness of layering... normally you wont have troubles, its mostly need minimum time for the solgel procedure reaction to happen.



(Edit: the minimum times are definitely minimum times in my and others exoeriences. Waiting a good bit longer seems to be just fine.







3.-Approximately how many microns will (1) coating of Cquartz add to paint?



Between 0.7 ~1.5 microns







4.-Approximately how many microns will additional coatings of Cquartz add to paint?



Probably the same







5.-Can Cquartz be applied to single stage paints of any age?



Well, this I'm not sure... If it’s very old it will remove some of the paint. The effect wont be good, we tested on acrylic paint and it didn’t effect so well. Remember this is not to replace clear coat!! Clear coat has 20~30 microns minimum.







6.-Consider a car with older single stage paint that is badly oxidized and faded and then polished to perfection and brought back to glossy condition. Will Cquartz lock in the gloss or have any effect stopping the paint from regressing to its faded condition?



I’m not sure about that and can’t give you an exact answer. We usually use it on normal car painted in Europe.







7.-Should you expect any color transfer from single stage paint onto your applicator if you later apply a second coat?



I think yes, but you need to try yourself.







8.-CQuartz claims it can be used on leather and rubber. Can it be used on interior vinyl and plastics as well?



On rubber yes, on leather not really, interior plastic you can although I think it’s too expensive for that.







9.-What would be the outcome if Cquartz was applied to a properly cleaned tire?



I think it’s a waste of money to use Cquartz on tires.







10.-What temperatures will cured Cquartz withstand before failing?



For this I think you should see our flame retarding video on car paint. I think between 800 to 1000 C it started to peel the paint from the car. See the video on my site. It’s really impressive and show how well Cquartz is bonded to paint.







11.-Assuming its kept indoors in 65-78 degrees what is the shelf life of Cquartz before being opened by the consumer?



1 year minimum, keep away from moister and refrigerator.







12.-If only some of the bottle is used and the cap replaced tightly what would the remaining shelf life be? Assume it is kept indoors in 65-78 degrees.



Maybe 6 months.. that’s why we do it in small bottles, not to store much.. We have 400ml bottles for car polish stations that do lots of cars.





13.-Can Cquartz be clayed a year down the line if any contaminants stick to it?



Yes, soft/light clay wont be a problem. Use the IXSG regularly and you will be surprised how needless clay is after.





14.-Can or should a paint cleaner be used on Cquartz say a year down the line?







Once Cquartz is well dried and cured, no solvent or alcohol can remove it. You can clean it as you want.





Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions on this innovative product. It’s much appreciated by many people.





Any time!





-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



UPDATE: Months later



(UPDATED APPLICATION METHODS)

AND REACTION TO WATER ON COATED VERTICAL PANELS



Additional Videos: Opti-Coat 2.0 and Ceramic Quartz



Here is some additional media. Whatever you do don’t miss the second video after the 30 second mark. I was very impressed. The mailman happened to be delivering a package that day and when he saw it in action he asked me to tell him all about it which of course I was happy to do.





Optimum: Opti-Coat 2.0



The first video shows application of Opti-Coat 2.0. Note the speed at which the product flashes is dependant on the temperature and humidity in my experience. The application to the taillight took place on a separate occasion but was spliced together in this video.



YouTube - ‪Optimum Opti-coat 2.0 Application.wmv‬‏





The second video shows water sheeting and beading affects of Opti-coat 2.0 on a vertical panel. This video was taken a couple weeks after application.



YouTube - ‪OPTI COAT 2.0 WATER REACTIONS.wmv‬‏



Car Pro: CQuartz:



The third video shows the favored applicator for Cquartz application and then the water sheeting and beading affects of CQuartz on a vertical panel. The water affect portion was shot a couple weeks after application. My apologies the CQ application at the beginning of the video was cut short because the memory card was full.



YouTube - ‪CQUARTZ WATER REACTIONS.wmv‬‏
 
Thanks for the copy-paste, Cee Dog. That does answer some of the questions I had, but also brings up another. You can layer the CQ and reapply over areas that are polished out later, but at one point it's said it can stain the paint and on the other hand, it seems to indicate there won't be a problem. I'm guessing this might have to do with curing.



Thanks again. This is interesting stuff!
 
The staining quote was taken from info from car pro. That was directed specifically at the time during cure. So while you are applying you have a window of time to apply before you need to leave it alone and let it cure. There won't be an issue here because it's easy to see where you are applying. Now, once the product has hazed and been removed and once it's cured yo can layer the product. The staining issue (which I've never personally seen and don't know of anybody else that has either) is only during the time after the application window and before the curing of the coating is complete.
 
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