Repainted Bumper Woes

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PerfectCreature

New member
Looking to get some insight on some body work I had done recently.
Those of you who normally refinish bumpers, is this customary to send a vehicle home with these defects?

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Underneath of the bumper, both sides look like this. Paint is actually dripping off the other side.

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Crack in bumper was repaired, but doesnt appear sealed at all, so the paint shows the crack when looking directly at it. Hard to see it in the photos...
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I had the hood repainted as well, and that came back with holograms, the holograms appear to be in a vertical manner, and not all over the place.
They painted my fenders for free, but did not cover up any of the rock dents and marks, so you can clearly see where it was gone over, instead of just a small white spot before.

Are bumpers that difficult to refinish? The insurance company refused to pay for a new bumper, and sent me to this shop as it was recommended.

I am looking for some insight as to what I should expect them to do, and what I need to push them to do.

I really appreciate the help.
 
I don't know anyone on this site that would accept what is shown as a final product and actually take it home. If the insurance is involved you don't need to sign off on it. That said, if you accept it and take it home it's their word against yours. They're going to say it happened after you received the car back. That top picture isn't really clear but it looks like new paint has been scraped after paint was applied.
 
GearHead_1 said:
I don't know anyone on this site that would accept what is shown as a final product and actually take it home. If the insurance is involved you don't need to sign off on it. That said, if you accept it and take it home it's their word against yours. They're going to say it happened after you received the car back. That top picture isn't really clear but it looks like new paint has been scraped after paint was applied.
Click to expand...

++++++1 with the above...

Having learned and worked in a few shops, this kind of just awful (I hesitate to call it - work) crapola would never happen...

Dont tell me - is the name of that shop the Drunk Clown Autobody Shop???

You need to take it back and say this is all UNACCEPTABLE, and have the Insurance Co., send their person over there to verify what you are saying...
Sorry this had to happen to you..
Dan F
 
I thought so.
When i picked it up it was raining, and all I checked was that the under body panel was replaced and the headlight repaired. I confirmed that the damage to the hood was gone and and looked over the bumper and did not see anything alarming. I guess it is hard to see defects when it is raining outside.
I should have requested that it be brought inside and dried off for a final inspection.

The shop has been in business for nearly 40 years and was a preferred shop under Progressive. I expected much much more.
I am not sure if they thought I was just looking to have a quick job done to get me by or what....
I advised them that I was very very particular about my car and that I kept up on the paint.

I contacted them and expressed my disappointment in their work. My email to Progressive was very detailed and thorough.

I am hoping that I do not get the run around, the biggest disappointment is that I now will have to incur more downtime with my vehicle.

I really had no idea it was this bad as the past few days have been quite gloomy with downpours almost everyday.
Today was the first day it brightened up and I could really get a solid look at it.
 
Unacceptable, i've studied and worked doing collision repair/refinish and that is just sloppy work right there. Painting a bumper is not hard at all, the prep of surface and additive in clear may differ a bit from Metal, but the same application and basic rules apply as when painting the rest of the car. Man , i used to even repair and refinish bumpers out of my back yard's patio when i was a kid in HS and mine came out looking a LOT better than this shown in the pictures. I can even see the crack you mention,and that's a picture, which means it's a lot more difficult to tell in a picture, so i don't want to imagine how bad it must be when looking at it in person. I can also see sanding marks on the 7:00 position of that crack.

Take it back and make them fix it, watch the edges after you get your car back as well, a lot of times people will install them in a rush (especially this one becoming a rework for them) and may scratch/chip paint where the bumper meets the rest of the car, so be careful with that and inspect it before leaving the shop.
 
Migue said:
Unacceptable, i've studied and worked doing collision repair/refinish and that is just sloppy work right there. Painting a bumper is not hard at all, the prep of surface and additive in clear may differ a bit from Metal, but the same application and basic rules apply as when painting the rest of the car. Man , i used to even repair and refinish bumpers out of my back yard's patio when i was a kid in HS and mine came out looking a LOT better than this shown in the pictures. I can even see the crack you mention,and that's a picture, which means it's a lot more difficult to tell in a picture, so i don't want to imagine how bad it must be when looking at it in person. I can also see sanding marks on the 7:00 position of that crack.

Take it back and make them fix it, watch the edges after you get your car back as well, a lot of times people will install them in a rush (especially this one becoming a rework for them) and may scratch/chip paint where the bumper meets the rest of the car, so be careful with that and inspect it before leaving the shop.
Click to expand...

I took some better photographs of the damage, and have uploaded them to high quality images.
It appears they did the bare minimum and did not go the extra mile to ensure a nice clean repaint.
I have sent a link to my insurance agency of the same photos here.
It is no mistake that they rushed.

While I am unfamiliar with the processes of actual body work, they did have a decent amount of time to get things fixed up.
It gave them 4 hours to repair, and 3.7 to refinish. The hood allotted 2 hours repair, and 3.6 hours refinish. The hood wasn't even in that bad of shape. I can only assume that this was a quick buff and respray of base and clear. I would imagine that if they stripped it, and started fresh, these would not happen.
The other thing is that I would have assumed they would spray the whole hood? Top and underside? Is that not customary?
I need to know what exactly would be done, so I know what to fight for.
They blended the fenders, but stopped as soon as you enter the engine bay.

It seems like corners were cut on this job. Maybe a lot of them.
Link below to high res images.
https://flic.kr/s/aHskjmLXLo
 
PerfectCreature said:
I took some better photographs of the damage, and have uploaded them to high quality images.
It appears they did the bare minimum and did not go the extra mile to ensure a nice clean repaint.
I have sent a link to my insurance agency of the same photos here.
It is no mistake that they rushed.

While I am unfamiliar with the processes of actual body work, they did have a decent amount of time to get things fixed up.
It gave them 4 hours to repair, and 3.7 to refinish. The hood allotted 2 hours repair, and 3.6 hours refinish. The hood wasn't even in that bad of shape. I can only assume that this was a quick buff and respray of base and clear. I would imagine that if they stripped it, and started fresh, these would not happen.
The other thing is that I would have assumed they would spray the whole hood? Top and underside? Is that not customary?
I need to know what exactly would be done, so I know what to fight for.
They blended the fenders, but stopped as soon as you enter the engine bay.

It seems like corners were cut on this job. Maybe a lot of them.
Link below to high res images.
https://flic.kr/s/aHskjmLXLo
Click to expand...

When it comes to the Hood , it depends on what you asked for specifically and how bad the damage to be repaired was.

They can scuff sand the entire hood (without removing all clear or any paint on "good" areas), repair a damaged section (deep scratch,dent) ,prime that small spot,sand it to blend the texture along with rest of hood then spray the paint on the repair, blend the new paint with rest of hood and apply clear coat to everything.

I'm thinking, from when i used to do it, only reason they may re-paint/blend the fenders is if they had to re-paint the hood in an area adjacent to them and that is a big maybe. IF they in fact did strip and repainted the entire hood, then blending the fenders would be a good idea since the hood will have all new freshly applied paint and the color miss-match could be too obvious if no blending happened. In order to properly paint the top and bottom of hood they'd have to remove it so that they can get everything seamlessly, you could do it while the hood's still on the car but it would be sloppy because of the hinge areas still being bolted together and i guess as long as you don't unbolt that to remove hood then it could be ok.

They don't have to repaint the underside (depends on what the estimator's instructions were) and they can just blend the clear coat with the old one right on the underside edges where it meets other panels and call it a day, it can eventually fail and start peeling off of course, but that'd be the "safest" way to do it and probably not have any issues for a long time because the clear can stop right on that inner hood edge that meets the engine bay(metal flange on the sides that you see when you open your hood) and the small folded metal section you can see when you look at the front's edge across underside hood (the line along where your hood's striker is towards you/front).

EDIT: looked at your link with pictures after submitting my post, that definitely looks like they repainted/cleared your hood without ever opening it to properly blend anything (note the old rust chips on hood's edges and dirty stripping that could have been cleaned to properly tape those areas). Clear was just "powdered" on those edges, so since they were never scuffed/properly prepped it means they were still shiny during respray .... a good general rule of thumb i always remembered when repainting cars was "if it shines, it won't stick for long" . As already stated, dirty work environment, sloppy "repairs" and dirty worker who should have clean your paint's surface in between each coat with a Tack Rag/Cloth and avoid all those dirt particles sitting below your clear, this is just lazy work all around and has production shop written all over it.

I hope this helps.
 
Migue said:
When it comes to the Hood , it depends on what you asked for specifically and how bad the damage to be repaired was.

They can scuff sand the entire hood (without removing all clear or any paint on "good" areas), repair a damaged section (deep scratch,dent) ,prime that small spot,sand it to blend the texture along with rest of hood then spray the paint on the repair, blend the new paint with rest of hood and apply clear coat to everything.

I'm thinking, from when i used to do it, only reason they may re-paint/blend the fenders is if they had to re-paint the hood in an area adjacent to them and that is a big maybe. IF they in fact did strip and repainted the entire hood, then blending the fenders would be a good idea since the hood will have all new freshly applied paint and the color miss-match could be too obvious if no blending happened. In order to properly paint the top and bottom of hood they'd have to remove it so that they can get everything seamlessly, you could do it while the hood's still on the car but it would be sloppy because of the hinge areas still being bolted together and i guess as long as you don't unbolt that to remove hood then it could be ok.

They don't have to repaint the underside (depends on what the estimator's instructions were) and they can just blend the clear coat with the old one right on the underside edges where it meets other panels and call it a day, it can eventually fail and start peeling off of course, but that'd be the "safest" way to do it and probably not have any issues for a long time because the clear can stop right on that inner hood edge that meets the engine bay(metal flange on the sides that you see when you open your hood) and the small folded metal section you can see when you look at the front's edge across underside hood (the line along where your hood's striker is towards you/front).

EDIT: looked at your link with pictures after submitting my post, that definitely looks like they repainted/cleared your hood without ever opening it to properly blend anything (note the old rust chips on hood's edges and dirty stripping that could have been cleaned to properly tape those areas). Clear was just "powdered" on those edges, so since they were never scuffed/properly prepped it means they were still shiny during respray .... a good general rule of thumb i always remembered when repainting cars was "if it shines, it won't stick for long" . As already stated, dirty work environment, sloppy "repairs" and dirty worker who should have clean your paint's surface in between each coat with a Tack Rag/Cloth and avoid all those dirt particles sitting below your clear, this is just lazy work all around and has production shop written all over it.

I hope this helps.
Click to expand...

I appreciate the insight on the hood. The dirt particle I think you may be mistaking them for the iridescent pearl coat that my car has. It is the O2C WRB Pearl Coat.
The instructions were as I indicated. Repair and refinish hood and bumper.
Nothing overly specific.

I will be heading in tomorrow, if there is anything else at all that I could mention to plead my case, I would appreciate it.
 
Check your estimate, if they charged labor for R&R on the hood which means they were to remove it, then you could argue the no paint underneath. If they just overhauled the hood instead, that tells you they never planned or instructed to paint the hood top and bottom.
 
Migue said:
Check your estimate, if they charged labor for R&R on the hood which means they were to remove it, then you could argue the no paint underneath. If they just overhauled the hood instead, that tells you they never planned or instructed to paint the hood top and bottom.
Click to expand...

It does not state that unfortunately. It says Panel, Hood: Repair, Refinish.

The hood scoop however says remove and repair. As best I can tell it may have? I don't know.

I went over and they indicated that there is nothing they can do because the insurance estimate is for fixing the problem area alone.
It does not cover nicks, dents or otherwise any blemish that is not associated with the insurance claim.
They further stated that any failures because of these prior issues are exempt from warranty and repair work. Essentially I have no warranty on the work.

They said that they can bondo the crack and blend it with the bumper, but cannot remove it as it would place stress on the crack and cause it to break again.

As far as the hood is concerned they indicated that the chips and whatnot are not a part of the problem area and therefore are not a part of the repair.
They indicated they simply buffed the damaged area and blended the hood and fenders.

They told me to call the insurance company and request a new bumper by stating that the repair failed.
They were unwilling to redo the work, as they indicated it properly done as requested by the insurance company.
They said if the insurance company wanted it to look new, they would have ordered new.

They essentially told me it was a catch 22 as the repair was, on paper, done as requested and the issues I have are from prior blemishes not covered by the insurance work.
The insurance claim was to bring it to preloss condition, and dents, road rash and the like are present almost every time for all repairs so they are exempt from any insurance claim work. They dont do it because they won't get paid to do it.
They told me they would have 12 or more hours refinishing the bumper, let alone the hood to fix the road rash and the dings.

I guess I am unsure what to do, as they told me that they repaired it as requested by the insurance company.
They sent me on my way and told me to let them know what the insurance company says.
 
Yeah insurance company will want the bare minimum without covering anything extra or pre loss damage, even tiny rock chips . Even if the shop guys wanted to do a better job, they can only get paid for what the insurance company wants them to do and that's it, lots of negotiating between them and I've even seen plenty of body men get into it with adjusters due to the adjuster trying to rip off the body man by haggling him on his labor hrs and what not. You're more in the insurance company's mercy than the body shop. I'm confused about their explanation for the bumper crack...was that part of the claimed damage and it was just "fixed" like that? There is flexible bondo made for plastics and procedures designed for fully repairing cracks and tears on bumpers.
 
Migue said:
Yeah insurance company will want the bare minimum without covering anything extra or pre loss damage, even tiny rock chips . Even if the shop guys wanted to do a better job, they can only get paid for what the insurance company wants them to do and that's it, lots of negotiating between them and I've even seen plenty of body men get into it with adjusters due to the adjuster trying to rip off the body man by haggling him on his labor hrs and what not. You're more in the insurance company's mercy than the body shop. I'm confused about their explanation for the bumper crack...was that part of the claimed damage and it was just "fixed" like that? There is flexible bondo made for plastics and procedures designed for fully repairing cracks and tears on bumpers.
Click to expand...

The crack was fixed to look like that. It was claimed damage.
What happened was a farm truck was traveling in front of me and hit a rather large bump in the road. One of the boards from the rear gate stays fell loose along with some farming debris, rocks and hay and what have you.
The board ended up going underneath my car at the right angle to push everything upwards and break a mounting bracket, headlight retaining tab and crack the bumper. It also damaged the underbody panel which was replaced anew.

The crack in the bumper that you see was the reason for the bumper repair to begin with.
The hood had some dings from the debris that fell off the truck.

Essentially the body shop admitted that they should have gone over what my expectations were beforehand to avoid these issues.

The insurance company talked this place up as the place to go to as they were hand picked by them as the best in the area.
So that is why I went there.
 
That being part of the damage ,it should have been repaired properly, and if the body man says that's as good as they can do then they should have communicated that to the insurance company and that could have gotten you a new bumper . Since the objective was to repair to a pre loss state, and that crack happened during the accident, I'd say the repair needs to be re done then because a pre loss state = no visible crack\tear on bumper.
 
The insurance agent contacted me and reviewed the same photos I uploaded here and agreed that they did not appear to repaint the hood or bumper and merely blended the majority of it.
They said they will see what they can do as far as getting things redone, but stated blatantly that I will not be receiving a new bumper.
They also told me that the shop should have reviewed these things prior, and even though they did not do so, it doesn't matter at this point, because the work was already done, and they will have to be paid for it.
Best case is that the shop covers the bumper and repaint and redoes the hood properly and reblends the fenders. Worst case is they simply spot fix the cracked area and send me on my way.

They indicated they may have to send an adjuster our to correlate my photos as being actual issues present and not issues prior.
They told me they would be contacting the shop and that it is essentially their word against my own.
The agent did not have very much hope that anything will come of this and basically hinted that it is what it is.
It does not look promising....
 
It has always been my feeling that one should find a bodyshop that they trust as opposed to one recommended by the insurance company. I'm very picky as are most members of this forum. You've got to have confidence in the persons/shop making the repair. It shouldn't be based soley on the fact that the bodyshop and insurance company are in it together, you aren't required to go to "their" bodyshop. No doubt that they know how one another work and deals are cut.

As far as repairing to pre-accident state. If you can see the crack in the bumper then it has not met that qualification. In the end you may not get what you want but I'd be on them like bees on honey until I had exhausted any recourse I might have. Let them know that you're OK with them not replacing the bumper but they are responsible to make it look and perform the way it did prior to the accident. That of course means you won't see it 3 months down the road either.
 
That's too bad, sorry to hear that.

There's always something when trying to get something through insurance companies. Yes you have to accept that pre loss blemishes and damage will not be taken care of, but I find it hard to believe that the body shop did such a poor repair on that bumper crack and are telling you that's as good as it'll get.

Good luck with all of this and I hope they are able and willing to re work it and make things look better.
 
Migue said:
That's too bad, sorry to hear that.

There's always something when trying to get something through insurance companies. Yes you have to accept that pre loss blemishes and damage will not be taken care of, but I find it hard to believe that the body shop did such a poor repair on that bumper crack and are telling you that's as good as it'll get.

Good luck with all of this and I hope they are able and willing to re work it and make things look better.
Click to expand...

Thank you.
I was able to make contact with the insurance company, and they sent out an adjuster. Upon further inspection we found what made my heart sink even worse.
Not only did they do a poor job on the repair, they did not even do it correctly.
They installed the wrong lower engine bay cover, that while fit (with some extra screws into something that I am not sure) was not OEM, nor a correct fit. There is a major gap which the adjuster indicated would allow plenty of snow and debris into the engine bay to freeze, and thaw.
They also did not appear to even remove the bumper to paint it. There were several plastic clips that were painted over, when if they had been removed, would have not been painted over.
The adjuster advised me that he does not feel the bracket was even replaced, given the gap on the left side where the broken bracket was, and the lack thereof on the right. There is a considerable distance between the left fender and the headlight as well.
The bumper cover had the left half painted slightly, and what he seems to think blended with the right half that was not painted. He indicated that he could tell this by the orange peel effect on the left, and no such effect on the right.
Another indication of a poorly done job.
He indicated that he is very confidant that they did not even remove the bumper, based on the dripping from the road rash area, and the painted over clips and push pins.
He confirmed my fears by indicating that not only is the hood paint going to peel, but the bumper will most likely do the same.
To make things worse, the shop declined any warranty due to previous defects.

After almost 2 hours he decided that this was a very poorly done job, and that unfortunately, by "normal" peoples standards is acceptable work. Typically he indicated, this is something that has presented itself as the norm, because most people would never look this closely at their cars with such a strict eye.

He did say that the shop may have trapped me by telling me they could repair the tab on the headlight instead of replacing it like the insurance company indicated they do.
The adjuster said he is kind of in a rock and a hard place, because where I paid them, and the work was done...he may not be able to do anything.
He also indicated that since I allowed the shop the repair the headlight, rather then fix it, they may use that against me, even though I did so based on their word that they could fix it to be like it was before the accident.

I hope to be able to upload photos at some point showing that this was resolved in my favor and done properly.

I appreciate all the support.
 
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