Removing wheels

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efnfast

New member
For those who remove wheels to clean them, I'm curious if you carry some type of mechanics insurance (i.e., something beyond any type of insurance you'd carry as a detailer), in the event something ever happens.



I know obsessive compulsive autopeans will torque the nuts on properly and check them 4x to be certain, but if something happens as the person's driving away (not due to your own fault), you can bet whose going to be included in any lawsuit.
 
There's no such thing as "Mechanics Insurance". This type of loss would fall under a General Liabilty portion of a policy which is pretty standard.
 
Really? I figured there was specifically some type of policy for doing mechanical-based work on vehicles....the risks/damages/etc... a detailer faces would be different than a mechanic or bodyshop, so I figured the policies would be different to reflect that.
 
You can always incorporate your business so that your personal assets will not be affected by any liabilities pertaining to your detailing business. Incroporation, however, makes tax and profit calculations more difficult. Your profits come in the form of "dividends".



Otherwise, a trustworthy torque wrench is still the way to go. Sometimes you cannot avoid damages completely due to other external factors.



Speaking of torquing wheel lug nuts, I was helping someone replace the brake pads and rotors on his 2004 Tundra. While putting everything back together, one of the lug nuts on the hub snaps off for no apparent reason. Turns out that the owner of the truck had a tire repaired by a tire shop, and the shop over torqued his wheel lug nuts.

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When this sort of thing happens, it gets awkward. You did not cause any damage, but the damage occurs while you are working on the vehicle. If you can avoid removing the wheels to clean the car, avoid removing the wheels to clean the car. Period.
 
I have a question regarding torqueing. How do you know or find out how much torque is required for wheels, on different vehicles?
 
some companies put it in their owners manual.. im lucky to have access to alldata at my school.. thought its only for like 6 more months.. i suppose after then id just use common sense... perhaps you could just use a simple internet search for each car you're going to remove the wheels from and use common sense, as in, if someone says 40 foot pounds, and another person says 190 foot pounds. they're wayy off base.. **most** will be within 75-110.
 
RustyBumper said:
I have a question regarding torqueing. How do you know or find out how much torque is required for wheels, on different vehicles?
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When in doubt, 85lb-ft is always a safe setting for passenger vehicles. From a Honda Civic to a Tundra, the OEM wheel nut torque range is approximately about 80-90lb-ft of torque. The exact amount of torque is not as important as equal torquing between all lug nuts. The class, grade, and thread pitch used by many wheel studs and nuts are capable of about 120lb-ft of torque safely. They can handle this kind of torque and stress without any problem. Manufacturers usually suggest a lower torque specification for easy removal.
 
Removing the wheels for a detail would fall under general liability.



Napa puts out a guide its desinged more for a brake/tire shop. But it has all the wheel torque specs for EVERY vehicle updated every year. I think it costs 30 bux.



Its not about OCD autopians for torqing lugnuts. Its actually industry standard.



When you tighten a nut. The threads "stretch" The more you tighten the more you stretch. Which can eventually cause failure as seen in the previous posters picture of a snapped off wheel lug stud. When you overtighten a nut. You put extra stress on the threads of the lug stud. Metals are treated to be a certain strength. By alloying and Heat Treating. Based on its end use If it was designed to handle lets say 100ft. Lbs. of torque. It can handle much more But will be stressed stretched, causing thread damage and eventual failure



On top of that. Torqing wheels are for preventing rotor damage. as you can warp the rotor easier by overtightening lugnuts And in the even the owner gets a flat tire And needs to change it on the side of the road. Its easier to remove lugs that are properly torqued vs. The ones that where spun on with a High powered gun. Or that were Wrenched by a guy who tries out for an Ironman competition.



A snapped off lugstud is a rather cheap fix. 50 bucks tops. Unless your talking a Very high end vehicle or a Porsche where the lugs are screwed right into the hub.
 
I'm 50/50 on the bench about removing a customers wheels on detailing. If a wheel detail include wheel pull or balls to walls detail is implied, I would assume you - the detailer carries all the insurance in the world to cover these things. stuff happens and you should be covered.



not a good analogy but I bought a used brake kit for 10K. Not my mechanics fault, but a week after they were put in, brake hose burst. I suspect prior owner was not careful supporting the caliper (ss hose line) when removing them. sh1t happens...

thankfully it burst while I was pulling out on the street and was able to drift into a curb with no damage to anything.



I know it's not 100% and much harder to seal a wheel, but ACE Powersticks rock and I get my wheels 90% clean with them....without taking anything off, and they are much less abrasive IMO than some of the other ez detail brushes I have seen on the market
 
I never do and never will remove the wheels or anything of that nature... you can torque it correctly with 15 different torque wrenches and reference 15 different guides as to the torque value but at the end of the day, you did all that and that's who it's coming back to if anything goes bad. You can bet your *** that if the wheel breaks your name will be on the lawsuit right along with the wheel manufacturer, tire installers, etc. Seen it happen, and won't let it happen to me.



Wheels can be fairly easily cleaned from the front (facing away from vehicle) and also can be brought to you off the car for a thorough cleaning.



Just my $0.02
 
lecchilo said:
I never do and never will remove the wheels or anything of that nature... you can torque it correctly with 15 different torque wrenches and reference 15 different guides as to the torque value but at the end of the day, you did all that and that's who it's coming back to if anything goes bad. You can bet your *** that if the wheel breaks your name will be on the lawsuit right along with the wheel manufacturer, tire installers, etc. Seen it happen, and won't let it happen to me.



Wheels can be fairly easily cleaned from the front (facing away from vehicle) and also can be brought to you off the car for a thorough cleaning.



Just my $0.02
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+1



Seen too many folks get burned by this type of thing... won't be letting myself get into that type of hole either.
 
You can certainnly cover yourself with an auto repair shop policy, which does offer different coverages from the standard general liability policy.Because of our limousine service, I have been enrolled in a variety of different policies. With the recent launch of our SF Bay area location we've added a new policy and I've learned more than I ever wanted to know about insurance.



Over the years, we've went from Business Liability and General Liability to adding Broadened Garage Liability and Business Income Coverage to bagging all of it and converting to a $3m umbrella policy. We have gotten our ins. through our Wells PCS rep. You can talk with your ins provider to get an idea of what works best for you. My suggestion is that you make a list of what most concerns you about your exposure. Dealing with insurance is right up there with dealing with regulators when thinking about how big of a pain it can be. Do your homework and protect yourself!! You're not going to be able to offer true full-service to your clients if you limit your capabilities.



Andy
 
Sure over torquing a nut/lug can and has caused premature failure but if you use a tq wrench that is calibrated you relieve a lot of liability.



Sure a wheel COULD come off while driving down the road. But the chances of all 4-6 studs breaking at once on the same wheel while driving are crazy slim.



At the end of the day you can remove wheels or choose not to based on liability. But take a look around at how many tire shops there are. Somehow they seem to stay in business despite the fact 95% of them over tq the CRAP out of every single stud.
 
I never seen so much over-analization with the simple operation of removing & installing wheels. There's not any real science to it as long as you have proper training, use your head and the proper tools. 100's of thousands of wheels get R & I'd every day without incident. It's not a big deal.
 
David I've been torquing my own wheels by hand for years.... it's not rocket science and it's a piece of cake... however, due to the possible liability for damage, injury, death, and also due to the fact that 99% of the wheels can be cleaned easily without any removal has made my decision not to remove them even easier. Why bother if you don't have to... if it works for you keep doing it by all means, I just gave my opinion, which is different but far from wrong. I will not change my ways, you will not change yours, but the OP has 2 points of view now, which is always a good thing.
 
I see, understand and respect your point 100%. Believe me, if I can spend an extra 30> minutes to avoid removing wheels I do and will(it's a matter of using the least evasive process). But, moving forward, it's impossible on jobs where you're cleaning suspensions. Pulling the wheels is a mandatory operation and people who opt to take on this operation need to know proper processes.
 
As with all jobs, do your homework first, have the correct tools and if not happy dont even attempt it, IE:

New Aston Martins - this one didnt have a jack, they supply tyre weld to get you to the nearest garage. The cut outs on the new alluminium chassis are meant for the garage lifts/pads only, you can easily go through the sub frame. Wheel nuts are first torqued to 90lbs then finished off to 130lbs, so you need a heavy duty torque wrench. The paint on the wheels is very soft, easily marked with the wrench.

Bentley Continental GT - has air suspension, you have to de activate this first before you jack the car up, refer to owners manual. A very heavy car, make sure the surface you are jacking off can take the weight. Again spec in book says torque to 90lbs first then finish off at 135lbs. You then have to re activate the air suspension, but the manual does say this is done automatically once the car goes above 10mph.

Cheers john.
 
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