Reliability for lots of miles. (150k to 200k)

C

CharlesW

The Rainmaker
Since my old mini-van has about 150,000 miles on it, I thought I should start thinking about a replacement.
Some of the issues involved:
1. Has to be a mini-van.
2. I am a GM fan, but have owned Ford and Chrysler products with good luck.
3. Some of my questions/concerns;
(a) GM intake gaskets are a well known problem on the 3.4 engine, but I have a good idea as to the cost of replacement. I can accept that risk.
(b) Ford 3.8 engines have a headgasket problem that may or may not be corrected in the past few years. This cost is unknown to me, but I will be checking it out shortly.
My interest here is if it is a problem that Ford has corrected in 2002 or later years.
(c) Ford has had some transmission problems as well. Is this corrected in later years, 2002 to date?
(d) Chrysler transmissions have been less than reliable, but I have been told that a good transmission repair facility can correct the factory problems if you have to have one rebuilt.

If I limit myself to GM, then I don't have a lot of used vehicles to look at.
I have been very satisfied with the Pontiac, but the simple fact is, There's just not a lot of Ventures or Montanas available.

If I include the Windstar, there's lots more of them. I do like the vehicle, but I don't like the 3.8 reputation. (Which may not be deserved anymore)

If I include the Chrysler products, the market is full of them, but the transmission reputation bothers me a little.

Given what I know, the $500 to $600 GM intake gasket replacement sounds better than the $1,500 to $2000 for the head gasket replacement on the Ford. (Which might reoccur) The $1500 transmission repair on a Chrysler product doesn't sound that appealing, but if it was a one time thing, I would factor it in when shopping for a vehicle.

How about some comments/input?

Charles
 
Instead of choosing a vehicle where you know what you'll have to replace, why not choose a vehicle that won't wear out? I know more than one Honda Odessey driver with more than 200,000 miles on their ride. If I ever buy a mini van then its going to be an Odessey. That's not just because I like Hondas either. They are good looking vans that have a lot of the comforts that I like.

I'd never buy a Ford anything unless it was a truck. I've got no love and not respect for any of their other automobiles. GM is slightly better, but still has nickel and dime issues at certian points. My Hondas have been the most trouble free lowest maintaince vehicles I have ever driven. Granted I'm only 29 years old, but I've had Hyundais, Chevys, Fords, Subarus, Hondas, and Toyotas. Out of them all the Hondas were the most reliable. Hyundai threw a rod. Chevy threw 3 rods (lots of engine replacements). Subaru eventually died of electrical problem at 260,000 miles. Honda never ever had a problem. Sold a 10 year old Accord with over 160,000 miles for over $5000. Ford blew a head gasket under 100,000 miles. Toyota was pretty reliable, but the 4wd broke on my 4 Runner after 4 years and the clutch went after only 60,000 miles.

Maybe I'm just unlucky with the rest of em... but the Hondas never gave me any problem at all. If you haven't looked at the Odessey, then you should take a peek. They are really quite nice.
 
Jngrbrdman said:
Maybe I'm just unlucky with the rest of em... but the Hondas never gave me any problem at all. If you haven't looked at the Odessey, then you should take a peek. They are really quite nice.
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Unfortunately, I have looked at and priced them. To justify the difference in cost of buying a used Montana or a comparable Odyssey, the Odyssey would have to last 2 to 3 times as long.
Also, the cost of parts or repair of the Honda is much higher. Price a starter or an alternator for a Honda compared to a GM.
I don't question the Honda Odyssey quality or reliability, I just can't justify the price.
Also, just try to find a good used one at any price.

Charles
 
That's why they are so great. They hold their resale value because people know they don't break down. Parts may be expensive, but that is just to offset the fact that they won't sell many replacements. ;) I understand the cost thing though. They are the Ferarri of mini vans and don't come cheap. Hopefully by the time I need one I'll be a gazillionaire. Hmmm... I better get working then. :lol
 
My father has a Ford Windstar. For about 2 years now has about 60k on it No problems. Runs well ect. I personally hate driving it as it feels like a boat but then again I drive a Mustang and a Sable. There is plenty of room seats come in and go out easily ect. I think they changed the model name to the Free star. The one thing Ive come to like though is the Power sliding doors and opening lift gate .. .You don't think about it .. but its the little things that are nice!
 
Honda Odessy is would be my first minivan choice by a long shot...And I live in the Motor City. LOL
 
CharlesW said:
Also, the cost of parts or repair of the Honda is much higher. Price a starter or an alternator for a Honda compared to a GM.
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Everyone says this! I have owned a 90 Civic an 2001 Civic and parts for them both where no more than any of the domestics I have owned.
 
The windstar 3.8 head gasket has been long repaired along with the mustang 3.8. I should know I worked at Ford as a tech helper with the recall came through. God I hated doing them but once the recall was done "correctly" they never came back. Believe it or not besides the head gasket they were never in for any serious repairs at least while I was there for 2yrs.
 
I have an idea...Instead of a Windstar why not go for the Mercury minivan that is the same as the Windstar (I totaly forgot their name). I heard those have Nissan engines in them.
 
Bob said:
I have an idea...Instead of a Windstar why not go for the Mercury minivan that is the same as the Windstar (I totaly forgot their name). I heard those have Nissan engines in them.
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Actually, the Mercury mini-van is a rebadged Nissan Quest. And that series of Nissan engines doesn't have a stellar reputation, either.:)
 
CharlesW said:
Actually, the Mercury mini-van is a rebadged Nissan Quest. And that series of Nissan engines doesn't have a stellar reputation, either.:)
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Oh ok. I can see it now. LOL I thought the engines were supposed to be better but it is the other way around?
 
Bob said:
Everyone says this! I have owned a 90 Civic an 2001 Civic and parts for them both where no more than any of the domestics I have owned.
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My only experience with a Honda was my son's Honda Prelude. It needed a cam seal and a transmission seal at different times, in something less than 70,000 miles. Synthetic oil was used and changed every 3,000 miles with all other service intervals done per the owners manual. Good car? Yes. Great car? No way. Then there was the rust problems that you see on most Honda fenders. I didn't even have to tell the body shop where it rusted through. They told me over the phone with the comment "that's where they all rust".

Charles
 
Bob said:
Oh ok. I can see it now. LOL I thought the engines were supposed to be better but it is the other way around?
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Just my opinion, but I think the Honda and Toyota engines are extremely durable, but not totally trouble free. I also think the other Japanese auto makers have benefited a great deal from the Honda/Toyota reputation.

Charles
 
Charles, we've only owned 1 minivan, a '89 Plymouth Voyager. Bought it new and ran it for 7 years and 150K miles. At 99k it required a valve job and a replacement transmission. On the transmission, the shop let us know that the unit wasn't even worth rebuilding. The transmission shop is a family owned and operated shop which has done work for three generations of my family, I trust their work and their word. The vehicle was meticulously maintained. Oh yeah and let's not talk about the peeling paint on the hood and leading edge of the roof. :( Chrysler offered no remedy. It will be a long time before I would trust a Chrysler product enough to purchase one again.

As for the myth that is the ultimate reliability of Hondas. We bought into that myth when we bought a used (2 y/o) '98 Civic EX (@ 50k miles) for our daughter. It's on it's third AC compressor and according to Honda, this one too may be short lived. That has been the most expensive mechanical repair, but not the only one. Cosmetically paint and body could be compared to a late '70s Japanese vehicle (that's not a compliment).

I personally like the look (fit and finish) of the newer Nissan Quests, but haven't had the opportunity to drive one. We rent a minivan each year to drive on vacation. I've been in a few over the last several years.

Good luck on your search. BTW why a minivan? Aren't you past the "soccer mom/dad" time in your life? :D
 
Many thanks to those that have responded. Whether or not I agree with your opinion, it is still good to hear from others.

The Ford 3.8 headgasket problem seems to be much less common after 1998, but I do get a kick out of the dealers at the auto auction. The first thing they do if a Ford has a 3.8 motor is smell the exhaust for coolant. :) The Windstar looks good if it no longer has engine problems.

The Odyssey would probably be my first choice were it not for the fact that they cost almost twice as much on the market a couple of years old. They might be better, but I'm not convinced they are twice as good.

The 2003 Grand Caravan I looked at this week made such a clanging sound when I closed the sliding door that I was afraid I had caught the seat belt buckle in it. That was just the normal sound of them. The transmission problems seem to be occuring in well over 50% of the Chrysler owners I have talked to and I think they have been crossed off my list.

I also think that any Nissan engine problems are pretty much behind them and I like the looks, fit, and finish of the Quest as well.

My reason for wanting the mini-van is our trips to the lake. With a car, you have to be sure to pack everything just right so you can fit it all in. With the mini-vans, (we have had them since the fall of 1987), you just open the doors and throw stuff in. :) When I have to give up the lake and boating, the van will no longer be needed.

Charles
 
You might want to look at Mazda's MPV series. I had a '91 and drove it for 15 years. Put a whopping 294,000 miles on it. I replaced the radiator and water pump, re-built the trans at 210,000 and normal maintenance items. Great vehicle and their pricing is pretty reasonable. I ended up selling it for $800 to a resturant for home delivery service....it's still going.
 
If price is an issue take a look at the lx model Odyssey. You lose alloy wheels, power doors and the radio is a little lower quality, but overall the engine and external components are all the same. Stay away from the 98 and older models though. Those might get you in some trouble. If I had to choose between the others I think I would go with the Ford. We had one for a little bit before there was no longer a need for a van. The ride was decent and no troubles from 50000-85000. The Odyssey is the way to go though. Get the 105,000 done and take a hit in the pocket book, but it will go for another 105,000 with no problems.
 
jdubb5005 said:
If price is an issue take a look at the lx model Odyssey. You lose alloy wheels, power doors and the radio is a little lower quality, but overall the engine and external components are all the same. Stay away from the 98 and older models though. Those might get you in some trouble. If I had to choose between the others I think I would go with the Ford. We had one for a little bit before there was no longer a need for a van. The ride was decent and no troubles from 50000-85000. The Odyssey is the way to go though. Get the 105,000 done and take a hit in the pocket book, but it will go for another 105,000 with no problems.
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CharlesW said:
The Odyssey would probably be my first choice were it not for the fact that they cost almost twice as much on the market a couple of years old. They might be better, but I'm not convinced they are twice as good.
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Like I said earlier and as you mention, price definitely is an issue.
From Edmunds Used Car Pricing Guide:
All 2002 models with 55,000 miles and comparable equipment. (Automatic, Power steering, brakes, locks, windows, CD player, etc.)
Honda LX Trade in = $14172, Private party = $15289, Dealer = $17242
Windstar Trade in = $8716, Private party = $9775, Dealer = $11699
Montana Trade in = $11136, Private party = $12420, Dealer = $14659
Montana SWB Trade in = $8993, Private party = $10045, Dealer = $11910
To me, that's some seriouis difference. From $3,000 to $5,400. The higher price Montana is at a price disadvantage since it is only available with all the bells & whistles.
Hey, keep up the suggestions, I still am undecided.
Also, the Ford headgasket replacement would be $800 to $1000 rather than my $1500 to $2000 guess. (And probably wouldn't be an issue with a 2002)

Charles
 
Hi Charles,
I'll just throw in my $.02

I have had used cars most of my life and of all of them the Ford has been good to me (I don't know if it's luck or not :lol).

I believe that Ford had addressed the head gasket problem on the 3.8, the one thing that was a potential problem was the tranny, but that was somewhere around the 125-150k mark (but I was kinda hard on my cars :-p)
Also had a Nissan Quest (wifes car) that was quite reliable but that was a 95 or 96 model.

Not too much experience with imports, I like to buy American.

Good luck and happy shopping
"J"
 
hey charles, here is what i know. i work at a g.m. dealership. thw montanas and ventures are great vehilces. there is actually a service bullitn in canada here on the intake gaskets for extended warranty coverage. i am not sure about in the u.s. so that might be some relief. as far as other vans, i am not a fan of fords or chryslers, i don't like there looks and there reps aren't the best. our local fibrenew rep has an older honda odessy van with no word of a lie, over 1,000,000 kms on the original engine. i couldn't believe it. he says the timing belt is the worst part of those vans because they are expensive. next time he is in i will take a pic of his odomoter. also check with the local rental car companies. if the idea of owning a daily rental doesn't scare you, when they reach about 40,000 km's(in canada) they sell them dirt cheap to try to get rid of them rather then dealing iwth an auto auction. hope any of this helps you out. good luck
 
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