Red spots from hell

[jayzbird]

Hi All-
I`m trying to understand what I`m dealing with here. Every Summer/Fall in central CA I get these spots only on the flat surfaces on the cars stored outside in the open (not under any trees).

After wash. Unless there is very fresh LSP (usually Collinite, but an older car had the same issue with Opti Coat), even robust washing does not phase them:

I`d figured it has to be rail dust. We do do live on a moderately busy 2-lane road with a stop sign out front.
So let`s try IronX. There is definitely some iron there, but the purple streaks are *not* coming from the orange spots

After leaving IronX on for several minutes. It has barely phased them.

The only thing that seems to get them off if full strength OPC + clay, which of course wipes out the LSP.

So to the brain trust, does anyone know what this might be and what else other than heavy claying with very strong cleaner may help clear them?

 

[wannafbody]

Maybe that`s a fungus of some type

 

[Old Pirate]

Looks like Artillery Fungus to me. It could be mixed in some type of Iron Particles or fallout.

 

[jayzbird]

Thanks for the replies. Boy, I never would have thought of that. I did think initially it might be some sort of tannin stain from redwood mulch we have. The stuff either doesn’t occur or does gradually wash away in rain as it only appears badly in Summer/fall in Ca when we get no rain. Whatever it is, it seems to land on the surface and the spots form when it dews overnight.

 

[Accumulator]

I never did make my usual suggestion: inspect the spots under magnification.

Oh, and I`ll add another broken-record suggestion: might oughta try a different LSP that protects/sheds contamination better.

Not that I`d expect either of those suggestions to be some magic cure or anything...

 

[jayzbird]

Thanks for the response. I guess I’m not sure what I should be looking for under the magnifier? One thing I was wondering, perhaps this is rail dust after all but perhaps Ironx fails to work once the chemical reaction to iron oxide has occurred? I’m all ears with regard to LSPs. I used Collinite thinking it was good in this regard. I’ve since started trying Opti Seal, but frankly no LSP seems to hold up in my driveway. I opti-coated a previous car and it didn’t seem to hold up very well for the prep time invested up front.

 

[Accumulator]

Thanks for the response. I guess I’m not sure what I should be looking for under the magnifier?

Oh man, I`m wracking my brain for a response that won`t sound all smart-@$$ed I keep coming back to: "Look for a better understanding of what that [creap] might be" but I know how that`d sound!

But more seriously, that really is what I`m thinking since I have zero clue what they might be and that`s what *I* would do to try to figure it out. But then again, I have my, uhm...New Normal Vision that might factor in.

One thing I was wondering, perhaps this is rail dust after all but perhaps Ironx fails to work once the chemical reaction to iron oxide has occurred?

I have only *very* limited experience with any of the IronX products, but the one I did try (their "paste" IIRC) didn`t wow me and I figured there must be better options. Not that I know what those might be...I`ve done most of my Decontamination work with the ValuGard [sic] "ABC" system, and it`s acidic part (the "B") is pretty mild, so I`ve had to resort to some scrubbing with their Bug Pad and/or also using clay (and man does the ABC eat up clay).

But overall, I like the idea of trying again with the chemical decontamination stuff, and adding some mechanical agitation to the process, like what you did with the APC + clay. I sure wouldn`t worry about stripping the LSP, heh heh especially since it doesn`t seem to be protecting as well as you`d like.

I’m all ears with regard to LSPs. I used Collinite thinking it was good in this regard...

Hey, don`t get me wrong, Collinite *is* good stuff! I used it for ages and still use 845 Insulator Wax for a few things. BUT I get better protection/durability/etc. out of FK1000p (AKA "Big White Marine" and some other names) from FinishKare [sic there too, eh..cutesy spellings ]

I’ve since started trying Opti Seal, but frankly no LSP seems to hold up in my driveway. I opti-coated a previous car and it didn’t seem to hold up very well for the prep time invested up front.

I`ve never used OS, but IIRC it`s not known for great performance relative to what we`re discussing (not flaming it). My only experiences with OptiCoat were with their original versions and I hear it`s different now.

And some cars/conditions are simply LSP-killers no matter *what* you use...fingers crossed that`s not the case here.

SO- I`d inspect it with ~15X to see if that showed me anything, expecting that... then I`d go at it with a Ferrous Contamination Remover product used in conjunction with the mechanical agitation (maybe one of those "clay towels/pads", the things that are substitutes for the regular Detailing Clay). I`d expect that to cause some marring (sigh...sorry, don`t see how you`ll avoid that) that`ll need polished out. THEN I`d try the FK1000P, though I`d hate for you to waste $ on it if it doesn`t wow you with its performance.

Oh, and I`d sure let the Decontamination chemical(s) dwell (for as long as it`s safe to do so) so it really does neutralize *all* of that stuff, like..down in the pores/microfissures of the paint, below the surface you actually see. That way there`s less chance the spots will "seem to come back" after a while.

Oh, and Welcome to Autopia!

 

[jayzbird]

Thanks so much. Very useful info! Hard to believe this is my first post since I’ve been on the forum for 18! years now. Every other question I’ve ever had I’ve been able to answer via search .

 

[Accumulator]

jayzbird- I`m really hopeful that I`ve given you *something* of real use there, but heh heh...don`t thank me yet, let`s see if you can get this sorted out and *then* you can thank whoever`s advice was worthwhile

And BTW/FWIW, I think it`s great that you`ve always found what you needed to know by doing those dreaded SEARCH​es!

 

[Lonnie]

Here`s the link to a recent thread on the "best practices" and advise dealing with artillery fungus:
https://www.autopia.org/forums/car-d...ight=artillery

Mike lamberts suggestion is use baking soda and hot water (see post #6)
https://www.autopia.org/forums/car-d...rtilery+fungus

 

[jayzbird]

I have a bit of an update. Today I washed the other car (dark grey BMW) that sits in the driveway. I took Accumulator`s advice and examined the red spots with a 15x loupe, not on the BMW (it had so much ash from the fires that it looked like a piece of modern art under the loupe) but on the car cover of the white jeep shown in previous pictures. They sure do look like tiny rust balls. So I`ve pretty much ruled out artillery fungus. I noticed that there are no spots on the side of the house right by our mulch, and the spots are not sticky nor as "tall" as it seems the fungus residue is. Plus this only happens in later in Summer/Fall in CA, when the mulch will go months with no water on it.

I`d put Poly Seal on the BMW a few weeks ago, and as Accumulator predicted it did little to shed the contaminants. At least with Collinite for the first few weeks after application I can mostly get them off with a bit of pressure using a lambswools wash mitt. I tried the IronX again, noting that last time I forgot to shake the bottle first, so maybe I was missing the magic bit. About the same outcome as before--little impact. So it was back to full-strength OPC, which the bottle says you should almost never use, and clay. 50/50 OPC didn`t really work well, and even the full strength really only works quickly if I use it on mostly dry paint as a clay lube with the clay on the cusp of grabbing. I should note that OPC is hard on clay. On my Griot`s clay it immediately starts shedding yellow goop. The Pinnacle clay holds up better in not losing the coloring, but even it eventually starts to crumble after a few uses.

So once again I`ve entirely stripped off the LSP and this time put Collinite back on, so about the same place I started. Part of my reticence about trying a ceramic coating is based upon my experience with Opti Coat (this was the old "good stuff" before they stopped selling it to non-pros). That only seemed to hold up for maybe a couple of years, and still required claying to remove the spots except during very early days. So I think with this harsh treatment even a ceramic coat may not hold up for long.

So, long post probably of interest to nobody, but I figured with all the helpful advice offered I should at least follow up. I`ll update this thread if I ever find a better solution.

Thanks, Jay

 

[Accumulator]

jayzbird- Heh heh, well...it *IS* of interest to me

Sounds like the 15X inspection did help a little bit...does sound like some kind of ferrous contamination..or at least something other than the fungus.

Yeah...some clays dissolve almost *instantly* when used with APCs, and that happens when they`re used with various decontamination chemicals too Good to know the Pinnacle is somewhat better.

You and I are on the same page regarding today`s coatings too.

I guess it`s just "see what happens now..", hope things are at least OK for the time being.

I`m thinking you need a better decontamination chemical, and some kind of "gentle scrubbing media" (oh man, I shudder just keying that in...don`t mar up your paint something awful!) to use while that chemical is dwelling. Like...(if not the "B" I use) maybe something like Griot`s Heavy Duty Wheel Cleaner used with the ValuGard Bug Pad (or whatever they call it now).

But if you`re lucky, it`s OK for now..fingers crossed.