Recent Happenings

A

Anthony O.

New member
I am not sure if this is the correct thread to post this, apologize if not. If a moderator feels it needs to be moved to a more proper area please do so.



Without naming the forum, I do not wish to start anything here as this is not the intent of this thread, but last night I was banned from this unmentioned forum.



It came about because I was accussed of being a "sales rep" for Optimum products and that I was "spamming". Turns out though that i was not banned because of Optimum but because of another thread unrelated to Optimum, but rather another product.



This got me thinking that one must travel a very fine line between "tester" and reviewer. Can they be seperated?



I am asked to test many products, mainly for Top Of The Line, and many of them I like and many I don't. I usually only post up my results from positive experiences with these products and or tools and I do not do so because I feel obligated to do so because like I said I onlypost up my positive results. I do not get paid by anyone, I only get free products in the form of samples, as do many others on Autopia, and we all, hopefully, seek to give our honest opinions on these products.



Is it fair to only review (and only give positive reviews) those products that are somehow conected with a given site? This doesn't seem fair because a sponsers products may be aweful watered down knockoffs of another companies products.



I do not envy the jobs of moderators or Davidb because as I said this is a fine line and can be blurred quickly, especially when someone gets a new product and is really excited about it. They want to tell everyone and that excitement can come across as misplaced zeal, hence it can seem as if one is then "working for" a given manufacturer. It would also be wrong if I came across a great new product and wanted to keep itall for myself, I would then be called other names. Perhaps we all need to step back and see if we can't lessen the personal attachment we may have with these products and seek to be more objective.



I will strive to do this myself as I call myself a "professional" detailer. I apologize to any and all who may see me and my post, as a "spammer", not my intention. I only seek to inform and let others in on products and their use.



Thanks,

Anthony
 
Why do you only post the positive reviews? As long as you describe how the product worked and why you don't like it, a negative review can be useful, and it can be a positive review to someone who has different personal criteria. As long as you have info like "this was too light a polish" or "this product wasn't very durable but was a breeze to apply" etc, then it gives a description of the product that others can use to make decisions.



You know what I'm saying, though. Your reviews are like this anyway, I don't see you saying "My review: This stuff is awesome, it owns your wax. Sincerely, Anthony.".



Other than that, if you are reviewing a product that a supplier gave you for free in order to specifically solicit feedback from you, just be sure to point out the arrangement in no uncertain terms at the start of your post. Then the reader is aware and can decide for themselves if they think you are bought or whatever. :)



If some forum banned you, it's their loss. :wavey
 
Aurora40 said:
If some forum banned you, it's their loss.
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My sentiments exactly.



But I do hope you don't run into that sort of thing here. I truly value your take on various products (on the edge of my seat regarding the new Cyclo pads ;) ). But there's always somebody who's gonna accuse you of having some hidden agenda, and usually they won't use such polite wording.



And while I'd like to know about products that haven't worked out for you (and why), I do understand why it might not be in your best interest to post about some of them. I'm sure not gonna ask you to do anything that might cause trouble for you. Just because you don't criticize *bad* products, that doesn't mean that your evaluations of *good* products are inaccurate.



Since you've come straight out and explained your position, it seems you should be in the clear unless somebody wants to accuse you of blatantly lying about it.
 
Aurora40 said:




If some forum banned you, it's their loss. :wavey
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You got it.



A lot of us here count on the pros to test out the newest products because they have enough vehicles to do that they will use them and review them. Without that, it goes back to the guessing game.



But more on your topic, I see what you are saying...I think Jngrbrdman said it best, "A perfect detail is through a process not just a product" or something along those lines. Obviously you have your process down pat and it's pretty easy to work with different things. I know that I rarely HATE a product...I can always find a good in something. However, I must nitpic terribly because there are soo many closely related products out there. Sometimes it all comes down to personal preference.



A perfect example is the recent "Product Hype" thread...Many expressed they did not like some Menzerna polishes whereas they are my go-to's. It really comes down to what works for you.



In the end though, thank you for all of your reviews and I do look forward to them coming in the future.
 
It just seems strange that a company would allow an influencial figure in the detailing forums to release a review to the public prior to product release. For an example, I'll use ShoKar.



Why not just hold on to the review until the product is released?If the supplier wouldn't want you to publish a negative review of a product then why publish a good one? It's sort of part of doing business, gotta take the good with the bad. Right?



BTW, I would like to see more negative reviews. Without a few negative reviews spattered amongst the good ones, everything is the best product ever. Also, I don't have the time to test each product on the market, so I turn to resources such as Guru Reports and Autopia to help weed out the "fly-by-night" products. Leaving me time to evaluate the "better" and "best" products.
 
Anthony,



Honestly, I do not know why you are scratching your head over this. Quite a few of your recent posts have been in regard to Optimum and ShoKar, and I'm not sure I have read anything but praise. Even the highest quality products have a negative side.



Popularity lets you get away with more than an average Joe would (and if you do not believe it, look at real life examples such as celebrities). You have come across as less of a reviewer and more of a "pusher" at times. Othes have noticed and some are just blinded by your otherwise knowledgeable and helpful posts. I'm glad someone confronted you about it because I stopped reading your posts. A product cannot be and is not all praise.





**Flame suit on**
 
dternst said:
It just seems strange that a company would allow an influencial figure in the detailing forums to release a review to the public prior to product release. For an example, I'll use ShoKar.



Why not just hold on to the review until the product is released?If the suppler wouldn't want you to publish a negative review of a product then why publish a good one? It's sort of part of doing business, gotta take the good with the bad. Right?



.
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Easy but long answer to this one! ShoKar started last year and our plan was to introduce it last summer. We had the final product in our possetion and were ready to go. eShine however grew so fast and business boomed that we had ZERO time for a new product. ShoKar sat on my shelf for over 6 months collecting dust. We decided to forget about ShoKar and halted any progress. We wanted to just concentrate attention to eShine.



When we started looking for a manufacture to create ShoKar we didn't put all our eggs in one basket, we got samples from several Private Label manufactures of Car care products. While cleaning the shop at eShine we just gave all the samples we did not think would make the cut away to neighbors, friends and family. The one product which almost became ShoKar still sat on the Shelf. I was personally using it but had enough to last me 10 years! LOL. It was then I thought, " I wonder if this product could have made it along side Zaino and Klasse?" It was then I decided instead of tossing the product I would at least get a few more opinions. I knew I was biased because it was my product and I knew family and friends can't tell the difference between Klasse and Turtle Wax. I had a lot of time into ShoKar and figured, What the heck, letâ€â„¢s send it to a few people! To be quite honest, I wasn't hoping it would be an instant hit. I had already given up on it! I sent it to 10 people, people I knew would nitpick it. Upon our surprise we started getting positive feedback. This sparked a new interest in ShoKar! This leaves us where we are now, the gears have been oiled and ShoKar is moving again.



Did we intruduce the product in an unorganized way?, YES

Are we professionals, NO! LOL

Are we still learning how to properly run a buisness, Hell Ya! :D



If the final outcome is a product that pleases people down the road, the bumps and bruises along they way will have been worth it.
 
I am so happy that you only report on the positives. That is truly unbiased!



:o I really can't believe what I just read. The OP isn't very surprising but the replies make me a bit worried.
 
Corey Bit Spank said:
I am so happy that you only report on the positives. That is truly unbiased!



:o I really can't believe what I just read. The OP isn't very surprising but the replies make me a bit worried.
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Corey, I think what he means is he only does reviews on products he likes. I don't think he meant he hides the products flaws. Allowing the Manafacture a chance to change it's formula before posting a bad review would definately help out a company.
 
Corey Bit Spank said:
So you had him post a review before you had a chance to tweak it?
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In the case of ShoKar there was no tweaking due to customer feedback. We did all the tweaking ourselves.
 
eShine said:
In the case of ShoKar there was no tweaking due to customer feedback. We did all the tweaking ourselves. Also, we never asked him to post a review. I was actaully surprised to see one.
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This seems to me like a glass half full/half empty kind of deal. Anthony only posts reviews of the products that work well, and he truely likes (glass half full). If people dislike his reviews because they only state the good things, then so be it, but I for one respect your stance. Yes, it is good to point out flaws and weak points in products, but it is better IMO to point out the good things. We should choose products on their merits, not because product X has more flaws than Y or vice versa. We're human guys, we get excited about new products, and want to tell people about our good experiences with them. If we've just found a product we like, we're not going to go out and say "Hey, this is an incredible product, I've found ... Yadda yadda yadda, but it has x y and z wrong with it." You're just not going to do that.



I personally respect you Anthony for only pointing out the positives of a prodcut. Though the negatives are helpful in distinguishing between similar products, I believe on the whole the good things about a prodcut are what makes it worth buying.
 
With no personal side to anything, here is my opinion:



If a product is released and used, it deserves good and bad reviews. If it never gets a negative comment, then the BS flag should come out. Nothing is perfect.



If a product is not released, then it shouldn't be talked about period. I am testing some products, but you won't hear about them until/if they hit the market.



As far as you, Anthony, I think you are a wonderful detailer and seem to be a wonderful person. You might try to include more negatives or downfalls in your reviews, and you'll be good to go.
 
eShine said:
In the case of ShoKar there was no tweaking due to customer feedback. We did all the tweaking ourselves.
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You know, I had a post explaining things but it really isn't necessary.



I believe we both have different reasons for joining the site and different uses for the site.



:nixweiss There's really no point in me sticking around if this horse **** continues. There is no learning.
 
TW85 HHI said:
Anthony,



Honestly, I do not know why you are scratching your head over this. Quite a few of your recent posts have been in regard to Optimum and ShoKar, and I'm not sure I have read anything but praise. Even the highest quality products have a negative side.



Popularity lets you get away with more than an average Joe would (and if you do not believe it, look at real life examples such as celebrities). You have come across as less of a reviewer and more of a "pusher" at times....
Click to expand...



In all honesty i completely agree with this post. I'm not saying its intentional, but that was the way it came across to me. Especially with our recent discussions about vendor/member involvement.
 
dternst said:




BTW, I would like to see more negative reviews. Without a few negative reviews spattered amongst the good ones, everything is the best product ever. Also, I don't have the time to test each product on the market, so I turn to resources such as Guru Reports and Autopia to help weed out the "fly-by-night" products. Leaving me time to evaluate the "better" and "best" products.
Click to expand...



I'd post negative reviews when warranted myself but no one is sending me crap to test. :nixweiss I do try to post updates on durability when possible and I've started taking pictures of beading and appearance several weeks after initial use to show (or not show) how a product holds up over time. LSPs are pretty easy, polishes can be more difficult to review since you may be asking them to do more than they are capable of.





I've mentioned a few products I've bought on my own to try that didn't perform as expected (like the Turtle Wax glass cleaner...but I really like their leather conditioner) but even most of the off the shelf stuff is pretty decent if you aren't expecting boutique performance.
 
This is why I think that THE FORUM product discussion section should be limited to "how to make such-and-such a product do what it is supposed to" and the PRODUCT REVIEWS section of Autopia used to review products, and if a product was received as a free sample that should at least be disclosed.



Youse guys all know, I think the world of you. But this is kind of needed, I think.



Tom
 
I agree with Mosca. It keeps getting talked about over and over, but nothing ever seems to come of it. Just the usual, I guess.
 
Mosca said:
This is why I think that THE FORUM product discussion section should be limited to "how to make such-and-such a product do what it is supposed to" and the PRODUCT REVIEWS section of Autopia used to review products, and if a product was received as a free sample that should at least be disclosed.



Youse guys all know, I think the world of you. But this is kind of needed, I think.



Tom
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Anthony's first sentence when he did the first review on ShoKar,



"I was sent some time ago two samples of ShoKar acrylic cleaner and sealant to test out.".



He did disclose the info you ask of.



Are you guys suggesting Manafactures should not ask for members opinions through sample testing? Every Manafacture needs this feedback in order to release an acceptable product.
 
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