Questions about used high end luxury cars?

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I was looking at possibly buying a 2000 BMW 740 iL or 750 iL or a 2000 Lexus LS 400. I can probably get one of these in great condition for around the mid $20's or high $20's for the 750 iL with something in the neighborhood of 60-80K miles on them. It would be a lot of car since they originally cost $60-90K. I don't know much about the Beamers but I know the Lexus would probably be bullet proof for several more years.



My question is how much upkeep money am I looking at here? How reliable would the BMW's be over the next 50-60K miles? Any recommendations or voices of experience out there? More importantly what should I be on the lookout for? I assume timing belt/chain would be pricey?
 
A lot, even for the Lexus. For instance the 90k maintenance on the LS400 is almost $2000 from the dealer. My guess is that service from BMW is $2200 or so and the 750iL's is probably close to $3000.



A lot of it depends on any source of discounted parts you can find or any sort of independent shops you can find to service the car once you have it. This will make the Lexus cheaper than the BMW because BMWs have sophisticated (and expensive) diagnostic equipment that Lexus doesn't have, meaning any independent shop that wants to work on them has to buy it.



BMWs are mechanically very reliable, the difference between them and the Lexus is the electrical malfunctions that are expensive and somewhat common.



Now keep in mind I'm talking about the 740iL. Really think about what you're doing before you buy a 750 because that V12 is hugely expensive to maintain I'm sure. Stop by a BMW dealer and ask to see some maintenance packages on 740iLs and 750iLs and compare them. For info on the Lexus drop by us.lexusownersclub.com we have a large group of Lexus owners with many who bought 00s pre owned.



All are great cars, I personally would stay looking at the 740 and the LS and forget the 750.
 
I believe that in the JD Power Reliability survey in 2004, which surveys cars built in 2001, the Lexus LS was THE most reliable car in the entire survey. Therefore, I would suspect, that the 7 series would be pretty pricey in terms of ownership costs relative to the Lexus.
 

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After being in a family that has owned high end luxury cars for the last 12-15 years, here's my take on this:



If you don't have excess money to spend on extremely costly repairs, don't do it.



The more expensive the car, the more expensive the repairs. We have owned BMW and Mercedes, both of which broke constantly. Our first BMW had electrical system problems that never went away, our second BMW wasn't as bad but still had it's share of problems, and our last Mercedes actually required more than $12,000 worth of repairs after only being one year old (all covered under warranty of course).



The bottle line is, if you buy a used luxury car get some kind of warranty. Oil changes on Mercedes alone cost $100, but then again you don't change the oil but once every 10,000 miles. If you buy a used luxury car from a dealer, it should come with some kind of extended warranty or at least have one available. If you buy from an individual it's going to be harder.
 
The reliability ratings according to consumer reports does not fare well for the BMW 7 series. Especially years 97-99 and 02-03
 
Sorta an apples/oranges comparison IMO. Drive both the BMW and the Lexus and you'll see what I mean. The BMW is a real driver's car but the Lexus is *way* too "soft" a vehicle for me or my wife. When we're behind one my wife says stuff like "just look at how it leans in the corners, no wonder he's going so slow.." :D



But yeah, "good" cars can be expensive to maintain unless you have a good, independent garage that can work on them (and even then they aren't really inexpensive). I guess I agree with JDookie; if you really have to *think* about the costs involved you might want to reconsider or at least think about your priorities. Better cars can be really nice even when they have a few hundred thousand miles on them, but it costs a bit to keep them that way.



Remember the old saying about why so many Jags were "unreliable"- people could afford to *buy* them, but they couldn't afford to *maintain* them.



The 750 BMWs have a reputation for being *very* problematic so yeah, stick with the 740s.
 
Like GoodnClean stated, stay away from the 750's because as many people will agree, they cost a lot to service. Always try and find an independent mechanic that you are comfortable with, you will save some money. Honestly though for the mileage cars you are looking at, make sure they have records for all service, especially the BMW's. If it was me I would be most comfortable going with the LS400 :up It's a real nice car, and last model year for the 400.
 
BMW 700 SERIES electrical problems are prominent since 97. Along with Cooling problems and others as well. A risky investment in my opinion. The LS 400 is as reliable as you will find. There track record on this car is almost spot free
 
Go to authorized dealers if you plan to buy used. Many certifited used cars come with a minimum 3 year/50K warranty. As far as the 7series go my friends father has a 2002 that has never had a problem. And not to bash GoodnClean but change your own oil, Mobil1 with a quart of Lucas Syn. stabilizer and a PureOne filter will run about $40. If someone is willing to pay 150-300 for an oil change send them over to me i'll do it for $50 less and pocket the huge margin.
 
Thanks guys for the input. I realize that maintenance costs will be high for a high end car but they are a lot cheaper than monthly notes. I have never bought a car I couldn't pay cash for and have to go the used car route for one of these bad boys. I really appreciate the info about the electrical systems, etc. on the BMW's....this is what I needed to know. I know I would looking at a big pop for either one at around 100K.



Everyone has basically confirmed what I suspected all along. The Lexus is probably much more reliable and probably cheaper to maintain......but it has that mushy ride that reminds me of the land yachts from the early 70's.



I am old but I am just not old enough to be willing to settle for that kind of driving just yet. My problem is I want something fun to drive (prefer a stick) but I am 6 ft. 4 in. and have a long torso and a bad back (which means I have to keep the seatback fairly upright and not laid back). I need at least 39 inches of headroom and there are not many cars that fit this criteria (including the BMW's above). That is why I am still driving my '03 Accord LX coupe with M/T, 17" wheels, and a serious sound system. I have no kids, don't need a back seat as long as I can get my golf clubs and a subwoofer in the car I am good to go. What is out there under $30K that might fit me?
 
OutlawTitan said:
My problem is I want something fun to drive (prefer a stick) but I am 6 ft. 4 in. and have a long torso and a bad back... I need at least 39 inches of headroom ... What is out there under $30K that might fit me?
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Subarus have an incredible amount of headroom.
 
Accumulator said:
Subarus have an incredible amount of headroom.
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I second this, the new Legacys and Outbacks are gorgeous. Actually, I'm surprised you fit in your Accord, they've never been known for head/leg room.



I friend of mine is your height and fits in his 3 series fine, although I believe you'll have to settle for a sparsely equipped model to keep it under $30K. My A4 has quite a bit of headroom and seat adjustability, I think you probably could fit comfortably and I paid just under $30K for a 1.8T quattro manual. Both German cars have seats that give excellent support, I just came back from a 3.5 hour trip non-stop with no discomfort.



The first car that came to mind was a 350Z but I don't know if a set of golf clubs would fit. A G35 coupe would be over $30K but I think the sedan could be had for less. Those would be my choices for new cars, if you include used but still under warranty your list of alternatives would be huge.:)
 
I honestly don't see that much of a difference in the 740iL and the LS400, both are soft rather than firm for the handling department. The LS moreso, but not by much. If I were you I'd look into a 740i with the Sport package, I wouldn't consider the 740iL a handling car at all.



If you want to go with the LS larger diameter wheels and some inexpensive suspension modifications tune it up pretty well. Even the LS in stock form handles deceptively well. There is some body roll but from behind the wheel its not daunting nor does it lower confidence in the corners.



If you're that tall though you may not be happy with the LS400, one thing it doesn't have is a lot of headroom, the LS430 has 4 or so inches more.
 
I am more than willing to go with a used car.....that is the only way I can stay in the <$30K range and even consider the LS400 or BMW. I did not realize the LS430 has so much more headroom - unfortuantely even the 2001 is still mid $30's and I can't get there. The LS400 is a little tight but I can barely fit there comfortably. My Accord w/o a sunroof has 40 inches of headroom ... I even have a little breathing room on top.



The Legacy GT w/o the sunroof actually looks pretty good on paper. I may have to check one out.



The Audi A4 1.8T was actually at the top of my list until I tried to fit in there.....sunroofs are the problem (they steal 1.5-2.0 inches of headroom) with most vehicles and many cars just don't offer the option of not getting one. Same thing with the G35.



I appreciate the feedback and I guess I will just keep looking. If I am going to spend $25-30K I want to at least fit in the car or I will just keep tooling along in my Accord with it's little 160 hp 4 banger and manual transmission it is pretty enjoyable after getting some bigger wheels and better tires.
 
Even though it isn't my cup of tea, have you considered a 300C? Put down 25K and finance the rest with a 1-yr plan. You'll have the car paid off in no time with very minimal interest being incurred, brand new vehicle with a long warranty.



Plenty of head room.

Awesome Engine

Car of year by many

Can be easily serviced



The other nod is for the G35; see if you can get a demo from a dealer or look for someone who is trying to get out of a lease early.
 
I just noticed this post. I am 6'5" and that is the reason I got the LS400. However, I bought a used 1995 with 95,000 miles a few months ago. To date, I've changed a radio mast antenna ($20 from Ebay), done an oil change ($45 Mobil one) and replaced a worn out seat belt ($150).



The car is wonderful for me. I find that it's a near perfect fit and amazing for a 10 year old car. Indeed, it makes me wonder why anyone would buy a new Camry/Accord/Malibu, when a used LS400 would cost less even with some expensive maintenance.



Since I bought it off Ebay sight unseen for under 9 grand, I budgeted $1500 for unforseen repairs. So far, no such need.



I would not hesitate to recommend a 1999 or 2000 LS. I bet that a 70k mile one would be extremely reliable. You could get one for about $19,000 to $20,000 and if you budgeted $2000 up front for initial refurbishment, I bet you'd have a bulletproof vehicle for the long term.



I'll probably get a 2004 or 2005 LS430 in 5 years time.



I personally find the BMW cramped and the seating hard. I also don't want to have to deal with electrical gremlins and snotty dealers. I'm guessing that over a 5 year period, you'd spend thousands more maintaining a BMW over an equivalent Lexus.
 
snotty dealers
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Yes, yes, yes. Expect this at the BMW dealership.



My father is still driving his '96 LS (165K). He's replaced two headlamps and the rear shocks. His CD changer died after the warranty ran out and the dealership replaced it for free. Every time it's in there, they remark on what a great car it is, how timeless it is, see how many miles you can get out of it etc...



For a service department comparison,



My mother's two BMWs were a 1999 540i and a 2002 740iL. I won't run through the maintenance log so as to avoid irritating the Bavarians among us. I quoted because it was astounding that a dealership service department could treat you poorly because you owned "the old 7-series" or "just a 540." Those are quotes which support jvcn's words. Needless to say, my (short) mother is happy again in her G35x. At our BMW place, they would more than likely refer to it as the "cheapest Infiniti." If you are willing to trade up model years so that you remain current, perhaps they are a little more courteous. What on earth do those gents drive home?



BMWs are absolute delights to drive, but my 14-20K is in a 96-00 LS:up
 
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