Questions about Superchargers and engine mods for muscle cars

Spilchy

Spilchy

New member
I have a question concerning superchargers from manufacturers like Vortech.



I will not be modifying a car with one :p and my knowledge of modifications in general is minimal.



This is more of a curiousity question.



1) If you installed a Vortech supercharger in your Mustang for example, what other modifications do you need to do to your engine in order to accomodate and maximize its power while preventing any unwanted damage to other engine components.



If you're getting 145 more HP, I would assume you would need to do something. Or is it a "simple" bolt-on and that is it.



2) If you do NOT need to do any other mods to accomodate the supercharger, what else would you do for more HP and/or torque using a Mustang for example.



3) Can you use a supercharger with an automatic transmission? Would you need to beef it up some how?



I see these superchargers and they are insane! So I was curious if you need to spend more money on top of the $4k or so for one.



I have always wanted a Mustang (especially the 2005!), but do not know anything really about engine modifications because I am not exposed to it and none of my friends are in to it.



If you have any recommendations on informative magazines or websites for American muscle car mods, that would be appreciated.



Thanks! :xyxthumbs
 
Mmmmmm....boost!! :bow



Spilchy forced induction is the easiest way (be it supercharger, nitrous or turbo charger) to add big power to a car without tearing into the motor. Most "kits" are designed to be bolted on to a stock vehicle. As long as the boost levels (or nitrous jetting) is kept within reason AND the vehicle has received a quality computer tune then one should be good to go for many years of hot rodding without fear of breaking something. 5-6psi with a good tune added to an otherwise stock Mustang GT will add close to 100 rear wheel HP. As long as you don't beat the dickens out of the car every day then you would be fine.



That being said...most folks that are already dropping the big bucks for a blower will want to run big boost to make a big horsepower number. There in lies the catch 22. The more boost you run the more mods you will have to add to maximize the boosts levels of your forced induction and to keep the car from grenading. Some of these "must haves" for big boost would be forged internals including dished pistons to lower compression, ported heads and intake to flow the increased levels of boosted air, a boost friendly camshaft (or camshafts if it is OHC) and a free flowing exhaust system from the headers to the tailpipes...and that's just the motor. With the increased horsepower the driveline is going to need some attention...like a heavy duty clutch for manuals and a built transmission (with an external cooler and a matched torque converter) for auto's. Its a slippery slope indeed. I have been around enough performance shops in my day to know that "he with the biggest checkbook usually wins". :D



Some good magazines for Mustangs are Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords and 5.0 Mustang . For GM cars there is GM Hi-Tech.



I guess what I am trying to say is yes...a blower, turbo or NOS can be added to an otherwise stock car as a stand alone mod and be OK. The thing is...that after a while even 400 rwhp starts to feel slow...and that is when things start to get interesting.... ;)
 
Spilchy said:
I have a question concerning superchargers from manufacturers like Vortech.



I will not be modifying a car with one :p and my knowledge of modifications in general is minimal.



This is more of a curiousity question.



1) If you installed a Vortech supercharger in your Mustang for example, what other modifications do you need to do to your engine in order to accomodate and maximize its power while preventing any unwanted damage to other engine components.



If you're getting 145 more HP, I would assume you would need to do something. Or is it a "simple" bolt-on and that is it.



2) If you do NOT need to do any other mods to accomodate the supercharger, what else would you do for more HP and/or torque using a Mustang for example.



3) Can you use a supercharger with an automatic transmission? Would you need to beef it up some how?



I see these superchargers and they are insane! So I was curious if you need to spend more money on top of the $4k or so for one.



I have always wanted a Mustang (especially the 2005!), but do not know anything really about engine modifications because I am not exposed to it and none of my friends are in to it.



If you have any recommendations on informative magazines or websites for American muscle car mods, that would be appreciated.



Thanks! :xyxthumbs
Click to expand...



Answers



1. You can adjust your compression accordingly to maximize the benefit of having a SC, you dont need to but for optimal performance most people do.

2. you could *** little things like headers, exhaust, a chip or retune, gears. Now be aware that your using a mustang as an example LOL :p :p :p

3. yes you can, once again you dont need to but if your using a supercharger and getting on it more than normal you may eventually blow the trans but a good stall should make it launch harder.





I guess its more like how are you going to be driving the car. Since somepeople buy SC to race their cars and some buy it just because they want it. You can come into many problems not doing things right, however if you add a SC and just drive it like normal with some WOT drivin here and there your chances for breaking things are minimal. But then what good would a SC be.



:D
 
Thanks fellas! :xyxthumbs



I would have NEVER guessed 1 Clean WS6 would chime in :rolleyes:



What's that link to that speed shop in your area? I liked checking it out the last time I saw it.
 
The answers to your question highly depend on which exact car you own. There are some engines that can be supercharged as is with minimal changes, some require some other mods for durability. If you're interested in a new mustang, check out this forum for mustang power adders and you can learn more about exact kits that work with exact cars. http://forums.stangnet.com/forumdisplay.php?f=65
 
As stated earlier read Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords or 5.0 Mustang. A good site is www.stangnet.com or www.modularmustangs.org. You did not specify if the motor is a 5.0 or a modualr 4.6. Both motors respond well to a blower. As mentioned earlier you will want to invest in a good set of headers and a free flow exhaust and you will have to modify your fuel delivery. Most kits will include a T-Rex inline pump. If you are going to use 5-6 pounds of boost you might be able to get by with a 255 fuel pump and larger injectors. The speed shop installing the kit will tune it best. I had a very low 11 second Mustang (on drag radials) back in the mid 90's that was built by Briante Racing
 
Having a little experience with a Supercharged V6 Toyota, a few things come to mind. You are jamming more air through the system so you typically need to add fuel and alter the timing map. Many kits come with upgraded ECUs to help you on this end. Find a board that has some experience with the car and supercharger or turbo. You may want to consider a wide band air/fuel meter to monitor your exhaust to ensure you are not leaning out. Some people will recommend an exhaust gas temp guage, but I believe the better techology today is the wideband. And 93 octane gas is typically recommended.



As for the automatic transmission. When I install the supercharger the slow, soft shifts of the Toyota automatic were VERY noticable. I had the valve body of the A/T modified for a VERY quick shift (chip the tires now when I want to). With the clutch packs shifting quicker there is less wear. Consider a A/T fluid cooler (the bigger the better) and synthetic ATF. Both are cheap insurance. Plan on spending around $500 for a V/B modification.



My experience is installing a S/C is more of a journey than a bolt on an forget it modification. Do your homework first! Don't forget, you have to pay to play. But it is fun!
 
One of the most common causes for blown motors after adding a supercharger is an improper tune. I would second the recommendation that you have a good shop install it and do a dyno tune.



If you are interested in the 2005 Mustang there is a good forum at Stangnet specific to that year.



http://forums.stangnet.com/forumdisplay.php?f=84



If you are looking to really learn about superchargers and the technical aspects I would drop by the forums at Modular Depot. Modular Depot was founded by a bunch of really hard core gear heads. Modular in Modular Depot refers to the Modular motor that is found in the Mustang and other Ford vehicles. The site is mostly related to the Mustang with a few Lightning and Thunderbird guys thrown in :)



http://www.modulardepot.com/forums/index.php?s=



Although they make a great supercharger, Vortech is not the only option for the Mustang. Ford Racing is coming out with a twin screw type supercharger made by Whipple specifically for the 2005. There is also Kenne Bell who is in the process of developing a twin screw type kit for the 2005. I would imagine Roush will also have something soon. Usually you will be buying your supercharger in a kit which should come with all the hardware necessary to bolt it up. The only thing left to do is to have the car dyno tuned.



This is a link to the Kenne Bell kit for 99+ 2V Mustangs

http://www.kennebell.net/superchargers/ford/gt96-03_2v/gt96-04.htm



As you see there are choices to make and I would do some reading up on the various options to see which would best suit your needs.



Lastly keep in mind that a blown motor is just an excuse to upgrade :xyxthumbs



http://www.vtengines.com/
 
I don't think there's any REQUIREMENT for other mods when dealing with a blower. However, I always take on the thought that if you're bringing more air in, subsequently more air should be allowed to go out. So my recommendation with forced induction is to upgrade exhaust components (high-flow low restriction catbacks, possibly headers as well.
 
Vortech makes a great supercharger , but I wouldn't buy there complete kit . Buy there tuner kit and add your extras, You will need bigger fuel pump's depending on boost I use a 255 in tank and 255 out of tank. Don't use a FMU IMO. Bigger injectors 42# with a matching mass air meter . A better spark will help (MSD DIS 4 with tach adapters for mustang). Upgrading trans may be a issue or put in a 11" clutch , Also I would advise in drag radials, better rear end (31 spline axles and some 4:10 to 4:30 gears). Then the key to it all is a safe tune (dyno) from a good shop stay under 10 PSI unless your motor is built for it. My 96 cobra made 260 rwhp stock (never on dyno just avg.) to 435 rwhp on dyno @ 10 psi . You will smile ear to ear when driving !
 
I would suggest that you purchase the kit as a whole and spend some money on a custom tune. These kits are tested on stock motors so that a consumer doesn't need to go out and dump a large amount of money on a motor.



If however (or I should say when) you decide that more power is in your future then you will have no choice but to look at beefing up the internals, dealing with fuel, and upgrading drivetrain.



But for a basic bolt-on kit, I suggest a good tune.
 
if you're curious about a supercharger on a mustang, see if your local ford dealer have any 03/04 cobras. can't beat a factory s/c as they took the time to tune it and make sure it works for a long time.



but to answer your questions:



basically, if you wanted to supercharge a car, say a mustang, what kind of power do you want to achieve will dictate the extra modifications you will need.

if you wanted maximum power along with maximum reliability, you would probably would look into building an engine based on your s/c and the power you're looking to achieve all the while keeping everything together.

but if you just wanted a little more horsepower, you could get a s/c putting out 6 lbs of boost, and just change your fuel pump, injectors, calibrated mass air meter, and run a FMU (fuel management unit). so long as the fuel pump, injectors, and FMU, are properly selected for your boost output. my friend's '88 stang has a 6-lb boost s/c that is stock except for a FMU unit (i think that the engine is stock) and probably a higher capacity fuel pump.



i think most supercharger kits for mustangs are quite complete in that they not only include the s/c, but the extra stuff like fuel pumps and such. i think that depends on the output though.



3. you can use a S/C with an automatic. again it depends on how much extra power you are making that will determine what mods you need to do.



some good readings are Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords, 5.0 Super Ford (or something like that). you could always go to the source like Vortech's S/C website and their FAQ page.



also, if you have a barnes & noble or border's bookstores, they might have books that explain superchargers. there might be a couple books on modifying mustangs and usually cover supercharging them.



and if you want a blown 2005 mustang, wait until the next mustang cobra comes out. it might be supercharged.



well, i hope this info helps. :wavey
 
Well, I'm not sure if the ModMotor found in the 3 latest generations of Mustang would qualify as a true muscle car.



However, the question regarding you're choice of a SC would beg the question: what kind of power are you looking for? do you want stock-like power down low and a big top-end surge, or do you want a all-around boost in HP.



The Vortech that you've been talking about is a centrifugal unit, which is VERY different from the Eaton Roots-type (twin-screw) that the 2004 Cobra uses. In fact, I can't think of any car that comes with a centrifugal blower from the factory.



A centrifugal blower is like a turbo, only belt driven. It spins fast, and requires a lot of install work. Most Eaton blowers (which are the ones you see on REAL muscle cars sticking through the hood) just bolt down onto the intake manifold and don't require additional piping.



Bottom line, before undertaking something like this, do LOTS of research.
 
great info and advice BrianJ, but....



BrianJ said:
Well, I'm not sure if the ModMotor found in the 3 latest generations of Mustang would qualify as a true muscle car.
Click to expand...



the mustang isn't a true muscle car, it's a pony car. :D well, maybe in today's market, it might the car with the most muscle car like characterisitics. :p



and the mod motors, well, it depends on which one you are talking about. the SOHC ones pre-1999 were pretty much dogs producing about 215-hp. the post-1999 SOHC were better and produced 260-hp. then there was the 2001 bullit SOHC which produced like 265 or 270-hp. not much more, but it had nice mid-range power.

pretty much all of the DOHC ones are good, ranging from a 285-hp one in the old Lincoln Mark VIII, to the butt-whooping s/c '03/'04 ones in the cobras, with a few 300-hp ones in between powering cars like the 1999 & 2001 cobras, 2003-04 mach1s, and 2003 marauder.



sorry, but that's just a little bit of nit-picking from this stanghead. :p but like you said: "Bottom line, before undertaking something like this, do LOTS of research." very good advice. :xyxthumbs
 
You got some extremely helpful info so far, so I apologize if this sounds redundent. I have owned three Vortech supercharged vehicles so far, and am currently helping my brother decide as to which supercharger he is going to get for his 98 Cobra, and a friend who has an 04' supercharged Cobra that wants to upgrade his since the stock supercharger is *extremely* limited. I used to work for a company (during college) that did nothing but aftermarket upgrades for late model mustangs. I've seen and done it all....nitrous, turbo, supercharger, big engine mods, and even combinations of the above. Right now, the biggest craze is the combination of a supercharger and nitrous. This may sound a little extreme but it's not. It's actually safer than running a supercharger alone without an aftercooler.



To answer your question, the amount of modification/s that will need to be done will all depend on how much power you want. Vortech sells kits for stock cars that are bolt on kits and only take a professional one full work day (maybe less) to install. The kits that are being sold today come with everything you need to run the supercharger safely like fuel injectors, reprogrammed computer, external fuel pump, etc. If you find a kit that doesn't require at *least* a fuel pump and injectors (or FMU if no injectors) I would be extremely leary of it. Added boost/power without the fuel = blown engine.



When I installed a Vortech S-trim kit on my 99' Expedition it only took us 6 hours and that's counting a 1 hour brake for lunch. One of the easiest installs ever, but that's because we did it in a professional shop with a lift and the Expedition has tons of room to work with. Mustangs are a lot tighter and can be a little more tedious.



An option to a supercharger would be motor work. If you don't want a power adder, you can send the heads and intake off to be ported or buy new aftermarket ones to add "all the time" power. Keep in mind, when you add power no matter what the source is, you still need to do the same base modifications like fuel injectors, fuel pump, computer tune, etc.



Here's a couple pics of my Expedition and my Mustang (the one I still have).



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5571img_0261edited2.jpg




aba80c78.jpg




DSC00380.jpg
 
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