Question on wet sanding vs re-paint

T

tattoowdr

New member
When I got my Prelude about a year ago, I knew nothing about how to properly care for the car's paint. I cringe when I remember some of the things I used to do. One of the worst things was using the lovely, black-bristled coarse brush at a coin wash on my beautiful black car. I ended up scratching the whole thing all over! I tried to remove the scrathes using some Meguiars products (ScratchX and their "deep crystal" polish, paint cleaner and wax), but nothing has worked so far. Let me describe the scratches:



They are fairly light, I can't feel them with my fingernail with the exception of very few which you can feel a tiny, tiny bit.



They appear white in some lights, but when you look at them in the sun they just look like...I don't know...scratches I guess.



I have been considering the following products. 3M Finesse-It II, 3M perfect-it rubbing compound, 3M perfect-it swirl remover for dark colored cars and Pinnacle paint cleansing lotion. Do I need to go as abrasive as the rubbing compound, or would the Finesse-It do the trick? I understand that you need to go from fine, to finer, to finest. So, would this be the correct order?:



1) Finesse-It

2) SMR

3) PPCL



What about if I went with the rubbing compound?



1) Rubbing compound

2) Finesse-It

3) Would I use SMR or PPCL here?

4) or both for a total of 4 steps?



Sorry, this is so long, I just really believe that these horrible things can be fixed! I just need some help! Thanks so much, Scamp
 
Hi Scamp,



I think the correct order would be to start with the finest one. Always use the least abrasive first. If it doesn't work try the next abrasive stuff.



That is at least what I've learned here. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.



Deckard
 
If you aren't familiarized with your products and scratch removal than you should start in a small area with the finest stuff and work to more agressive until the swirls are removed. If you find that the swirls are removeed with the SMR than using compound on your whole car would be overkill and remove more paint than necesary. Once you find the magic product, use it over the whole car. If the finish looks good then proceed to wax/seal. If there is hazing, use a finer abrasive, usually you only need a vary fine abrasive to rewmove this haze (Blackfire Polish removed the FI-2 haze I experienced).
 
Young Brad is right on. Try to use the least aggressive product first. For scratches, I really don't think the Pinnacle PCL will help much. You'll probably have to use something more aggressive such as SMR or if you have to some FI 2. At any rate some very experienced detailers here use Finesse It 2 on their brand new cars with no problems or fear of potential problems. Laters
 
Let's be REAL clear here - "use the least aggressive product first" does NOT mean the proper order of application in a multi-step process is from least to most aggressive.



It does mean "use nothing more aggressive than what is required to get the job done."



SO if (from least aggressive to most)



Wax is 0

Glaze/Polish is 1

Swirl Mark remover is 2

Finesse-IT II finishing material is 3

rubbing compound is 4



THEN - you should try



1,0 - if that doesn't work, you should try 2,1,0. If that doesn't work try 3,2,1,0 (at this point you might find you can skip 1). If THAT doesn't work, then try 4, but you WILL need to follow it with milder products to de-haze.
 
I used the 3M swirl with #3 Machining polish (Griots) combined on the same Porter cable foam pad with some outstanding results! Followed by 2 coats of wax.
 
I'm not sure who would use a less aggressive product first, get the desired results and THEN use a more aggressive or abrasive product. That person would be quite foolish. When we say use the least aggressive product first that's what we mean. It means start with the least aggressive product first. If you get the results you want then you stop there. If not then you go to something a bit more aggressive. Laters
 
First, sorry if I posted this in the wrong section.

Now the question. My wife's VW Rabbit has a couple of scratches that are be yond clear coat surface damage as far as I can tell. When cleaned and I rub my finger over it it is noticable. When I run my nail along it, it clearly catches.

I was going to attempt to wetsand it even with the rest, however I'm sure if that is the proper procedure. I'm worried that the scratch is so deep that the panel will need a repaint regardless. Alternately, I could attempt to at least smooth the scratch out with either:

a.) wet sanding + M105
b.) just M105 (maybe a couple full passes)

Any suggestions on this one? Or any other methods to test paint thickness in the area. I've looked at paint meters and they are very expensive, unless I'm looking at the wrong units.

Nick
 
You could try wetsanding, then compounding as you suggested, but this will run more risk if you are attempting to smooth a scratch that is too deep.

My suggestion would be use option "b", and just do a couple passes of compounding. If the scratch is still there, you can still wetsand. If they are smaller length scratches in less conspicuous areas, I wouldn't worry too much about them.
 
If you can catch the nail with your finger then you will (in all likelyhood) not be able to fully remove it with out thinning the paint to dangerous levels. The reduction in appearance is going to depend on what type of channel the scratch is. If it is a V shaped channel then the scratch will become less visible as the top surface is reduced. If it is a U shaped channel scratch then you are going to remove a lot of paint with little improvement in appearance.

My advice would be to polish the second a couple of times using heavy pressure and M105 on a DA (to round out the surface) then call it a day as far as heavy correction. If you are planning on a respray of the area then you can go as aggressive as you want, but I would play it safe. Paint is easy to remove and expensive to add!
 
I would wetsand it and fully remvove it. Just my opionion, but I think people are way to concerned about the paint removal process. Yes I know newer clearcoats are thinner these days, and I know about future damage and all that good stuff. The fact of the matter here is this scratch bugs you and your wife. This is obviously a daily driven vehicle. The average consumer keeps a car 2-3 years before there bored with it. Unless you burn threw the paint you won't see damage in that time frame. If your considering a repaint, why not stab at it. I would be worried about removing to much paint if you bought this car as an investment or its a car you plan to own for a lifetime. If this is a daily driver. I see no point in not going full tort and just get rid of it. YOu would be surprised what 1500 grit paper can remove. Best of luck on your adventure. By the way this is just my .02$
Barry
 
bufferbarry said:
I would wetsand it and fully remvove it. Just my opionion, but I think people are way to concerned about the paint removal process. Yes I know newer clearcoats are thinner these days, and I know about future damage and all that good stuff. The fact of the matter here is this scratch bugs you and your wife. This is obviously a daily driven vehicle. The average consumer keeps a car 2-3 years before there bored with it. Unless you burn threw the paint you won't see damage in that time frame. If your considering a repaint, why not stab at it. I would be worried about removing to much paint if you bought this car as an investment or its a car you plan to own for a lifetime. If this is a daily driver. I see no point in not going full tort and just get rid of it. YOu would be surprised what 1500 grit paper can remove. Best of luck on your adventure. By the way this is just my .02$
Barry
Click to expand...

I disagree with everything that has been said here ^ :)

Kind Regards,

3 Cents :wizard:
 
Flash Gordon said:
I disagree with everything that has been said here ^ :)
Click to expand...

Barry's on a different level than most detailers. :biggrin: He's constantly pushing the boundries of his craft defying all limits of rational thinking. He considers himself as the anointed one and is truely a legend in his own mind. :devil:
 
David Fermani said:
Barry's on a different level than most detailers. :biggrin: He's constantly pushing the boundries of his craft defying all limits of rational thinking. He considers himself as the anointed one and is truely a legend in his own mind. :devil:
Click to expand...

Even when he is wrong... :rofl:
 
Flash Gordon said:
I disagree with everything that has been said here ^ :)

Kind Regards,

3 Cents :wizard:
Click to expand...

Thats great that you do. We are all titled to our own thoughts. I simply answered what I would do. How is that wrong. I don't think he is looking to save all the paint. He was contemplating a repaint. Can the paint look better with a light polish. Yes. My thoughts are if your gonna repaint, why not grow a sac? In other words have the balls, you know gonads, kahuna's and whatever else they call them these days and just remove it? Be done with it? Is the OP actaully gonna keep a daily driver for 5 plus years? Maybe but most likly not? My thoughts are removing it and being done.

Now David, I wouldn't say I'm a legend maybe someday yes. Legends are more defined as someone who is finsihed in the field. I'm more of an elitist setting standards with every detail I do! You know the game changer. The F'ing Adonis of Automotive Detailing. :cornut:

Todd writes :
If you can catch the nail with your finger then you will (in all likelyhood) not be able to fully remove it with out thinning the paint to dangerous levels. The reduction in appearance is going to depend on what type of channel the scratch is. If it is a V shaped channel then the scratch will become less visible as the top surface is reduced. If it is a U shaped channel scratch then you are going to remove a lot of paint with little improvement in appearance.

My advice would be to polish the second a couple of times using heavy pressure and M105 on a DA (to round out the surface) then call it a day as far as heavy correction. If you are planning on a respray of the area then you can go as aggressive as you want, but I would play it safe. Paint is easy to remove and expensive to add!

Todd says he would play it safe, but if you are gonna repaint go aggresive. I was thinking along the same llines with my post.

Mr Helme how am I wrong, because I said go for it. If we are talking about removing paint and the safest possible way. I see you mentioned about using M105 and a D/A. Im assuming you mean like a porter cable, G110 and such machines. To me these machines actually remove more paint then a rotory. I think you would agree with this statement. See Thread:

http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-de...-removes-more-paint-answer-may-shock-you.html

so is m105 and a pc the safest method? If I were to play it safe in this situation why not clean scratched area, dry it properly, touch it up then lightly sand it even with like 3000 grit then using a lighter compound it will come right out. This way there isn't much clear removed. anyway's just my .04 cents worth :biggrin:

Have a great day gentleman.
 
bufferbarry said:
Thats great that you do. We are all titled to our own thoughts. I simply answered what I would do. How is that wrong. I don't think he is looking to save all the paint. He was contemplating a repaint. Can the paint look better with a light polish. Yes. My thoughts are if your gonna repaint, why not grow a sac? In other words have the balls, you know gonads, kahuna's and whatever else they call them these days and just remove it? Be done with it? Is the OP actaully gonna keep a daily driver for 5 plus years? Maybe but most likly not? My thoughts are removing it and being done.

Have a great day flash.
Click to expand...

bufferbarry,first off take a > :chillpill:

2nd thing, I'm sorry you disagree with me. and yes your right. We are all entitled to are on opinions (no matter how wrong you are) I just felt offering this advice was not only a waste of time for the OP, but will also do more harm then any possibility of good. By offering this advice to the OP of growing nads and getting aggresive, thats just plan stupid. Have you ever done any body/paint work? Obviously you haven't as advising someone with no sanding expierence to try this will more then likely leave dreadfull looking sanding marks that the average body shop will not take the time to correct. And besides all that, your never going to sand out a scrtatch that is to the metal, I don't care how good you think you are Da Rules!

I don't know you from adam, never heard of you before this thread. So please don't take this as an orchestrated attack on you. It may make you feel alittle better to know that Todd and David don't like me either :yawn:

Oh, and as for only keeping a DD for 5 years....thats rookie talk.I have had mine for 17 years and still going strong :Car smiley:


Hope to see you around

Regards,

Flash :wink:
 
Flash Gordon said:
bufferbarry,first off take a > :chillpill:

2nd thing, I'm sorry you disagree with me. and yes your right. We are all entitled to are on opinions (no matter how wrong you are) I just felt offering this advice was not only a waste of time for the OP, but will also do more harm then any possibility of good. By offering this advice to the OP of growing nads and getting aggresive, thats just plan stupid. Have you ever done any body/paint work? Obviously you haven't as advising someone with no sanding expierence to try this will more then likely leave dreadfull looking sanding marks that the average body shop will not take the time to correct. And besides all that, your never going to sand out a scrtatch that is to the metal, I don't care how good you think you are Da Rules!

I don't know you from adam, never heard of you before this thread. So please don't take this as an orchestrated attack on you. It may make you feel alittle better to know that Todd and David don't like me either :yawn:

Oh, and as for only keeping a DD for 5 years....thats rookie talk.I have had mine for 17 years and still going strong :Car smiley:


Hope to see you around

Regards,

Flash :wink:
Click to expand...

I don't remember seeing the OP saying that the scratch was down to metal? And for what its worth I really don't have much experiance, Im just a lurker really. I read alot and thats it. My comments about growing nads were jokes. If I offended you I am sorry. No harm was meant. My comments about me being the Adonis and stuff like that were jokes to David. Not you. In all honesty, Im just an enthusiest enjoying detailing. I meant no harm to what I said.
 
bufferbarry said:
Todd writes :
If you can catch the nail with your finger then you will (in all likelyhood) not be able to fully remove it with out thinning the paint to dangerous levels. The reduction in appearance is going to depend on what type of channel the scratch is. If it is a V shaped channel then the scratch will become less visible as the top surface is reduced. If it is a U shaped channel scratch then you are going to remove a lot of paint with little improvement in appearance.

My advice would be to polish the second a couple of times using heavy pressure and M105 on a DA (to round out the surface) then call it a day as far as heavy correction. If you are planning on a respray of the area then you can go as aggressive as you want, but I would play it safe. Paint is easy to remove and expensive to add!

Todd says he would play it safe, but if you are gonna repaint go aggresive. I was thinking along the same llines with my post.

Mr Helme how am I wrong, because I said go for it. If we are talking about removing paint and the safest possible way. I see you mentioned about using M105 and a D/A. Im assuming you mean like a porter cable, G110 and such machines. To me these machines actually remove more paint then a rotory. I think you would agree with this statement. See Thread:

http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-de...-removes-more-paint-answer-may-shock-you.html

so is m105 and a pc the safest method? If I were to play it safe in this situation why not clean scratched area, dry it properly, touch it up then lightly sand it even with like 3000 grit then using a lighter compound it will come right out. This way there isn't much clear removed. anyway's just my .04 cents worth :biggrin:

Have a great day gentleman.
Click to expand...

Don't you go around calling me Mr. Helme...

I wouldn't consider painting anything short of a show car for one scratch, I would polish it, play it safe, and live it with.
 
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