Question from Dewalt Product Manager

[DEWALTprdctmgr]

I would like to introduce myself. My name is Eric, and I work for Dewalt Power Tools in Towson, MD as a Product Manager with responsibilities over the Polisher/Buffer categories. Over the past few weeks I have reviewed many of your comments in these forums about the Dewalt DW849 vs. the Makita 9227. We do a large amount of user research across the country on all of our products, and the comments that you have posted here about the DW849 and the 9227 are confirmation from what we have heard from many users during research. I really enjoy looking at these forums and getting critical feedback on our products from people like yourselves. The only way for us to deliver better product, and product that you will want to use each and every day, is to listen to your comments...Positive and Negative.



I would like to try and be a valuable resource on this forum to answer some of your questions and concerns on our DW849, hoping in return that you can provide me with some answer to questions we may have about making a better unit. Who knows, but we may even cross paths in some of our user research or local visits in the Maryland area.



Although there were many good points brought up in the threads and discussions about weight, power, speed, balance, backing pads, etc., there were two areas of interest to me in our research that I was hoping you could help elaborate on, discuss your preferences, and hopefully answer why you feel that way. These two areas that I am looking to explore are:



1) Do you prefer a side handle like the one that is shipped with the DW849, or would you rather use a bale handle like the one on the Makita 9227c? Is there a reason that you prefer one over another besides being it is what you have always used and you are accustomed to it?



2) Soft-Start Control vs. Immediate Start. The Makita 9227 has a feature that we like to refer to as Soft-Start, which slowly brings the pad up to the set speed when depressing the trigger all the way (it normally takes about 2 seconds to get up to full speed). The DW849 instantly goes to the set speed when you depress the trigger fully with no slow/soft-start. Do you prefer one style over the other and why? If you prefer one over the other, would it prevent you from buying a brand of polisher if it didn't have your desired prefernce in starting capabilities?



Any feedback that you can give me on these two topics would really help confirm some of the user research that we have done in the field. I am more then happy to try and address any other questions, concerns, or ideas that you may have on this category of power tool. I want to apologize up front if there is a delay in responding to some messages in a timely manner, but I will do my best to log in at least once a week. Thanks in advance for your help, and I look forward to hearing your responses.



Regards,



Eric

Product Marketing Manager

Dewalt Power Tools

Towson, MD

 

[sparklescarwash]

Please please make a version of the flex 3401 dual action I think it would be a huge seller for dewalt.

 

[j27]

I like the soft start it helps me to keep splatter under control and I prefer the bale handle because it is more comfortable at odd angles.

 

[lasthope05]

I've had my dw849 for a little over 3 years now and love it. The craftsman ship and build are top notch. I havent done anything to it besides change the brushes and re-grease the head. To answer your questions,...



1) I personally prefer the side handle as apposed to the bale handle. I learned on a dewalt so naturally when I picked up a makita it felt very awkward. I do know that quite a few people like the makitas bale handle because it enables them to put direct pressure directly on top of the head.



2) This is the one feature I liked about the makita along with the lower starting rpm speeds. The soft start feature gives me a feeling of better control and doesnt jerk and pull your arms as a dewalt does. When I first learned years ago the instant starting would "walk/pull" the buffer as I layed it on the paint. If dewalt could incorporate this into the current model it would make the dw849 more favorable to new potential customers looking into rotary polishers.

 

[YeboGoGo]

I like the soft start it helps me to keep splatter under control and I prefer the bale handle because it is more comfortable at odd angles.

Couldnt have said it better.



Only other thing I would add is the main handle needs a 5 degree backtilt on it. My wrist cramps after a while of being used. This small angle would make the difference!!

 

[Barry Theal]

In my career as a detail. I probaly have burned up 10-12 dewalts in my time and a few of the exact black and decker models. . I used to do a lot of high volume work here in Manheim PA. A hour or so from you. Up until recently I just switched to the makita. I still feel the Dewalt is the workhorse in the industry and probaly the best made. I went with a makita for one simple reason, The soft start. I do like the side handle. May I suggest dewalt looks into developing a nice solid varible speed D/A SOmething simaler to the Festool. This industry is changing. Thank you for asking about your product. As I feel Dewalt is a great tool.

 

[Kevin Brown]

1) Do you prefer a side handle like the one that is shipped with the DW849, or would you rather use a bale handle like the one on the Makita 9227c? Is there a reason that you prefer one over another besides being it is what you have always used and you are accustomed to it?



2) Soft-Start Control vs. Immediate Start. The Makita 9227 has a feature that we like to refer to as Soft-Start, which slowly brings the pad up to the set speed when depressing the trigger all the way (it normally takes about 2 seconds to get up to full speed). The DW849 instantly goes to the set speed when you depress the trigger fully with no slow/soft-start. Do you prefer one style over the other and why? If you prefer one over the other, would it prevent you from buying a brand of polisher if it didn't have your desired preference in starting capabilities?

1. I use a side handle and would NEVER likely use a bail handle.

In fact, I use the Meguiar's G500 adjustable handle. I think a lot of guys appreciate the hand pad mounted atop the Flex XC 3401 VRG, or something similar to what Metabo employs on the PE-1275 (but make it so it doesn't extend too far past the head of the machine like the Metabo piece because its length makes it hard to get under mirrors and whatnot).



I might be able to live with one of those as an option.



2. I CAN'T STAND A SOFT-START ON A ROTARY!!!

A soft start, when implemented on a random orbital, is no big deal (your DW443 has soft-start). I also understand that a soft start can extend the life of electrical components. The thing is, I have been using the DeWalt DW849 for years without problems. Prior to that, I was a Black & Decker 6138 Buffmaster fan. For those that don't know, the 6138 became a DW849 once Black & Decker and DeWalt merged.



For me, soft-start is a real pain when there is a need to do a little throttling of the trigger, or if I wish to adjust machine speed using only the finger trigger. Soft-start triggers create a lag time that can really hinder concise speed control. If you decide to add an "overload protection circuit", I will be sorely disappointed. I had a Hitachi machine that was simply horrible to use because the soft-start/thermal overload combo was a bit too "willing" to "protect" me! A typical day behind the Hitachi went like this:



"Pull trigger... soft start... (yawwn)... okay, up to speed now. Let's get to work!

The big wool pad is starting to cut... getting some drag... oh no, the overload kicked in... ARRRGHHH!"



Honestly, it was the best thing I ever had stolen from me because I had to head to the local PBE store and get.... a Black & Decker Buffmaster 6138! WHAT A DIFFERENCE. It made rotary polishing a joy. That being said, if you are on a path to improve your rotary machine, I would REALLY appreciate a quieter model. An overall smaller machine wouldn't be bad, either. I'll say this: if the Metabo PE-1275 had a finger trigger, it would be a HOT seller because it has everything else- 700-2200 RPM, light weight, and quiet running. If you focused on bringing to market a smaller and lighter machine that was quiet, I would buy one in a heartbeat.



I would hate to see the DW849 abandoned right away because I think there is always going to be a market for it.

I know I personally will always keep a machine like the DW849 in my buffer bag.



These days, I buff automotive paint using WAY lower speeds than I used to, and do so utilizing smaller diameter (5-1/2"-7") pads. Consequently, if I have to forego a bit of top end RPM to get an advanced machine that only spins a lower RPM, no biggie. The only time I would perhaps miss the top-end speed on a smaller machine would be when using very small-diameter pads (3"-4") because the linear speed would suffer.



I suppose I've just described the DW847 as the machine to build, but the price to the end user is almost that of the DW849.



Anyway, that is all. Thanks for asking our opinions... I LOVE my DeWalt machines!!!! :bigups

 

[Barry Theal]

I thought I was the only one that like the black and decker! LOL great minds think a like. I still have one and it still fires right up.

 

[JonP]

I have been using my 849 since I first bought it in 99 and still running strong. I like it the way it is except I would love to have a cordless version of it. Just about all of my power tools are all by DeWalt.

 

[imported_WhyteWizard]

Nice to see a product manager drop by.



The reason I stopped using the Dewalts was primarily noise. You may have addressed that since then but a few years ago, the 80s, not a good time for most things made in America - remember the Ford Thunderbirds? - they howled under load.



I like a soft start, the Makita's is a bit slow, but that machine will keep spinning long enough after the power is off that I can get more polish onto the surface and be back in contact before it stops so it's not a deal breaker. Still, the faster, but still soft start of the Hitachi works better for me. I have to change the grease in the heads even on these to make them quieter, but with synthetic grease the run both quieter and much cooler.



As far as handles go, I like the loop handle better. I find the different places to grip gives me more flexibility as I move around the car. Also, I find the machine moves more easily because of the way my left hand holds the machine. Still, that loop's shape isn't exactly right. I would have made the vertical part tilt more toward the center, as seen from the back of the tool with the pad flat and away.



If you're going to make a dual action, I'd suggest something like the Makita BO 6040 but without the mode switch. I don't know what the ability to switch costs, but since I almost never go random orbital and am usually disappointed when I do, loss of that option wouldn't be a problem for me. Also, most people who'd buy that machine all ready have random orbitals.







Robert

 

[DLB_1]

1. Loop handle



2. Immediate start







DLB

 

[De WALTER]

Loop Handle would be a plus. Overall the Dewalt is the best, I've had mine for years.

 

[Mike_Phillips]

My input...



I usually don't use a handle at all on a rotary buffer but when I do I prefer the Stick Handle.

• Quick and easy to move from side to side
  
• Quick and easy to remove when it's in the way or you don't want it on the tool

A comfort grip feature on the head of the unit would be a cool feature I could appreciate.



I like the Soft Start feature, if you come from a background of using rotary buffers without it then it can take a little time to get used to but I do like it personally. Kevin makes a good point, how about a switch that lets you switch between the two styles?





One more feature I could appreciate is a low rev speed of 600 RPM like the Makita 9227C, this is to me a very unique feature Makita offers over all the competition and comes in handy for finish polishing.





Also, a smaller, head unit like my trusty, dusty Makita. This is my original Makita Rotary Buffer I purchased in 1988 and until just recently gave up the Ghost, I'm hoping to find a way to rebuild it and retain the original sand-cast aluminum head housing as after decades of doing what I call "Completes", that is doing a complete buff-out from the compounding step all the way through to the finishing step, I slowly wore the sides smooth like chrome. Most nights when I would finish I would find two places on my right hand that had been cut open and bleeding from holding the buffer for so many hours.



Makita 9207 SCP

All modern rotary buffers offer a smooth surface to start with so I kind of like the idea of keeping the original rotary buffer I used to feed myself for so many years...



Also, a rubbery block on the top of the head unit instead of metal tabs... this is because once in a while I like to set my buffer down on a surface and the rubber is much safer than metal as far as scratching or gouging. The Dewalt I have has a block but it's not soft rubber, it's kind of a hard plastic. The Makita has just aluminum tabs.



Hang on and I'll take a picture to show the difference in head size and the rubber block.

 

[MichaelM]

I'm a big fan of the side handle but would appreciate something to hold on the head of the machine. Not a bail handle but a shape like the Metabo that Mr. Brown describes.



I don't mind the soft start of the Makita, actually I prefer it over the instant on of the Dewalt though the Makita could come on a bit faster. A lot of the time I leave the machine on with the trigger lock as I move from panel to panel, especially for more serious removal. I do all my finish polishing with a Makita BO6040 and use a PC for the tight spots.



The main reason I don't use the Dewalt is the noise, the sucker screams. That and the Makita feels better in my hands.

 

[Accumulator]

DEWALTprdctmgr- Nice to see you soliciting our opinions.

...I usually don't use a handle at all on a rotary buffer but when I do I prefer the Stick Handle...A comfort grip feature on the head of the unit would be a cool feature I could appreciate.







I like the Soft Start feature....

Same here, on both counts.

 

[Mike_Phillips]

Here's some pictures to show the size comparison of the head units and the soft blocks....

 

[Mike_Phillips]

This is where some type of rubbery form-molded grip wold be really appreciated, right on the head of the unit. You could still design it in a way that a person could attach a handle.

This little Griot's Garage 3" Mini Polisher offers a type of rubbery grip on the head of this unit.

This is the forward handle on a Flex 3401, the problem is though that it gets in the way when buffing in tight areas...

Really cool you're asking from input from the members of the forums...





:2thumbs:

 

[Accumulator]

This is the forward handle on a Flex 3401, the problem is though that it gets in the way when buffing in tight areas...

And the housing gets kinda hot if you take the plastic off.

 

[JohnKleven]

I HATE the soft start on the Makita. For professional use I feel the Dewalt is a much superior machine, but I wish the motor was as quite as the Makita. I also wish the trigger was a little more sensitive.





John

 

[MarcHarris]

1. I like the bail handle - it allows me to have a firm hold near the center of the machine rather than off to the side. As already mentioned, a handle like the flex / metabo might be another nice solution.



2. I like the slow start.



I realize we'll all have different opinions and preferences, but I appreciate you coming here to ask some folks with actual field experience how they feel and why. G/L in your research and please let us know what affect this ends up having down the road