Question for PC users that switched to Rotary?

Here's the problem - everybody starts off with a lot of respect and maybe a little fear of the rotary. Then, you discover that hey, this ain't so hard, I'm buffing and the paint ain't flying off the car. After a few times you think you know all there is and maybe all the safety and respect talk was overdone, then it happens. Been there-done that, same thing with a chainsaw too - fortunitely my Levi's took the worst of it and I just got a scratch - damn right scary though! Anybody that does get a rotary, get a scrap hood or fender - most junk yards or bodyshops would be more than happy to let you practice on a piece of scrap. When you do, try to burn through the clear and then you'll have a good idea of what can happen, just remember - plastic is better left alone.
 
JuneBug said:
Here's the problem - everybody starts off with a lot of respect and maybe a little fear of the rotary. Then, you discover that hey, this ain't so hard, I'm .. you think you know all there is and maybe all the safety and respect talk was overdone...
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Yeah, guess that's where my broken-record caveat about "proper mindset" comes in. Whether we're talking rotaries, chainsaws, or [any other serious tool], some people really oughta say "no thanks". Maybe *most* people, at least when it comes to certain tools, but at least with the rotary we're just talking about cosmetic damage to cars.



Glad to hear your chainsaw mishap wasn't tragic! I've yet to nick my protective gear, but I still put it on every time even after decades of using the thing. Lots of pros have an oops with those no matter how experienced and careful they are, and there's a lesson in that.



I'm of two minds regarding the rotary on plastic: couldn't realistically do the correction I (sometimes) need without it, but all too aware that it's a risky proposition. You give it some thought and you take your chances :nixweiss
 
Of course I have to add my controversial take on the "new guy on a rotary thing."...



Use wool.



I could do a four page rant on how I love wool, but I'll keep it simple, and with a new guy slant:



Wool is *very* easy to use. It does not get nearly as hot as foam, it doesn't skip as easily, is less sensitive to the amount of product you use, is easily cleaned with a spur and a brush as you go if you do over-do the product application, and is *much safer* for a new guy; the reduced heat gives you a better margin for error on plastic areas, as well as inadvertantly touching adjacent parts with the pad. It aslo cuts quicker. (Yeah, I think that's a safety advantage. Kinda like using a sharp knife). It's also available for every job you'd want to do: compounding, intermediate correction, final polish and even LSP application. It's also easier to use in hard-to-get-to places.



Lot's of people still say that you'll never finish down as well with wool, and that you'll end up with far more holograms, but I've converted a few peeps to "the dark side", and I'm still working on more. :) I'm only a part time guy. I do it cause I love to detail, not for money. I've only corrected a total of about 20 cars this year, but 15 of them have been with wool, and I've achieved the same results finishing with wool as I did with foam.



As Coupe's signature says, "Wool Rules. Foam Drools."
 
Edge 2000 wool color guide:



Black - Heavy compounding

Yellow - Medium correction

Green - Light correction

Blue - Very light correction/final polish

White - Has no cut to it. You can use this pad to really put a high shine on a car with a high quality finishing polish like PO106FF. This combination is *wonderful*, but it *will not* produce any correction at all. It's strictly to make the car shine, and OMG, it does a great job of it.



My favorite medium correction pad (my workhorse), is LC's purple foamed wool.



My current sytem (unless the car is heavily swirled and has serious defects), is:



Purple foamed wool with Menz SIP, then either green or blue wool (green for hard clear coats, blue for softer clears) with 106FF, then White wool with 106FF.



I can often skip the last step on softer clears, but most of the time I do it anyway.



I'd substitute Menzerna Intensive Polish instead of SIP for a guy new to the rotary. Using the system above (with regular IP instead of SIP) is a very safe and easy process for someone new to the rotary. You're not using very aggressive pads or polish (and not removing alot of clear coat), yet you'll still get very good correction ability, and the shine you'll end up with will knock your socks off.



Some basic safety rules:



Don't go over 1,000 rpm until you're very comfortable using the rotary.



Keep the buffer head moving over the paint the entire time that the head is turning.



Don't push hard.



Don't overwork (dry buff) the product



If you keep those simple rules in mind and try out the polishes/pads recommended above, I think you'll have a good first experience, and it should be safe, as well.
 
Accumulator said:
SuperBee364- Thanks for that nice concise summary of E2K's wool pads.



Any hologram issues we need to watch for?
Click to expand...



The main reason I love the purple foamed wool for medium correction is that it doesn't hologram the paint nearly as badly as the yellow edge 2000 wool does. It also finishes down much finer than the yellow edge. The holograms the purple foamed wool does leave aren't really "deep"; they are easily knocked out with green or blue wool and 106ff. On really hard paints, purple foamed with SIP will finish down LSP ready: no holograms, no compounding marks, nothing but shine.



I do get major holograms and compound swirling with the yellow edge wool, regardless of the aggressiveness of the polish being used. Not so with the green, and the blue just finishes down so well, you'd swear it was foam. The green and/or blue with 106ff blasts holograms and compounding marks incredibly well, leaving an LSP ready finish. For that extra 5% look, a final pass with 106ff and white wool is definitely concours de elegance.



Wool has knocked hours off of my polishing jobs. It cuts and breaks down polishes so much faster than foam it's truly amazing. Plus, its ease of use means I can normaly still use my arms after a full day behind the buffer. I can three-step a car (meaning i have time to go for that final 5%) with wool in the amount of time it takes me to two-step a car with foam.



Even though, IMHO, wool has no equivalent counter part in foam (it's just so superior), if I had to say "X wool is equivalent to X foam", I'd say:



Yellow Edge Wool = Yellow LC foam. Although the wool will leave compound marks and swirls that are much worse than the foam. But it also cuts *really* fast. You'll cut your compounding time in half using the wool.



Green Edge Wool = Orange LC foam. Not only will the wool cut quicker and get out medium/light defects faster, it will finish down as nice as, or better than, the foam. Green Edge Wool with SIP has more correction power than SIP with Orange foam.



Blue Edge Wool = Green LC Foam. Again, the wool will cut and finish faster than the foam. On very hard clear coats, the wool will knock your socks off. It'll get out holograms and compounding marks *much* better than foam will on hard clears.



White Edge Wool = Black LC Foam. No cut. Allows the polish to show off what it can do without any help from the pad. I know I'm always gushing about 106ff all the time, but a pass of it with the white wool will give you Rydawg and/or Picus-class results. Actually, I think this might be their secret formula. ;)



Purple foamed wool is just in a class by itself. There is no foam equivalent. It's cutting power is above yellow foam, and not quite up to yellow wool. It's ability to correct medium and medium+ defects is unsurpassed by anything I've ever used. It cuts quick, and finishes down very well. How well depends on the softness of the clear it's used on, though. Softer clears will be left with some compounding marks and holograms, hard clears will be just beautiful. This pad is very sensitive to the quality of the polish it's used with. Use it with a lower quality polish, and you'll get lower quality results. Used with SIP or IP and it's a-mazing. Use it after really heavy compounding (think black wool with PG) with SIP or IP, and you may be able to skip a final polishing step.



Enough of my rambling... I'm working on a car today and gotta get back to it.
 
SuperBee364- Thanks for the additional info. That's the best quick-take I can recall seeing and is much appreciated.



Interesting that you haven't found hologramming to be an issue with the milder wool pads.



Instead of :think: about the Vintage, I oughta spend a little $ on the wool and quit wasting time with the foam pads. I just keep thinking "gee, I hardly ever do correction and I have all these foam pads"..but then I still have to finish the M3 and if I get another dog-truck it'll be a huge job. Might oughta give the wool a shot after all.



Wool work OK with any High-Temp levelers in your experience?





Hm...I'm sorta nudging this thread off-topic :o
 
I did have problems with holograms and a blue wool pad one time. I was doing the neighbor's 2003 black Honda Accord. I had used IP and a blue pad for correcting the soft Honda paint. It corrected the paint very well, but a sun inspection revealed huge amounts of holograms. I did one more pass with 106ff and the white wool, and it turned out beautiful. Soft paint really does seem susceptible to wool induced holograms. However, they are very easy to get out with white wool and a good finishing polish. Using a high quality finishing polish with green or blue wool removes holograms and leaves an amazing finish on harder clears.



I use HTEC quite often with the Edge pads, but for some reason I can't get it to work well with the purple foamed wool. Yellow edge wool and HTEC is a very powerful combination. Expect lots of compounding haze, swirls, and holograms with that combo, but it corrects *very* fast. I don't like the .357 magnum (or heavy cut... whatever their name for it is this week) with wool at all. SIP gives just as much cut as .357 does, and it does it faster and finishes down much better. .357 gives me huge hologram problems.



Yes, holograms are definitely a possibility with wool, there's no doubt. But using the correct polish/pad combination can completely get rid of the problem from the start. And if you do get holo problems, selecting the right wool with 106ff will knock em out *fast*.



The Menzerna line really seems to play nicely with wool. They all cut fast and finish down nicely with minimal or easily removed holos.
 
SuperBee364 said:
My favorite medium correction pad (my workhorse), is LC's purple foamed wool.



My current sytem (unless the car is heavily swirled and has serious defects), is:



Purple foamed wool with Menz SIP, then either green or blue wool (green for hard clear coats, blue for softer clears) with 106FF, then White wool with 106FF.



I can often skip the last step on softer clears, but most of the time I do it anyway.



I'd substitute Menzerna Intensive Polish instead of SIP for a guy new to the rotary. Using the system above (with regular IP instead of SIP) is a very safe and easy process for someone new to the rotary. You're not using very aggressive pads or polish (and not removing alot of clear coat), yet you'll still get very good correction ability, and the shine you'll end up with will knock your socks off.



Some basic safety rules:



Don't go over 1,000 rpm until you're very comfortable using the rotary.



Keep the buffer head moving over the paint the entire time that the head is turning.



Don't push hard.



Don't overwork (dry buff) the product



If you keep those simple rules in mind and try out the polishes/pads recommended above, I think you'll have a good first experience, and it should be safe, as well.
Click to expand...



SuperBee, is this still your preferred system, or would you make any changes 7 months later?



I have a Makita on the way...
 
That method still sounds pretty good if you don't want to go straight to M105 and a yellow/black wool. I'm sure 106FF would work but perhaps you can finish with UFSE.



I think I'm going to have LC purple and SIP as a go-to combo for medium to really bad swirls for both hard and soft clears... well maybe except for the Jet Black Bimmers.
 
Is there a video of a quality detailer using the rotary over the whole car... I'm just curious to see how someone else goes about doing it on video, not read about it on the forums...



Oh and I actually started detailing with a rotary few years back, and picked up a PC because on some paints, whether it was the paint, polish/pad, or my skill with the rotary, would not finish out perfectly with the rotary



If I had to choose, I would easily pick the Makita though, because 99% of the time I can finish perfectly on any paint.. it does help to have both though, and I plan on picking up the Flex soon as well
 
Rob Tomlin said:
SuperBee, is this still your preferred system, or would you make any changes 7 months later?



I have a Makita on the way...
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Yes, it is... and grats on the Makita.. You'll love it. :)
 
SuperBee364 said:
Yes, it is... and grats on the Makita.. You'll love it. :)
Click to expand...



Thanks.



What brand and size of backing plate do you recommend?



Also, the green and blue wool pads you refer to, are those also LC? What size, and where do you get them?
 
Also, is there one certain model of Makita that you guys prefer? Is it the 9227? I'm starting to wish after doing just five cars with my PC, that I had just gotten the rotary and then practiced on a few beaters.
 
Rob Tomlin said:
Thanks.



What brand and size of backing plate do you recommend?



Also, the green and blue wool pads you refer to, are those also LC? What size, and where do you get them?
Click to expand...



They are 6" Edge 2000 wool pads. You can get all of them from here...The Edge 2000 6 Inch Wool Buffing Pads all but the white finishing wool is available on that page. To get the white wool finishing pad, you have to call them to get it in the six inch size. The eight inch is available off of the web site.



Here's the purple foamed wool...Foamed Wool 6.5 inch Polishing/Buffing Pad



I'm not very happy with my backing plates. I need to research and replace mine. I don't use them often, though, I mostly use the Edge 2000 system which doesn't use backing plates. I only use backing plates for purple foamed wool or foam finishing pads. The new meguiars (W66) backing plate has been getting really good reviews lately. Todd (TH0001) says it's a really good plate. That's good enough for me.
 
SuperBee364 said:
They are 6" Edge 2000 wool pads. You can get all of them from here...The Edge 2000 6 Inch Wool Buffing Pads all but the white finishing wool is available on that page. To get the white wool finishing pad, you have to call them to get it in the six inch size. The eight inch is available off of the web site.



Here's the purple foamed wool...Foamed Wool 6.5 inch Polishing/Buffing Pad



I'm not very happy with my backing plates. I need to research and replace mine. I don't use them often, though, I mostly use the Edge 2000 system which doesn't use backing plates. I only use backing plates for purple foamed wool or foam finishing pads. The new meguiars (W66) backing plate has been getting really good reviews lately. Todd (TH0001) says it's a really good plate. That's good enough for me.
Click to expand...







Very helpful post Super, I appreciate it.



:thx



Those Edge 2000 pads are cool in that they are double sided, so each one is like having two pads....correct?



Edit: the purple foamed wool is out of stock! :furious:
 
Rob Tomlin said:
Very helpful post Super, I appreciate it.



:thx



Those Edge 2000 pads are cool in that they are double sided, so each one is like having two pads....correct?



Edit: the purple foamed wool is out of stock! :furious:
Click to expand...



Yep, they're like having 2 pads. It's really convenient! It makes switching different size pads a breeze as well.
 
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