When I apply Klasse is do it whisper thin… when rubbing onto the paint you can see it haze over almost instantly. The hazing is very light. This means the WOWO method works very well for me…. However strictly speaking I am wiping off a dry product. All this confirms what others have said that Klasse does need to be dry before removing,
Question about KSG curing and water condensation...
- Thread starter Ankhenaton
- Start date
TortoiseAWD
New member
We'll have to disagree, then. I spray a little Klasse on a panel, wipe it about with a microfiber towel, and immediately buff off any residue with a with a clean towel . . . no waiting, no drying time. Wipe on, wipe off.abbeysdad said:
Tort
Accumulator
Well-known member
Heh heh, we, me included, sure can think/talk this KSG stuff to death huh?
Noting that I'm a "wait before buffing" guy....I use W-O-W-O (and that's true on/off with no drying time) when I apply KSG to the black plastic trim, it makes for a more uniform look (less chance of streaking) and completely eliminates any chance of residue from the dried KSG in the "valleys" of the plastic's texture. W-O-W-O *does* bond, it *does* work...when these surfaces are not protected with KSG you know it right away and you can always feel a healthy coating of KSG, which feels completely different from the same materials with no KSG on them. *IMExperience* the surfaces where I use W-O-W-O need redone a little before the surfaces where I let it dry, but since they are two different materials (plastic vs. paint) there are other variables that might be significant. And it's not a big difference anyhow.
FWIW I was sure skeptical about the W-O-W-O method until I tried it on the plastic pieces, never would've tried it at all if I hadn't had issues applying KSG to those surfaces. It was a real "well I'll be.." epiphany but in hindsight it shouldn't have been as it'd be pretty weird for so many people to advocate a method that simply doesn't work. Some of those people
I might add, are folks whose opinions I have reason to respect. It was a little lesson in keeping an open mind.
I think you are getting any excess off, just that you (having applied it nice and thin) don't have an appreciable amount of the buffing media because you didn't have an appreciable amount of excess. I too use a single MF bonnet (for the minivan) and often it looks perfectly clean, but I figure there's still some KSG on it so I wash it out. I bet that if you used the same MF bonnet to remove, say, six layers (goofy exaggeration for the sake of example) you'd find the MF did have a noticeable amount of KSG on it. Heh heh, the real lesson behind your example (IMO) is that you're applying it right
Noting that I'm a "wait before buffing" guy....I use W-O-W-O (and that's true on/off with no drying time) when I apply KSG to the black plastic trim, it makes for a more uniform look (less chance of streaking) and completely eliminates any chance of residue from the dried KSG in the "valleys" of the plastic's texture. W-O-W-O *does* bond, it *does* work...when these surfaces are not protected with KSG you know it right away and you can always feel a healthy coating of KSG, which feels completely different from the same materials with no KSG on them. *IMExperience* the surfaces where I use W-O-W-O need redone a little before the surfaces where I let it dry, but since they are two different materials (plastic vs. paint) there are other variables that might be significant. And it's not a big difference anyhow.
TortoiseAWD said:
FWIW I was sure skeptical about the W-O-W-O method until I tried it on the plastic pieces, never would've tried it at all if I hadn't had issues applying KSG to those surfaces. It was a real "well I'll be.." epiphany but in hindsight it shouldn't have been as it'd be pretty weird for so many people to advocate a method that simply doesn't work. Some of those people
I might add, are folks whose opinions I have reason to respect. It was a little lesson in keeping an open mind.abbeysdad said:
I think you are getting any excess off, just that you (having applied it nice and thin) don't have an appreciable amount of the buffing media because you didn't have an appreciable amount of excess. I too use a single MF bonnet (for the minivan) and often it looks perfectly clean, but I figure there's still some KSG on it so I wash it out. I bet that if you used the same MF bonnet to remove, say, six layers (goofy exaggeration for the sake of example) you'd find the MF did have a noticeable amount of KSG on it. Heh heh, the real lesson behind your example (IMO) is that you're applying it right
this thread is rediculous!!! someone :lock: this up
I think ill disagree with everything accumulator wrote, but then secretly go follow his advice on the cars I do . . . :chuckle:
I have found that wiping KSG off after applying it to the entire car using that "whisper" thin coat produces results that I am satisfied with.
hey Ankhenaton - if I were you I would give it a shot - what have you to loose. Klasse is a fantastic product, otherwise it would not be discussed to death!
Good luck! :nixweiss
I think ill disagree with everything accumulator wrote, but then secretly go follow his advice on the cars I do . . . :chuckle:
I have found that wiping KSG off after applying it to the entire car using that "whisper" thin coat produces results that I am satisfied with.
hey Ankhenaton - if I were you I would give it a shot - what have you to loose. Klasse is a fantastic product, otherwise it would not be discussed to death!
Good luck! :nixweiss
TortoiseAWD said:
I think this method just removes most (if not all) of the acrylic. Think of the acrylic like a thin latex paint. Spread some on your car and immediately wipe it all off - how much paint is left on the car? (next someone will say they just wave the bottle over the surface! - lol)
Like most LSP's, this product was NOT designed as a WOWO. There's a reason the Klasse directions specify to wipe on a thin coat and let dry to a haze.
But hey, if you're convinced you get the same results of durability and shine, by all means.
I'll follow the directions and the get results I see.
TortoiseAWD
New member
How thick is the film build of latex paint vs. an acrylic sealant? How much more quickly does an acrylic sealant bond to the substrate vs. paint? Although I understand the analogy, I believe you're comparing apples and elephants.abbeysdad said:
Empirical evidence suggests that Klasse bonds almost instantly to paint. If it didn't, WOWO wouldn't work at all, or at least show severely compromised durability compared to apply-n-haze. To my knowledge, those that have used WOWO haven't reported any obvious durability issues.
There's also a reason why people experiment with products and alternate techniques.
Well, that was refreshingly condescending.
But hey, if you're convinced that I'm deluding myself, by all means . . .
Tort
someone should side by side this nonsense and establish an end all to this debate . . . I think that we have multiple people here with adequate knowledge of the Klasse system, with dissenting oppinions on how it is best applied/removed. Had I the time and patience to side by side these methods, I would . . I hate to see autopians argue like its a corvette forum . . (j/k, corvette owners are people too . . .) Iv got half the mind to call the people who know more than any of us on this - the people who made it. Their R&D supercedes by far our "oppinions" or interpretations of the directions.
And the many "application" guides written by our own autopian moderators and admin, people on autogeek and properautocare are also contradicting in nature, so it can leave one very confused and misguided on how to achieve the best results.....
I have done it both ways. I applied KSG to the entire surface of a black car and then removed it, because it was easy for me to see the residue. On my silver Nissan - I did it one panal at a time.
A properly prepped surface wil cause AIO (and properly applied AIO will cause KSG) to bond almost instantly once the product is applied and exposed to oxygen. It is a chemical reaction. That fact said -
I am agreeing with TORTISE and ACCUMULATORS oppinions - but Im not opposed to putting the dam stuff on the whole car and buffing it off.
I only bother posting because I am very familiar with this product, and I have been very happy with the results I have gotten, using both methods. It is not my intention to put down anyones suggestions, because some of your suggestions (all of you) have saved me hours in proper prep and application . . .
And the many "application" guides written by our own autopian moderators and admin, people on autogeek and properautocare are also contradicting in nature, so it can leave one very confused and misguided on how to achieve the best results.....
I have done it both ways. I applied KSG to the entire surface of a black car and then removed it, because it was easy for me to see the residue. On my silver Nissan - I did it one panal at a time.
A properly prepped surface wil cause AIO (and properly applied AIO will cause KSG) to bond almost instantly once the product is applied and exposed to oxygen. It is a chemical reaction. That fact said -
I am agreeing with TORTISE and ACCUMULATORS oppinions - but Im not opposed to putting the dam stuff on the whole car and buffing it off.
I only bother posting because I am very familiar with this product, and I have been very happy with the results I have gotten, using both methods. It is not my intention to put down anyones suggestions, because some of your suggestions (all of you) have saved me hours in proper prep and application . . .
I wish the makers of klasse were more open........Klasse has some of the poorest manufactures support available.....
The makers of Klasse should be supporting the user base by answering these type of questions. Has anyone every managed to speak to the makers of Klasse ? Who makes this stuff ? What is their customer help line number / e-mail address ?
Perm
The makers of Klasse should be supporting the user base by answering these type of questions. Has anyone every managed to speak to the makers of Klasse ? Who makes this stuff ? What is their customer help line number / e-mail address ?
Perm
shortspark
New member
Klasse SG is a very good product by the standards that count - looks, durability, longevity. I usually use wowo but I've also let it haze a bit. I have found no difference in any of the factors that I think are important (the ones that count to me). However, wowo is MUCH easier.
I use one coat of AIO to clean and 3 coats of SG (each coat 8-12 hours apart). But I must mention that I often top my truck after a wash with a homebrew of 1 part SG to 3 parts distilled water. Accordingly, I am continuously rejuvenating the lsp somewhat with a bit more SG every time I wash my truck. I don't use the homebrew all the time. Sometimes I'll use other favorite toppers of mine such as Wolfgang's Spray Sealant, Duragloss AW or Menzerna HGAS. They all enhance the shine and prolong protection.
I think it is important to "top" SG, no matter what method of application you use or how many coats of SG are applied. SG provides great protection and looks on its own but with good use of high quality toppers you could probably go a year before your next full polish and seal.
I use one coat of AIO to clean and 3 coats of SG (each coat 8-12 hours apart). But I must mention that I often top my truck after a wash with a homebrew of 1 part SG to 3 parts distilled water. Accordingly, I am continuously rejuvenating the lsp somewhat with a bit more SG every time I wash my truck. I don't use the homebrew all the time. Sometimes I'll use other favorite toppers of mine such as Wolfgang's Spray Sealant, Duragloss AW or Menzerna HGAS. They all enhance the shine and prolong protection.
I think it is important to "top" SG, no matter what method of application you use or how many coats of SG are applied. SG provides great protection and looks on its own but with good use of high quality toppers you could probably go a year before your next full polish and seal.
Accumulator
Well-known member
shortspark said:
IMO you'll be hard pressed to find a topper that offers better durability than another coat of the KSG, though some waxes do offer other benefits. With any topper having a limited durability period relative to KSG, I'd rather just top with more KSG if durability is the primary goal. I'd expect the same to be true with Zaino. Note that FWIW I generally don't polish my vehicles even once a year, I just keep reapplying my LSP, claying (Sonus green) as needed to keep things clean.
On the topic of going a full year: The one time I truly experimented (decent controls, observation, documentation, etc.) with untopped/never QDed/just washed KSG, I applied six layers to the MPV over the course of a few weeks. I then just washed it as needed with Griot's Car Wash (foamgun method) and spot-clayed as needed with Sonus green. The test period included a tough Ohio winter during which the MPV was neglected pretty badly. It kept beading for well over a year (I'd have to check my records but IIRC it was 16 months). Utterly astounded me. At that point it was sheeting in most areas but it still felt like there was KSG on the surface, that "plasticy" feel that's so different from bare paint. A few areas were even still beading but the beads were pretty big and irregular. The worst areas were those that I'd clayed the most often. Now I sure don't recommend letting a vehicle go like that, and I still don't buy the "once a year" marketing spiel of *any* LSP, but still, I experienced what I experience :nixweiss