Putting An End To The Layering Question...

M

MBZ 500E

New member
I thought of an idea that may help put an end to the question "Can this product be layered?" :idea



In college I did surface analysis study of stainless steel using a Scanning Electron Microscope (SEM). The microscope measures at micron levels and would be ideal to analyze thickness of a wax/polymer applied to a painted panel. The study will require a painted panel which will need to be cut into cross sections to analyze the side view.



The big question is are there any College Students or Professors that have access to an SEM and are you willing to take on this project? Typically any mechanical engineering program will have an SEM for metalurgy research so look their first.



I'd be willing to supply a sample of #26, GC, S100, Z5, Z2 to get things rolling.



Anyone interested in putting an end to this debate or have I gone nuts (note: don't answer that last question:D) .:nixweiss
 
Do you really think confusing the issue with facts will really change anyone's opinion? :D

No matter the results of any research, there will still be those that say, "I don't care what you think, I know ???? layers for me".

It might be interesting, but I don't think it would be worth the effort.



Charles
 
Hey,



I have to agree that a test like this may once and for all end the dispute of layering: yay or nay. Sure there will be those that will ignore the results, but it sure would be interesting!!!





Tim
 
Tim-agreed, it will at least prove the layerability, but it won't judge any improvement in appearance. Maybe a gloss meter should be added? ;)
 
Wax and sealents can be layered and this is a fact. Only the wax needs a 24 hour cure time before you apply the next coat. I know a guy who did a high tech test on this subject, a professor at my college. He did all the scientific bs, microscopic analyses, etc.
 
Ahhh...finally! :up



I've been trying to find out the answer to this for years!



I don't really believe in layering at all. I think that when you rub stuff on and then rub it off, it doesn't really stay on. And yet, you can definitely feel the difference with your hands in slipperiness.



Consequently, even though I don't "believe" in it I do it--if I don't have 2 layers of Klasse AIO and 4 layers of SG I feel like I'm doing something wrong.



I'd love to see your results! I don't care what products you test, I just want to see if there are measurable differences.



:xyxthumbs
 
What is the panel going to be cut with? Will cutting through the panel mess up the edges so much that the thickness of the wax will be immeasurable?
 
If anybody does move forward with this, you might want to contact Mike Phillips, for I seem to recall that he had some panels made up specifically for testing purposes (using standard automotive metal and paint) and was IIRC willing to share them.
 
ShadowMan said:
What is the panel going to be cut with? Will cutting through the panel mess up the edges so much that the thickness of the wax will be immeasurable?
Click to expand...



Probably the best solution to this questions is to go to a junkyard and find a decent late model vehicle hood. The hood would need to be cleaned with prepsol and cut it into pieces. Large Tin Snips should work well and leave a sharp edge to view. Each piece would then be measured prior to application of any wax/polymer to determine the thickness of the primer/paint/clearcoat. After each layer of wax a measurement should be taken to determine if the wax is indeed layering or not.





Are there any College students amongst us that have access to this equipment? Without it we can't get very far.



Ray,



You mentioned that a professor has already done this test, can you supply the info and the methods used. If it's already been done there's no point doing it again. But I'd love to see how the study went and the overall results analytically. Maybe you can email me the findings or put me in contact with him/her?:)
 
Scottwax said:
Tim-agreed, it will at least prove the layerability, but it won't judge any improvement in appearance. Maybe a gloss meter should be added? ;)
Click to expand...



Heh, I won't even go near this comment, I know better.:D :D
 
Ray said:
Wax and sealents can be layered and this is a fact. Only the wax needs a 24 hour cure time before you apply the next coat. I know a guy who did a high tech test on this subject, a professor at my college. He did all the scientific bs, microscopic analyses, etc.
Click to expand...



I am glad you cleared this up for us. Can he tell us how many layers we would need to build up say about a 1/4 inch of wax. I figure that should be sufficient to protect my paint from bug splats and water spots. :D
 
AlBoston said:
There are a few SEM's at work but getting access to them for a non-related project might be an issue. I will do some research.
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:cool: Let us know Al. :up





This sounds like a really interesting project, but it could be time consuming because you would want to examine test samples for:



a) Evidence of layering occuring

b) Different methods of application

c) Different products (paste vs. liquid for example)

d) Varying curing times

e) :nixweiss



Anyone know how much it costs to use a SEM per hour? :D
 
Al definitely let us know.





I was thinking maybe Autopia Members can donate $1.00 each to DaveB creating a pool which can be used at the Autopia Store for the person who takes on this project.:)
 
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