PS Detailed: 2005 Black Lexus LS430 30 man-hours

Dave N

Dave N

My PC goes to 7...
My water produces horrible spotting, so I've been trying to think of an inexpensive way to reduce the minerals in the water. I saw a professional water filter on one of the online detailing stores, but it was something like $200 or $300 (ouch!). I was at a home improvement store a while back and decided to check out their water filters. They had an "under the sink" canister filter housing for around $15, which could take various filter cartridges. I thought "what the heck", and bought the housing, a 5 micron filter, and some adapters -- the whole thing cost me around $20. I took it home and hooked it in line with my car washing hose.

filter.jpg


Well, the 5 micron filter (string type) did just about NOTHING as far as water spotting was concerned, so I went back and bought a 2 micron filter. This one looks like it has charcoal in it. This filter seems to have reduced the spotting some, but nothing dramatic. If I had it to do over, I wouldn't spend the money on this setup...but hey, I had to try!
 
Try Sears for a professionally installed water softener like Adamah stated.



These things looked cool, but it costs a considerable amount of $$ for me (a high school student and pennies to other people.)



If you have a wife, say it will make the showers better because of soft water, make clean up easier in the bathroom due to the Klasse on it and less water spotting. The soap will also lather up much better.



Then for your advantages, please your need to have soft water and no water spotting, and consider it a home improvment.



Last option, move to another state where the water is great, like KY (hook and Tim's car looks amazing.)



Jason
 
Hi Dave N

Welcome to the friendliest and most civil forum on the net . . . at least in the car care field.

The results you experienced are not surprizing. The first filter you purchased was designed to eliminate <em class='bbc'>particulate[/i] pollution. Particulates are <em class='bbc'>particles[/i] -- bits of stuff. The finer the filter, the smaller the "bits" it will filter out.

Water spotting is, generally, mineral residue . . . the solid matter previously dissolved in the water. The minerals exist as <em class='bbc'>elements or molecules[/i]. Elements are single atoms or molecules all of the same type of atoms. Molecules are combinations of two or more atoms, either of the same elements, or different ones. A single atom is very small!! 2 microns -- the "screen" size of the stronger filter you bought -- is about a gazillion times larger than most atoms. A filter that would, mechanically, filter out most atoms would allow little or no water through, either. The same goes for filters that would, mechanically, filter out small to medium sized molecules.

Charcoal filters eliminate things like odours and smells from water -- these are gaseous pollutants (gases dissolved in the water).

What one needs is something that removes the minerals in the water. A water distiller does this, but is expensive to purchase and to operate. Reverse osmosis does it, but residential models produce low volumes of water and waste lots of water in the process (there are cities than depend on RO, but they have purchased HUGE RO equiptment and they generallydraw the water to be treated from the ocean, so there is no problem with the expense of the water).
 
hope your "poor man's grill/ultra cutting table hookup" isn't the same, we want you to come back :D



well I think it'll work, just might need to change the filter a lot.



(oops looking back I thought you wanted particulate filtration since that's the filter you got) oh it hard water has minerals dissolved in it, it can't be physically filtered.
 
You thought the Chemistry Regent was difficult, try taking the AP Chemistry exam. I was sweating bullets just looking at the darn thing. I got a 1 though, which translates into just trying it (scale of 1-5 on these gosh darn AP tests, 1 for being poor, and 5 for masterful.)



OH well, the AP test doesn't matter, just taking the class is good enough of a challenge for me. Bye bye Calculus, I just don't get it, didn't pass one exam or quiz yet. So by next term, consider the class dropped.



Later,

Jason
 
A couple of people mentioned a water softener -- the odd thing is that we DO have a water softener! We're on a well and our water quality has been going down hill for the past few years. It now has something in it that produces a white chalky residue where water dries. I know for a fact that this is something that has become a problem in just the past cople of years, because my last car was black and I didn't have this problem before (and the spots also appear on air-dried dishes, where there was no problem before). I don't know, maybe it's lime in the water -- does a softener remove this? Oh well, I'm living with my parents right now, but will be buying my own house soon. I can only hope that the water in the town I'm moving to is better...



Oh yes, the stuff you see in the background is for my next project: a propane-powered QD apparatus made from "ultra cut" strips of MF towells (this can easilty be converted into a quick-dryer for those who don't like to wipe :p )
 
FLONI -- thanks.



Dave N -- Excellent, we have need for a couple more mad inventors!!



If the problem is lime, it can be percipitated out (by being exposed to the right chemicals). You need to have your water analysed, so you know what is in it. There are companies that will do this. I would go on the net and find some, then call them. You have to know what the problem is before you can try to figure out a cure. And, there is a cure. People have been dealing with water a long time. Depending on the problem, the cure might be costly, or, maybe not. But, at least you will know what the problem is.



I do not know if you have bottled water delivery service in your area. I do. My family drinks distilled water, to get around the problems you discribe.
 
Dave N,



You're on the right track. However, 2 microns will not remove the chemicals and minerals causing your watr spots. To do this successfully, you need a reverse osmosis filter (H2r0).



By the way, washing your car with soft water is BAD! How do you think that water get soft?



DavdB
 
Haha..good old chem AP! I was somehow able to muster a 5 on that test which allowed me to skip my intro chem classes in my chem E curriculum. Kind of a mistake though..it is always good to refresh your memory to do better in more advanced classes. So, Jason, it is probably better for you in the long run to not have done that well on that test!



Funny thing is darbh probably knows more chem than I do now, hearing about molecules and atoms was quite reminiscent! :) One caveat with "softened" water is that it has plenty of ions in it, including, sodium, potassium, and chloride. While this is fine for our bodies internally and externally, it may not be the best for our car finishes, and may still cause quite a bit of spotting! While there is less calcium in softened water, nothing beats deionized/distilled water.
 
darbh - yes, we've been drinking bottled water for a few years now. Our well water used to be really good, I don't know what happened...



DavidB - You mentioned that washing with soft water is bad. I personally don't care for water that is too soft -- it's hard to rinse off. But, how is soft water bad for a car? As I understand it, a water softener is just a big ion exchange filter that removes ions (mainly iron in our case). Admittedly, my knowledge of this process is limited to protein purification on ion exchange columns in a lab, but I think the theory is the same. The resin (is it a mixed bead resin, i.e. pulls out both + and - charged particals, in a water softener?) pulls out charged particles from the water as it passes thru, then when the resin is saturated, it is "recharged" by flushing with a bunch of NaCl (salt) which strips away the particles that are "stuck" onto the resin. Does this leave some residual salt behind that can harm a car's finish? I didn't really think that my little contraption would work very well, but I was willing to spend $20 to see if it made a small difference. I know that, given time, charcoal will absorb very small molecules. I thought that maybe the more expensive charcoal filter would at least reduce the crap that ends up on my truck.



OK, I guess the reason I'm posting all of this is to see if anyone can further elaborate on the benefits or drawbacks of a water softening system. Anyone?
 
Whoah...getting off topic, but I STRONGLY STRONGLY encourage people here that have kids to encourage them to drink tap water, rather than bottled water. Unfortunately, unless you buy special bottle water, it is NOT fluoridated, which is very important for good oral health. I believe a study was published in either JAMA or the New England Journal not too long ago highlighting the concern that bottled water is becoming TOO popular, especially with kids/young adults.

I just did a quick search and came up with some more reading information, if you are interested:

1, 2, 3

But then again, there are always those challenge years of scientific research. This is a double edged sword as it promotes advancement but until accepted in the medical community, I will stick with what works.
 
hey Yell00ITR, my water's not florinated (:)) but that's becuase it's well water (not the kind where you go out to the well :D) the neighbor hood has pipes that tap in to the water table far below
 
Hey, I just turned 600 (posts, that is).



Yell00ITR -- interesting point. I don't think flouride is of much use for adults, but you have a point re kids. There are fluoride mouth washes and fluoride rinsing solutions. But, getting the kids to regularly use it might be a challenge. Now, the kids probably get fluoride in water at school.
 
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