Protection against tree sap mist?

[Accumulator]

Thanks bunches. This is the kind of info I really need. Sounds like FK1000P is in my near future.

I`d be interested in your feedback, whether pro/con.

I`ll use up the Zaino products on the garage queen, it doesn`t get exposed to sap, etc. I`ve layered it on thick, and I like the appearance on my dark charcoal (technically "Grigio Granito") car. But I`m going to experiment on the daily drivers.

You might like the look of the FK just as well. I ended up liking it on a color *very* similar to that even though I didn`t expect to.

As far as car soap, it`s been Zaino again, specifically Z7. On my treated cars, it seems to work OK on the tree sap. MUCH better than IUDJ no rinse. The concentration used for no rinse doesn`t seem strong enough to cut it. Haven`t try Optimum for this..Is Z7 known to be harsh on the various LSP`s?

I`ve never tried Z7, preferring a 50:50 mix of 3D Pink Car Soap : Griot`s Car Wash.

I simply *LOVE* IUDJ...but only as a Drying Aid and/or Quick Detailer. I *GREATLY* prefer it to Optimum No Rinse, which I`m using up on household stuff.

If a shampoo compromises FK1000P then I`d reserve said shampoo for things like wheels/wells/undercarriage. Good shampoos have very little effect on decent LSPs.

Coatings: I find it tricky to ensure a proper application with no high spots. Note that I`m not the dullest knife in any drawer I don`t mind waxing every now and then,so redoing a bit more frequently isn`t a problem *for me*. And I do spot-correction if a vehicle gets marred, which can be a big deal with coatings since you can`t just redo a small area as easily. The coatings I`ve used on my wheels did last longer than the FK1000P though, by quite a bit. Might be perfect for you...but I`d still pay a Pro instead of DIYing it.

Pledge- I wouldn`t/don`t use that on furniture or anything else. Consider what`s in it/how it works...zero reason to use it IMO as there are countless other products that do the same things at least as well without leaving a film that retains contamination and looks awful (might not noticed *how* awful until you do the wood furniture with something good ).

 

[4regt4]

I`d be interested in your feedback, whether pro/con.



You might like the look of the FK just as well. I ended up liking it on a color *very* similar to that even though I didn`t expect to.



I`ve never tried Z7, preferring a 50:50 mix of 3D Pink Car Soap : Griot`s Car Wash.

I simply *LOVE* IUDJ...but only as a Drying Aid and/or Quick Detailer. I *GREATLY* prefer it to Optimum No Rinse, which I`m using up on household stuff.

If a shampoo compromises FK1000P then I`d reserve said shampoo for things like wheels/wells/undercarriage. Good shampoos have very little effect on decent LSPs.

Coatings: I find it tricky to ensure a proper application with no high spots. Note that I`m not the dullest knife in any drawer I don`t mind waxing every now and then,so redoing a bit more frequently isn`t a problem *for me*. And I do spot-correction if a vehicle gets marred, which can be a big deal with coatings since you can`t just redo a small area as easily. The coatings I`ve used on my wheels did last longer than the FK1000P though, by quite a bit. Might be perfect for you...but I`d still pay a Pro instead of DIYing it.

Pledge- I wouldn`t/don`t use that on furniture or anything else. Consider what`s in it/how it works...zero reason to use it IMO as there are countless other products that do the same things at least as well without leaving a film that retains contamination and looks awful (might not noticed *how* awful until you do the wood furniture with something good ).

First of all, I mentioned Lemon Pledge as "tongue-in-cheek". Wouldn`t consider using it at all, but it is surprisingly effective at protecting race cars from molten rubber. Has to be applied several times per day. Car detailers refer to "6 footers" as a quasi-acceptable finish, Lemon Pledge only has to look good from the grandstands. Which it does.

My "garage queen" wasn`t much of a garage queen last month. I used it for a 4 week 7000 mile trip. Got covered in mud, rain, and god knows what else. And too many rock chips to count, which I`m attempting to fix now. Amazing at what a dirt clod at triple digit speeds can do. The factory paint is PPG, which seems to be pretty tough. But bringing the car back up to snuff will be a winter project.

I admit to being skeptical regarding the labeling of products. I mean, it appears that we just have to trust suppliers as to what their products are. Some of these companies are quite small. Suppose a down-and-out wax maker decides to relabel his wax as a sealant? How would we know? Is there a legitimate test of some sort?

Of course, that is one of the functions of a forum such as this, to attempt to police the claims of vendors. "Hey, Acme sealant only lasts as long as their old wax. And that is not what it used to be before the Road Runner fell off the cliff." (I hope you are old enough to get that reference.)

So.... Is there a formal definition delineating coatings from sealants from wax (carnuba or polymer)?

FK1000P is intriguing. I`ll order in the next few days.

Meanwhile, I just washed the Volt that was coated with Finish First and Zaino CS. Used Z7 soap, ordinary concentration, method, etc. Came out very clean and slick. No tree sap, although for the last month or two this has not been a big issue. Car had not been washed at all in 2 months.

GMC Acadia is filthy, I`m procrastinating. Wife`s car. It is so stupid large that I need a ladder for the top. No rinse IUDJ, etc. is impractical. Just use a hose and a saturated mitt. Hope for the best. I hate this car. Nearly impossible to dry, either with towels or leaf blower. What a turd.

Hans.

 

[rlmccarty2000]

4regt4 you are catching on pretty quick. Manufacturers can claim anything and get away with it. Meguires is a big offender. They put “wax” on everything when it does not contain any real wax at all (this includes a brand new product similar to Hydro2). Detailers have to rely on each other to pass critical information on to each other. Detailing supplies are costly and no one wants to buy every product to find the best available, so we just read the manufacturers hype and hope for the best. We normally cut the manufacturers claims in half. If they say something lasts 6 months it will last 3 months, maybe. There needs to be a Consumer Reports for detailers. The YouTube channel with the Forensic Detailer comes the closest to someone who will say a product is b.s. and we need more independent reviewers to keep manufacturers honest.

 

[Accumulator]

4regt4 you are catching on pretty quick. Manufacturers can claim anything and get away with it. Meguires is a big offender..

Oh man...get me going on that one! I felt sorry for [a prominent former Meguiar`s employee] who had to say something in their defense when I went off about their use of certain words.

.. and when somebody tried that (the Wax Report, the results got slammed something awful, not entirely without reason...

 

[Accumulator]

First of all, I mentioned Lemon Pledge as "tongue-in-cheek"..

OK, copy that, thanks for saying so. It wouldn`t have been the first time somebody tried to post about it being a decent solution!

Amazing at what a dirt clod at triple digit speeds can do...

Yes indeed, the last time that happened to me it blew half the front bumpercover off my wife`s A8, hit it just like a cannonball. Had to isolate some wiring before continuing so I could turn on the lights when needed without shorting things out.

The factory paint is PPG, which seems to be pretty tough. But bringing the car ..back up to snuff will be a winter project.

PPG makes lots of different paints...I`m OK with some of `em but generally prefer Spies Hecker. Eh, I`m spoiled by all the Audis.

Touching up chips is another very involved topic that`s not nearly as straightforward as one might think despite being basically "clean out the chips and fill them with paint".

I admit to being skeptical regarding the labeling of products. I mean, it appears that we just have to trust suppliers as to what their products are. Some of these companies are quite small. Suppose a down-and-out wax maker decides to relabel his wax as a sealant? How would we know? Is there a legitimate test of some sort?

Some reputable manufacturers have their products tested under properly controlled conditions by credible entitie. I.e., using LSPs on fresh repaints can be problematic, don`t want to interfere with the outgassing/curing of the new paint; Optimum Car Wax was extensively tested by Ford, who proclaimed it suitable for use on "post-production paintwork". Some Automotive International/ValuGard (yeah..SIC) products are approved by virtually all the major automakers. And when a majority of people here agree about something, that`s usually pretty reliable.

Of course, that is one of the functions of a forum such as this, to attempt to police the claims of vendors. "Hey, Acme sealant only lasts as long as their old wax. And that is not what it used to be before the Road Runner fell off the cliff." (I hope you are old enough to get that reference.)

So.... Is there a formal definition delineating coatings from sealants from wax (carnuba or polymer)?

Used to be that "wax" meant something primarily natural- carnauba, paraffin, etc. But these days words like "wax" get used in utterly inconsistent ways. FK1000P is a 100% synthetic product yet it`s called a "wax" because that`s what Floyd Meguiar decided to call it and you didn`t argue with Floyd or you became an ex-employee.

FK1000P is intriguing. I`ll order in the next few days.

I`m confident you`ll find it satisfactory.

Meanwhile, I just washed the Volt that was coated with Finish First and Zaino CS. Used Z7 soap, ordinary concentration, method, etc. Came out very clean and slick. No tree sap, although for the last month or two this has not been a big issue. Car had not been washed at all in 2 months.

Doesn`t it figure that the smallest, least consequential, car is the one that cleans up easily?!? At least that one`s checked off the list.

GMC Acadia is filthy, I`m procrastinating. Wife`s car. It is so stupid large that I need a ladder for the top. No rinse IUDJ, etc. is impractical. Just use a hose and a saturated mitt. Hope for the best. I hate this car. Nearly impossible to dry, either with towels or leaf blower. What a turd..

Heh heh, I switched *to* a Tahoe to get something *smaller* for the dogs so you get limited sympathy Re the size of an Arcadia Sorry, couldn`t resist...And yeah, I keep the (entire) Tahoe just as nice as my Garage Queens But hey, I have to since they`re not building that version of it any more and I hate the newer ones.

But seriously, you oughta get some good work platforms so you can wash such things safely. Gee...I use five of `em when I do the Tahoe, *NOT* gonna fall and change my life. I forget what they cost (and it was a bundle), but compared to paralysis? Money well-spent; my best friend will never quite be the same after a "little fall", but at least she`s not in a wheelchair for life like a guy I know who "sure never expected to fall like that".

 

[4regt4]

Hi. Me again. I`m resurrecting an older thread, mostly for context. To review, we have issues with a microscopic tree sap fog that turns car paint into what feels like sandpaper.

I got some FK1000. Weather conditions were not great at the time to properly wash and prep the car, but I decided to do a test on the hood of our dark red metallic GMC. It was humid, cloudy, and about 50deg. (That`s "F", not "C"). The hood had some spots of microscopic tree sap and some pitting, so I washed with Dawn and used a clay bar and isopropanol for the stubborn spots. I divided the hood vertically into thirds. The left and right thirds got Zaino AIO. After sitting overnight, the left got Z2, the right FK1000. The center I left without anything. Then for giggles, I coated the entire lower half of the hood with Zaino CS, including the center part that had no other treatment. So essentially the hood was now divided into 6 parts. After a few days, I gave the hood a quick wash. Left and right beaded up nicely, but the lower ZCS section sort of "sheeted". ie. It didn`t really bead, but the water kind of slid off.

3 months of winter weather and a couple of washings (Zaino Z7) later......

The left (Z2) still beaded as before. But the FK1000 was now not beading so well, and some of it was more like sheeting. The lower half (ZCS) was still sheeting. The water wasn`t really sliding off, it just sort of sat there in one consistent sheet.

I was a bit disappointed in the FK1000, but to be fair, it could have not adhered or cured well under the conditions. I put it on kind of thick, let it sit for nearly 2 hours (trying to give it a chance to cure because of temp) before buffing. It seemed to buff out reasonably easily.

So... After 3 months, I just did a thorough wash and applied FK1000 all over. 60 deg day, partly cloudy. Not sure how thick to apply FK1000, so I did sparingly in some areas, thicker in others. This time, I had difficulty getting it to buff out. The haze didn`t want to "break", for lack of a better term. No ZCS this time.

We`ll wait and see. It looks great, except up close where you can see the tiny deep pits from prior exposure to the tree sap. But as a 6 footer, it`s fine.

Hans.

 

[rlmccarty2000]

Thin is better than thick. Thicker just makes it harder to wipe off without any real benefits.

 

[Accumulator]

4regt4- As a big fan/advocate of FK1000P, who typically uses it over ZAIO, I found your post very interesting! Especially that it seemed to get compromised quicker than the Z2.

I don`t know whether the temp factored in or not, I`ve never applied it in such chilly conditions.

I do find that more than one coat lasts a lot longer, enough so that it`s definitely worth doing IMO.

As noted, thin *thin* *THIN*. If a tin doesn`t last over a decade on something Suburban-size you`re using *way* too much. I try to think of it as bonding at the molecular level, and if I can clearly see it on my paint I figure I used (a bit) too much. Your difficulty in buffing it off sounds like *WAY* too much to me, but as long as you got it all off there shouldn`t be any problems.

Just don`t do it that thick if/when applying additional coats or you could precipitate solvent action that can result in (really hard to fix) pseudo-holograms. Try to be very gentle about any layering (which I`d absolutely still do, like...after each of the next two washes- in warmer weather though).

Letting it sit for hours (or even overnight) has never caused problems for me.

I`ll spare you my opinions on washing with Dawn (which I don`t hate the way some do) and using IPA for tree sap...hey, whatever works for you is fine with me. I just wish the FK had held up better so you wouldn`t have to redo it already!

 

[4regt4]

Thanks Accumulator.

I`ll apply a second coat. Thin.....

As for the Dawn and IPA (around these parts, that`s a beer...), I was looking to go harsh as I had some tough issues to deal with. Normally I don`t use them. And shouldn`t have to going forward (I hope).

I royally brain farted in not taking a pic after squirting the hood with water before stripping it. Water, beading, etc. really show up on the dark red. I did a similar experiment (but not with FK1000) on my Volt, but being white it would have been difficult to photograph. Oh well.

I was going to put Zaino CS over the FK1000 (I`m not really sure why...), but I think I`ll refrain.

Hans.

 

[Ancient_1]

Last year I did a hood with 4 different combinations of coatings. The car gets parked under a pine tree and I wopuld guess what contaminants that show on the hood is tree sap. The one section that washed completely clean was done with Syncro. The PS front was MOHS+Booster, DS front was CSL+Gliss and the DS rear section was CSL+Exov3. It was no contest that the Syncro (MOHS+Skin) was far superior to the others. This was done mid/late July and the car was coated in Feb.\

Also here is a picture on my Buick that had been parked under the same tree for almost a year. I am sure the contaminates showing are also tree sap and of all the products I tried the only one that had any affect was McKee`s 37 Tire & Rubber Rejuvenator.

What really surprised me was what didn`t work.
3M adhesive remover
GTechniq W7 Tar and Glue Remover
Stoners tarminator
Bug Squash
a few different APC`s
Tuff Shine tire cleaner

 

[wannafbody]

I don`t think CS over FK1000 is a good combo. FK1000 over CS would be fine.

 

[Accumulator]

I wouldn`t add anything to the FK1000P except more FK1000P (not even their designated topper, Pink Wax). IF something else were better I`d just use that instead.

 

[Accumulator]

As for the Dawn and IPA (around these parts, that`s a beer...), I was looking to go harsh as I had some tough issues to deal with. Normally I don`t use them. And shouldn`t have to going forward (I hope)..

I fear I came across wrong; IME Dawn just isn`t effective enough to justify its use given its overall inferiority to a quality Car Shampoo. I know it cleans baby ducks great, but IME it doesn`t clean cars all that well and it sure doesn`t compromise LSPs/etc. for me the way some expect it to.

Never hurt trim, never caused any problems at all except that I had to rewash with something truly effective. That`s what I meant by not hating on it.

I was going to put Zaino CS over the FK1000 (I`m not really sure why...), but I think I`ll refrain..

Good plan IME, didn`t see that before I posted my "I wouldn`t do it" above. Heh heh, I`d kinda avoid doing *anything* when "not really sure why" but then I`m often accused of overthinking this stuff

 

[4regt4]

OK, minor update:

Washed the car yesterday to get it ready for an additional coat of FK1000. What impressed me was the "micro beads" that formed when I sprayed the car. ie. I soaked the car, but water practically flew off and left a zillion little pin points bubbles. I hadn`t seen that before. I usually get bigger beads/bubbles - like 1/8" - 1/4", but I was using the Z-CS previously over the other coatings. So we`ll see how well it ages...... (and, no, I won`t be using the Z-CS this time)

The only thing I`m wondering about is the FK1000 seems to have a lot of static electricity. When I walk very close to the car, my arm hairs stand on end. Rubbing a dry MF towel over it results in a loud crackling sounds. Zaino Z6 seems to cut down on static. Do you see any disadvantage in applying it over FK1000?

Hans.

PS: (edit) Temp this time was about 75deg. The FK1000 sort of "slid" on - slippery like - , rather than being kind of "grippy" as it was in the lower temps. Much easier to apply. What I`m having some difficulty with is determining where I`ve adequately coated the surface, and where I might have missed. It is not terribly easy to me to see it as it goes on. Maybe the color of the car has something to do with this. So it`s entirely possible that I have too much on in places.

 

[4regt4]

Last year I did a hood with 4 different combinations of coatings. The car gets parked under a pine tree and I wopuld guess what contaminants that show on the hood is tree sap. The one section that washed completely clean was done with Syncro. The PS front was MOHS+Booster, DS front was CSL+Gliss and the DS rear section was CSL+Exov3. It was no contest that the Syncro (MOHS+Skin) was far superior to the others. This was done mid/late July and the car was coated in Feb.

Impressive results. I`m not very familiar with most of the products you mention, but I`ll have to look into "Syncro"

Thanks,
Hans.

 

[wannafbody]

IME, Clear Seal never had that tight, tiny beading of Z2. I just think it`s because it`s something different. I always topped CS with Z8 for that extra pop. I just love Z8 on metallics.

 

[Accumulator]

OK, minor update:

Washed the car yesterday to get it ready for an additional coat of FK1000. What impressed me was the "micro beads" that formed when I sprayed the car. ie. I soaked the car, but water practically flew off and left a zillion little pin points bubbles. I hadn`t seen that before. I usually get bigger beads/bubbles - like 1/8" - 1/4"..

The trick now (well, after another coat or so) is to reapply as soon as the beads start to be different..bigger/less spherical/whatever..different isn`t good so don`t let it get away from you and you can just wash/LSP for a long, long time.

The only thing I`m wondering about is the FK1000 seems to have a lot of static electricity. When I walk very close to the car, my arm hairs stand on end. Rubbing a dry MF towel over it results in a loud crackling sounds...

Huh, I can`t say I`ve ever experienced it like that..maybe all the rubbing from the thick application factors in. MAYBE (big "maybe") going over it with FK425, which *SUPPOSEDLY* has anti-static properties (can`t prove it by me..) would help.

Zaino Z6 seems to cut down on static. Do you see any disadvantage in applying it over FK1000?

Even if it does bond OK, I bet it`d mess with your ability to refresh the FK and lead to having to redo with the AIO. I wouldn`t do it.

Temp this time was about 75deg. The FK1000 sort of "slid" on - slippery like - , rather than being kind of "grippy" as it was in the lower temps. Much easier to apply..

Part of that is just applying it over itself, but I bet the weather did help too.

What I`m having some difficulty with is determining where I`ve adequately coated the surface, and where I might have missed. It is not terribly easy to me to see it as it goes on. Maybe the color of the car has something to do with this. So it`s entirely possible that I have too much on in places.

Noting that I use it mostly on silverish/white/etc. colors..I can hardly ever see it clearly on the paint, in part because I apply it so thin. I go by feel and when I fog the surface with my breath (which I basically *always* do when buffing off LSPs) I can see if I`ve missed anything or been less than uniform and can reapply and then buff that area later.

It does get much easier IME...I no longer even give thought to actually seeing the LSP residue on the paint, if I do I figure I put it on too thick.

See if going by feel, and working on being methodical, helps. I mean...I just don`t find that I`m skipping areas. Remember that it doesn`t take much to achieve an adequate application, so if the applicator goes over an area I`d *assume* (uh-oh!) it`s LSPed.

EDIT: I`m really looking forward to hearing how it holds up over time and with regard to contamination. I *have* had tree sap be a minor issue on FK1000P, but it wasn`t the disaster it would`ve been with my other LSPs.

 

[4regt4]

Well at the risk of opening up another can of worms - or maybe I should say can of wax.......

I did a web search for comparisons of FK1000 and Collinite 845. Lots of stuff came up. It seems the *general* consensus is that both are very good, but FK1000 might last a bit longer, and 845 had a better appearance to some, likely because of carnauba content.

So, I`m thinking of layering a coat of 845 over a couple of layers of FK1000.

Or am I overthinking this?

Hans.

 

[Accumulator]

4regt4- I`m so glad you`re thinking that I sure won`t suggest you`re overthinking at all!

I bet you`ve already ready my take on this stuff, so apologies if I`m just wasting bandwidth.

I used 845 for ages and it`s good stuff, and unlike FK1000P (generally speaking..) it`s good on trim too. BUT there`s no comparison IME when it comes to durability or protection, and I don`t think that topping with the 845 would enhance the look either. What it *would* do is preclude adding another coat of FK1000P now and then, and I firmly believe that doing that is a great way to stay ahead of the curve.

I`d like to hear what others apparently find regarding a "better appearance". No, no..not arguing/disagreeing and it`s all subjective eye-of-the-beholder stuff. I can sorta see a diff between 845 and, say...476S, but the 845 is a kinda "bright" LSP in its own right, not entirely dissimilar to the FK. Yeah, a *bit* more depth/jetting on some colors, but I still wouldn`t consider it until you`ve lived with the FK for a while. I thought I`d *HATE* it on my dark vehicles, but after a month or so (including all those compliments from strangers...like I`ve never had before) I decided I actually liked how it looked.

BUT...all the above is just my experience/opinion, and at least two people here have had different experiences where Collinite outperformed the FK1000P, and with looks being so subjective I dunno whether you`ll see it the way I do or not.

Whatever you do, I hope you post back about how it goes...both the initial job and your experience over time. Hope it works out great for you, it sure oughta since both those products are good.

Thin, *thin*, *THIN* applications of both, keep the FK off trim, don`t try to buff it off too soon, don`t layer it too much/quickly lest you risk solvent action causing pseudo-holograms. I like to do the second/third coats of FK after each of the next regularly scheduled washes and I`d stop at two-three layers and just reapply when you notice a change in something like the beading.

 

[4regt4]

I guess what brought this to mind is comments by some in favor of layering different products. I could see where this could cause problems, or, on the other hand, may be an improvement. Somewhere in the deep recesses of my mental attic is a comment that I read about using a synthetic for protection, and a carnauba for appearance. Can`t remember what specific brands were being discussed.

The car I`d most like to experiment on is my Volt, as it isn`t being hit as hard by the tree sap mist. If I ended up with some incompatible combo, no big deal. However, the car is white (not even metallic), and it is difficult to see if any product is better than another. It currently is covered with a very old product that I found in the back of my garage called "Finish First". The stuff is by far the slickest that I`ve used. Other than that, I know little about it. But maybe it is a candidate for layering.....

Hans.