Product I can use before Meguiar`s Ultimate Compound for better results?

sremick

New member
I am a beginner/home detailer with a Porter Cable DA.

After many years I decided to dig out my gear and try to give my car another deep detail. I started with Meguiar`s Ultimate compound with an orange bad but was not getting good results. I then tried a yellow pad and got better results but I still feel like there are more swirls being left behind than I`d like.

It seems that UC is supposed to be pretty strong. Can you recommend a product stronger than UC that I could use before UC that would then have whatever fine swirls it leaves behind cleaned up by UC? I like the Meguiar`s brand but am not wedded to it if there`s simply not something in the Meguair`s line that fits the bill.

I know the new M105 is reformulated to be ok w/ a DA but maybe that`s still not the best option for amateur me. I look here for suggestions. Thanks!
 
Standard industry process is to always follow the use of a compound and cutting pad with the use of a polish product and a polishing pad. Been the accepted process for decades.
 
Standard industry process is to always follow the use of a compound and cutting pad with the use of a polish product and a polishing pad. Been the accepted process for decades.

Not sure how this addresses my question...? Unless you`re saying I`m wrong to think to use a harsher compound and then UC. If my need for a stronger compound means that instead of preceding UC with something, I replace UC with something stronger, then I`m ok with that and my question still stands.
 
Standard industry process is to always follow the use of a compound and cutting pad with the use of a polish product and a polishing pad. Been the accepted process for decades.

Not sure how this addresses my question...? Unless you`re saying I`m wrong to think to use a harsher compound and then UC. If my need for a stronger compound means that instead of preceding UC with something, I replace UC with something stronger, then I`m ok with that and my question still stands.

What he`s saying is that often times, when you use a heavier compound, it`s a really good idea to do a second pass with a LIGHTER compound and pad to remove any hazing/defects left by the heavy compound and further refine the paint.

IMO - Turtle Wax Hybrid Solutions 1&Done Compound is way better than Megs UC and finishes better WITHOUT needing a lighter, follow-up polish. But that`s just MY experience
 
You said --- "I am a beginner/home detailer with a Porter Cable DA." " but maybe that`s still not the best option for amateur me."

What is the condition of the paintwork on the entire vehicle ?

What brand pads are you talking about you used ?

What is the process you used ?

What is the make, model, year, and color paint of your car ?

How many pads did you use on each step ?

For example, to completely paint correct most vehicles, most of us who do this for a living, may go through 12 + -, 5" pads, depending on the size of the vehicle, the amount of correction the entire paintwork needs, and how much is the Client paying for the level of correction.

Many of us have used Meguiars 105 and 205 since they were first invented, along with other compounds and polishes from Menzerna, Optimum, etc..

I prefer to use Rotary Power to do all the paintwork correction needed, but have also tried other Random Orbitals just to see how they worked..
And I know how to NOT leave swirls, etc., in the paint... :)

Dan F
 
Some good advice here, the only thing I can add is you want to view paint correction more as paint leveling. So you are not removing scratches per say but really you`re removing a micro layer of paint down to where the scratch or scratches reside, hence "leveling".

So think like a person finishing out a wood table. Starts with a coarse grit then works down to a fine grit to smooth everything over. So if you`re starting with a coarse compound and say an orange pad you will level out some scratches but you`re also going to leave behind finer scratches but they "should be" now uniform. Then you come back with a mild polish, use a new pad also (proper paint leveling will use several pads) and because you`re using a porter machine you may need a 3rd step. What can be done in 2 steps with the newer random orbit machines may take 3 or 4 steps with the older machines.

As I always say, this is an "art & science", it`s not just slapping a pad on and grabbing some dupont red paste and think you`re gonna get great results. Take your time and read up.

Anthony
 
You said --- "I am a beginner/home detailer with a Porter Cable DA." " but maybe that`s still not the best option for amateur me."

What is the condition of the paintwork on the entire vehicle ?

What brand pads are you talking about you used ?

What is the process you used ?

What is the make, model, year, and color paint of your car ?

How many pads did you use on each step ?

For example, to completely paint correct most vehicles, most of us who do this for a living, may go through 12 + -, 5" pads, depending on the size of the vehicle, the amount of correction the entire paintwork needs, and how much is the Client paying for the level of correction.

Many of us have used Meguiars 105 and 205 since they were first invented, along with other compounds and polishes from Menzerna, Optimum, etc..

I prefer to use Rotary Power to do all the paintwork correction needed, but have also tried other Random Orbitals just to see how they worked..
And I know how to NOT leave swirls, etc., in the paint... :)

Dan F

A lot of good questions here that would really help us dial in the best answer for your.

Condition and the vehicle would be the two I`d zero in on first. It it is a vehicle in rough shape with hard paint, Meguiars UC won`t put a dent in it.

I may be in the minority here, but I`m not a fan of the Meguiar`s Ultimate Compound and Polish. I started with them and soon found there were others which worked better and yielded better results. The Griots BOSS lines is my current favorite, but I know there are other quality products from brands like Sonax and 3D which will probably be just as effective.
 
sremick:
I hate to bust your swirl-removing bubble, BUT the Porter-Cable Dual-Action orbital buffing machine (PC-DA as its abbreviated in this forum) while better than doing it by hand, is NOT a great machine for removing deep swirls and imperfections.
One "problem" it may have is the size AND age of the backing plate you are using. If you are using a 6" plate and corresponding pad size, the power of the rotation or orbit motion is being "lost" due to the flex or deflection of the backing plate. There is a tendency for a novice user of this particular buffing machine to bear down on it and get some pressure at the edge of the backing plate and pad to bit into surface to remove a defect. This causes the edge to "stall" and because you have a machine with a 4.5amp motor trying to power a 8mm stroke or orbit and the laws of physics simple will not allow it to "work" as you think it does at the edge. Add to this that a backing plate becomes more flexible/bendable with age because of all the heat cycles it goes through AND that the velcro hooks loose there "grabbiness" over time from continuous pad removal are more factors that are working against you with the PC-DA.
One way to avoid this is to use a smaller backing plate and pad. I use a 4" plate and pads with my very-old PC-DA. This creates an obvious problem: you don`t cover much area with a smaller pad and it will take longer to do an entire vehicle. It is VERY difficult to not want to put a lot of pressure on the plate and pad rather than let the machine orbital motion, pad type, and abrasive do the "work" for you. There is also the tendency to move the machine head (plate and pad) much too fast over an area that is being corrected or polished. Then you also have the "problem" of using too much pressure and overworking the pad because of the excessive heat AND/OR drying out the abrasive and it starts to dust (A much-maligned problem with early versions of Megs M105 compound).
So while correcting or polishing may appear not to be "rocket science", there is still a proper technique to it, and much like the game of golf, to get good at it you will need experience and repetition. A lot of it is,indeed, trial-and-error, especially if you are a do-it-yourselfer learning on your own.
One thing you will learn (and already have learned), what works great on one vehicles` paint may not on another. EVERY paint is different. That is why good detailers will do a test spot with different pad types (foam densities/hardness, cell opening, thicknesses, and face patterns) and different manufacturer`s abrasives until the "magic sweet spot" for correction or polishing is found. It`s obvious that for a hobbyist or do-it-yourself detailer that this is a very expensive proposition and expense few can afford.
In my very own Captain Obvious (my nickname) hypocrisy, I tend to take a self-taught one-pad, abrasive manufacturer, and technique/methodology (IE; one-size-fits-all) approach to using my old PC-DA, but the results speak for themselves; I get the SAME results you are experiencing. They are not great, but they are "better" than before and sometimes you just need to accept that with a PC-DA, the pad, and abrasive you have and are using, this is as good as it gets. Can it be better? Yes, but that will take some experience by-trial and-error, and an investment in different pads and abrasives. No, as stated, it`s not rocket science, but if it were easy, EVERYONE could do it.

I have "upgraded" my abrasives from Meg`s M105 and M205 (long considered detailing favorites in this forum) to the Griot`s Garage BOSS (Best-Of-Show-System) Fast Correcting Cream, Correcting Cream, and Perfecting Polish. They work very well and if you want to try them out, go visit AutoZone and see if they are in stock for purchase. No, they are not "inexpensive" (AKA, cheap) but they are better than the Megs consumer line of Ultimate Compound and Ultimate Polish twins.
Another suggestion is to look into Megs Mirror Glaze Professional M110 Ultra Pro Speed Compound and M210 Ultra Pro Finishing Polish at an auto body supply store. Both are updated versions of M105 and M205. Most places, however, stock them in 32-ounce (quart) sizes, so again, they will be expensive.

Lastly, start saving up for a new polishing machine. If you are on the fence and just do not know what to get without spending a lot of money, Harbor Freights (Yes, that inexpensive(cheap) tool and machine place) has introduced a new forced-drive polisher, the Hercules HC109B Polisher. For more information, please reference this thread:https://www.autopia.org/forums/deta...09b-forced-rotation-polisher.html#post2194140
 
Porter Cable dual action polishers were introduced to the automotive industry in late 1989 by Mequiar.s at DAS in Long Beach. They purchased one for each of the dealers introducing a new high end brand, along with 3M pads and Mequiar`s polishing products. Until then, other than rotary buffers, the main polishers were orbitals with cotton bonnets, such as Buff-Masters, GEM etc. At this time 3M has just introduced and patented their foam waffle pads. Within 5 years dual action units had obtained huge volume in the industry.

 
I am a beginner/home detailer with a Porter Cable DA...

I would absolutely invest in a more potent polisher. IME (which is on the extensive side ;) ), the PC is not time-efficient. Not at all. Well, *maybe* with 4" MF cutting disks. Maybe.

I started with Meguiar`s Ultimate compound with an orange bad but was not getting good results. I then tried a yellow pad and got better results but I still feel like there are more swirls being left behind than I`d like.

No surprise to me.

It seems that UC is supposed to be pretty strong.
Nah, not IMO.

Can you recommend a product stronger than UC that I could use before UC that would then have whatever fine swirls it leaves behind cleaned up by UC? I like the Meguiar`s brand but am not wedded to it if there`s simply not something in the Meguair`s line that fits the bill.

I know the new M105 is reformulated to be ok w/ a DA but maybe that`s still not the best option for amateur me. I look here for suggestions. Thanks!

I myself like something even stronger than M105, but IMO that wouldn`t be a bad upgrade over the UC. FWIW, I use M101.

[INSERT usual caveats about overthinning the clear and sugestions regarding just aiming for "better" instead of "perfect" ;) ]

Following up with the UC, and then a Finishing Polish, should work OK with M105/M101. I can never get a ready-to-wax finish with any compound, but that`s just me and I`m awfully particular.
 
The Porter Cable tool was developed marketed and used for wood working, other firms had similar machines, just that Porter Cable was first to obtain use by a major vehicle care product company. One of the best of others I discovered was by Bosch, far superior, however few are aware of such. I have the PC, HF, Makita and a Bosch, for years, still find the Bosch top product.
 
Ron K.: What exact Bosch Model No. of their Dual-Action polishing machine do you have and what makes that machine superior/better than the others you have in you opinion??
(Inquiring detailing minds want to know...)
 
It`s in the shop, but my medical issue keeps me from going out to it so after 20+ years, don`t recall part #. Has velcro backing plate, 6 inch, is an upright model, never over heated, very smooth operation. As with most units of it`s age was marketed as a sanding tool.
 
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