Porter Cable XP Sanding & Kevin Brown Method

Came out great, as it should.



If you're working with electronics around water like this, or using a rotary and a pad washing system just be sure to use a GFCI outlet or GFCI plug-in outlet and you should be fine as far as electrocution goes.
 
Kevin Brown said:
ballpoint-backing-plate-shot.jpg
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I don't know why, but this pic made me laugh.



Very good idea, Kevin, and an interesting result.



I think I might buy a whole junkyard car and practice the KBM. Would be really interested to see meter readings for how much material is removed.
 
Very nice David.



David Fermani said:
I’ve heard some people warn of electrocution using water with an electric DA, some say that the PC’s throw is too long.
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Just to comment on this, I've been one that has warned people against using an electrical tool with water for years because it does make common sense and also because when you're in a position where you represent a company's products it's not a good idea to make your own personal recommendation but to follow the directions of the company. I'm hoping most of you would agree with that whether you work in the detailing industry or some other field.



Of course, it's always a good idea to make your peace with God before using any power tool. :D





With the above all said, about 2-3 years ago Richard Lin and I used PC's to do a completely machine sand a 1951 Desoto and it came out perfectly fine. The paint buffed easy and it was easy to get our sanding marks out. One thing for sure, I'll take machine sanding with electric or air powered tools any day over sanding by hand, especially for the larger, flat panels.



In this case we used the Mirka Abralon system and the really cool thing about the Abralon sanding discs is they are all foam backed which means you can fold them over like a taco and hand sand with them and you have a built-in backing pad. This works really well for curves and such.



I'm not sure if we took pictures of any of the sanding steps buy I've turned Picasa on to search an old hard drive to see but from memory I don't think I have any pictures of the sanding process; Richard might though.



Regardless, this car was completely sanded down using 2 PC's with using the Abralon discs and then compounded and polished using the Solo System. This car by the way is similar to the car used by Mr. C on the show "Happy Days" with Ron Howard.



1951Desoto001.jpg




And keep in mind that this is a custom paint job and the car has more clear paint on it than a factory finish and it was much easier to sand and buff than a factory baked-on finish.



The flannel bed sheet was taped down on the roof as it was sanded, cut and polished first and the flannel sheet was used to keep dust and splatter off the paint until the rest of the work was completed.





Kevin Brown said:
I reckon you would agree that the key to success on this job was THOROUGH final sanding.
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I would strongly agree with that statement. It's always faster to invest more time up front in the sanding step and finish out at the highest grit possible as this will make the buffing procedure faster and easier.



I'll post an article I just finished on removing orange peel and sanding marks using a PC style polisher to the Autogeek sponsored forum today but here's a paragraph from it that ties into the above.





Generally speaking, spending more time upfront in the sanding step where you continually refine your sanding marks to be more and more shallow equals less and less work buffing out the sanding marks. And keep this in mind, wet-sanding is cool , machine compounding is warm and in most cases hot especially if you're using a rotary buffer with a wool pad and a compound. I add this tidbit because clear coat paints don't tend to like hot temperatures. Warm is okay but hot is not.
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If anyone reading does decide to duplicate David's success, do use care and caution.



:xyxthumbs
 
Mike Phillips said:
..we used the Mirka Abralon system and the really cool thing about the Abralon sanding discs is they are all foam backed which means you can fold them over like a taco and hand sand with them and you have a built-in backing pad. This works really well for curves and such.
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+1 on the Mirka, they're nice. And the 4K grit ones are nice and mild/safe.
 
**Frank** said:
I guess not



YouTube - 3M Perfect-It 3000 Trizact Spot Panel Repair Howto



according to the narrator in the video no meant for leveling orange peel
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1st off, that video was outdated. It was prior to 3M's 1500 Trizact release. If you notice at the 3:40 mark, they did mention it's not recommeded for orange peel removal. By that they were referring to their 3000 grit paper. They say this because it's too fine(and would take too long) and that 1500 is a better choice for this.



If you also look, this spot repair system (finishing with 3000 Trizact btw) only requires the use of a foam pad without a compound. That in itself shows how mild the 3000 Trizact grit scratches are and what is really required to remove them. Many people insist that the best tool to remove sanding scratches is a wool pad and compound, but I totally disagree.
 
David Fermani- Seems to me that a spot-repair system ought not be removing orangepeel anyhow, lest it make for an uneven finish.



And yeah, I've done 90-some% of my (limited) sanding scratch removal with foam.
 
Back in another life, I was training to be a machinist. One thing we had to do was take a block of steel, file the flat side (4 x6 inch) then rub it on a lap table - metal table with groves cut in it and covered in a thick goo like abrasive. One guy spent a lot of time on the filing step, we thought he was crazy but after hours on that damn lap table trying to get it smooth, we realized he had the plan and we were the fools. My point, sometimes you have to take an agressive step and thoroughly level the surface, it makes the final polishing much easier. Of course it's easier to just bribe the second year students to use the Bridgeport milling machine - but that's another story!



Good job David, looks like you got a plan.
 
Great job David!! The 3M 1500 Trizact clear coat sanding discs are wicked!! One of the coolest things I have used. Both in looks and performance. A 3M rep gave me a couple of boxes of both 1500 and 3000 foam discs. A total score since those things are expensive. He also gave me some backing plates and pads to try. I have to say I hate the hook it crap because I can't stand the 3M buffing pads. But those sanding discs level quick and work great with the PC XP.



I still reach for the RO, but if I could level in one pass on half the hood like you did I might rethink the whole damn process. Again, great job.



One more thing, did you tell the owner if wants to put his briefcase on the trunklid, he might want to buy a white car.
 
Accumulator said:
David Fermani- Seems to me that a spot-repair system ought not be removing orangepeel anyhow, lest it make for an uneven finish.



And yeah, I've done 90-some% of my (limited) sanding scratch removal with foam.
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You're right Accumulator. Orange peel is usually pretty uniform on a surface and requires complete/uniform leveling. 3M's system is really designed for blemishes like runs and dust.



I actually know of quite a few shops that only use foam for thier buffing. Seems as if they've figured out the right combination for the clear they use.



JuneBug said:
Back in another life, I was training to be a machinist. One thing we had to do was take a block of steel, file the flat side (4 x6 inch) then rub it on a lap table - metal table with groves cut in it and covered in a thick goo like abrasive. One guy spent a lot of time on the filing step, we thought he was crazy but after hours on that damn lap table trying to get it smooth, we realized he had the plan and we were the fools. My point, sometimes you have to take an agressive step and thoroughly level the surface, it makes the final polishing much easier. Of course it's easier to just bribe the second year students to use the Bridgeport milling machine - but that's another story!



Good job David, looks like you got a plan.
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Thanks Jimmy. Nothing like a shop having a perfectly flat bench to guage flatness. Nice of you to share something about your past life with us. :happy:



fergnation said:
Great job David!! The 3M 1500 Trizact clear coat sanding discs are wicked!! One of the coolest things I have used. Both in looks and performance. A 3M rep gave me a couple of boxes of both 1500 and 3000 foam discs. A total score since those things are expensive. He also gave me some backing plates and pads to try. I have to say I hate the hook it crap because I can't stand the 3M buffing pads. But those sanding discs level quick and work great with the PC XP.



I still reach for the RO, but if I could level in one pass on half the hood like you did I might rethink the whole damn process. Again, great job.



One more thing, did you tell the owner if wants to put his briefcase on the trunklid, he might want to buy a white car.
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Thanks so much for the great compliment. Much appreciated and good to know you've been utilizing your PC for more than just buffing. You really scored with those samples your Rep gave you. I could only wish I could swindle that out of mine. Still waiting for my cabinets! Oh, and yes, the owner was read the riot act about touching his paint. He's actually turned over an OCD leaf and calls me for advise all the time.
 
David Fermani said:
Is anyone else using an electric DA to sand paint?
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:wavey



micro-surface has some nice thick backing plates for the PC. I really like the 4k papers as well. Cleans up really well with DA/foam.
 
WOW



How do you get that kind of leveling with 105 and an LC orange? I used the CCS orange and 105 on regular paint with my G110 and barely removed all the swirls, let alone every defect (multiple passes, too). I'm guessing I don't have the KBM technique down?



DAMN!
 
HLxDrummer said:
..How do you get that kind of leveling with 105 and an LC orange? I used the CCS orange and 105 on regular paint with my G110 and barely removed all the swirls, let alone every defect (multiple passes, too). I'm guessing I don't have the KBM technique down?
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FWIW I have to use 3-4" pads to get that kind of correction when using my old-style PCs, which I figure are pretty similar to your G110. I can do really impressive correction with the KBM and larger pads when I use my GG6 polisher (or the Flex 3401) but those machines are very different from "lesser" polishers.



I also do a lot better with MF cutting disks and Meguiar's maroon foam cutting pads (both the older style and the new ones) as compared with Orange cutting pads.
 
HLxDrummer said:
WOW



How do you get that kind of leveling with 105 and an LC orange? I used the CCS orange and 105 on regular paint with my G110 and barely removed all the swirls, let alone every defect (multiple passes, too). I'm guessing I don't have the KBM technique down?



DAMN!
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You want a flat orange pad, not CCS.
 
HLxDrummer said:
WOW



How do you get that kind of leveling with 105 and an LC orange? I used the CCS orange and 105 on regular paint with my G110 and barely removed all the swirls, let alone every defect (multiple passes, too). I'm guessing I don't have the KBM technique down?



DAMN!
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To be perfectly honest, CCS pads just plain suck IMHO.
 
Bummer... I have 5" flat yellow coming from 3D... would it be worth replacing my CCS pads with flat LCs? MFs?



Trying to keep it budget concise as well which sucks
 
C. Charles Hahn said:
To be perfectly honest, CCS pads just plain suck IMHO.
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OK, refresh my memory....are the CCS pads the "dimpled" ones or the ones with odd angles? Sheesh, I oughta know that but I hardly ever buy pads :nixweiss
 
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