PolyCharger...

Really sounds like snake oil to me. I really cannot help but to wonder what the position the manufacturers of waxes/sealants take with regard to consumers altering the formulation of products.

Who makes this stuff??

AND, at $40.00 a pop I can only guess what how the postings would read if a certain Company-very recently discussed on this forum-was maketing this additive.
 
Tom said:
Really sounds like snake oil to me.
Click to expand...

I agree and agreed until I tried it. It works as evidenced by many reviews of the product because it helps most sealants bond better.

I really cannot help but to wonder what the position the manufacturers of waxes/sealants take with regard to consumers altering the formulation of products.
Click to expand...

As the manufacturer of Menzerna Car Care, Gel-Coat Labs, and Blackfire, we recommend adding Polycharger.:w00t:


Who makes this stuff??
Click to expand...

Define make? Who makes the chemicals or who blends the chemicals together? With Polycharger we do neither.

AND, at $40.00 a pop I can only guess what how the postings would read if a certain Company-very recently discussed on this forum-was maketing this additive.
Click to expand...

I'm not good with double speak. Why don't you just say the company and then I can understand your post. I really don't care who uses what with whom, why, and when, but I do care if something works. And if something works then I try like hell to get Jack to carry it.:wink:

So if somebody else makes a product, I try it, and it works well, then it wouldn't affect my postings. I don't even know if I responsed to this statement correctly because I didn't quite understand it. :Innocent:

 
th0001 said:
I'm not good with double speak. Why don't you just say the company and then I can understand your post. I really don't care who uses what with whom, why, and when, but I do care if something works. And if something works then I try like hell to get Jack to carry it.:wink:
Click to expand...

I assumed he meant Adams since they were recently beat up a little in a thread about their products.
 
I wish to be certain that I understand, th0001; you are categorically stating that YOU are the manufacturer of the products you mention AND that these Companies sanction the use of this product?

I emailed two large makers of waxes yesterday and asked about the practice of using such chemicals in their products, one has already responded in the negative, as I expected.

What is amazing to me is that any -professional- detailer would alter any product in this manner and use the concoction on someones vehicle to me it is :out:
 
[Who makes this stuff??]


Premium Finish Care- Polycharger ? Wax Booster ?-

Using an additive to enhance polymers ability (Polymerization or cross-linking, mechanical strength and etc) is not uncommon within the chemical industry.

I?ll let others answer the other aspects raised as I?m a Chemical Engineer not a professional detailer
 
Tom said:
I wish to be certain that I understand, th0001; you are categorically stating that YOU are the manufacturer of the products you mention AND that these Companies sanction the use of this product?

I emailed two large makers of waxes yesterday and asked about the practice of using such chemicals in their products, one has already responded in the negative, as I expected.

What is amazing to me is that any -professional- detailer would alter any product in this manner and use the concoction on someones vehicle to me it is :out:
Click to expand...

No what I am stating is that I work for company that is a manufacturer and that we do not manufacturer polycharger and that we recommend using it in our products. Is that clear? In fact we include polycharger in some of our products.

I don't want to use facts to confuse you, but if you look on any of the forums out there you will see that Blackfire (with Polycharger) has gotten RAVE reviews. It is used by more of the top detailers in the country (according to Autoweek) then any other sealant out there. Obviously we didn't put the chemicals in there to hurt performance or pay royalties... We used it because it allowed us to product a better performing product, period.

As far as your emails, you obviously didn't email us.

If you are amazed that 'any professional' detailer would alter any product in a line, I think that only qualifes that you are not a professional detailer. You would probably shake your head when I add mineral oil to a polish, mike polishes together, use pads in ways they are not recommended, etc.

What I amazed by is that some people will argue a point with zero knowledge of what they are arguing only to argue.

If you don't want to use Polycharger, fine. If you do, you will likely be pleased by the results. If it violates some personal ethic code that you feel you have to alter chemicals for better performance, then I am personally okay with that as well. :thumbup:
 
TOGWT said:
[Who makes this stuff??]


Premium Finish Care- Polycharger ? Wax Booster ?-

Using an additive to enhance polymers ability (Polymerization or cross-linking, mechanical strength and etc) is not uncommon within the chemical industry.

I?ll let others answer the other aspects raised as I?m a Chemical Engineer not a professional detailer
Click to expand...



I have to say it's Four Star out of Bradenton, FL WHO BE MAKING THAT POLY STUFF!! Me,could be wrong ....
 
Chubby Davis said:
I have to say it's Four Star out of Bradenton, FL WHO BE MAKING THAT POLY STUFF!! Me,could be wrong ....
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I think you are correct. It says (or atleast it used to say) right on the side of the box the bottle of PolyCharger comes in who the manufacturer is. I believe Four Star (or a company related to Four Star) is like Warner Chemicals in that if you want a product made but don't have the equipment to make it, they will work with you to make the product for you.l
 
th0001; since you decided to make this personal, and since this is my last
post, I will continue with the urinating contest.

You implied that you manufacture the products you mentioned, my bottles of
Mez state that they are from the FatherLand, so unless there is a
hamlet/village/city/town called Florida in Germany -you- do not make Mez, or
is this another example of someone typing who knows nothing??

YOU can recommend anything you wish, after all it is putting money in your
pocket, BUT specifically can you say that Meguiars, Klasse, Mez or any
Company THEMSELVES sanction the use of PolyCharger? and post the link to the
information where they say, 'the use of PolyCharger is recommended by
XXXXXXXX'

You are correct, I am NOT a pro detailer, just a diy'er who knows that
adding crap to a product I am using, knowing that this additive is not
specifically approved by the maker of the product which I am using, is pure
stupidity.

Hope you are still with me :biggrin:

And, as I mentioned, any 'pro' that does something like this on someone
elses car is no PRO.

:StarWars:

Its been fun, but ' Truth in Detailing', no way.
Click to expand...

th0001; since you decided to make this personal, and since this is my last
post, I will continue with the urinating contest.
Click to expand...

Tom, to be honest, that is the furthest from what my intentions (re: urinating contest). I have seen too many on too many forums (and have been apart of them on frequent occasion). I apologize if you took my response to your post as such. I didn't want to make it personal.

When you make strong PERSONAL statements, any response to them will be some level of personal statements. This is because we take ownership of our opinions. I feel that is the line you took by stating such, but in no way-shape-forum did I try to offend you.

I do disagree with your statements; we do not share similar opinions. This is an educational website, so allow me to provide some information and my viewpoints, with the understanding this will not change your feelings, but rather as a possible benefit to the community.

You implied that you manufacture the products you mentioned, my bottles of
Mez state that they are from the FatherLand, so unless there is a
hamlet/village/city/town called Florida in Germany -you- do not make Mez, or
is this another example of someone typing who knows nothing??
Click to expand...

To my knowledge there is no city in Germany named Florida (I believe Florida is actually a Spanish name, derived from Latin, which is less sharp then the Germanic families).

Menzerna was lauched in the USA to the consumer market by Proper Auto Care in 2002. It is quite an undertaking to introduce a completely new product name (and line) to the market. As we negoitated with Menzerna of Germany, we asked for a complete car care line, including a wax/soap/ etc to help build the name in the market.

While Menzerna of Germany agreed, they also stated they didn't have the experience that CMA did in developing these types of products. They made abrasive polishes and knew nothing of the design of these products. Thus we licensed the trademark for Menzerna in the US, and with permission developed some of our proudest products.

CMA has a long history in the development of products, you might be surprised to find out which products we developed and brought to market which are now common place in the industry today.

The interesting aspect is that products like Menzerna FMJ received praise at a much greater rates then did the polishes. It was our Menzerna line that helped the Menzerna polishes gain a foothold in the US market. As of this day we still are the manufacturers of Menzerna's car care line in the United States (which does not included their polishes), and after selling them many years before anybody else and establishing the line in the US, we are proud of the companies success.

As an employee of the manufacturer of Menzerna FMJ and Menzerna Acrylic Jacket, I have zero problem recommending Polycharger in these sealants.

YOU can recommend anything you wish, after all it is putting money in your
pocket, BUT specifically can you say that Meguiars, Klasse, Mez or any
Company THEMSELVES sanction the use of PolyCharger? and post the link to the
information where they say, 'the use of PolyCharger is recommended by
XXXXXXXX'
Click to expand...

Honestly I am not putting any money in my pocket in regards to Polycharger. Heck I have recommended against products we sell, on this forum. My job (and Jack would have it NO other way) is to use my experience and knowledge to make recommendations on products and techniques. That is what puts money in my pocket, not the reverse.

Regarding Meguiar's or Klasse I do not believe they recommend Polycharger nor have I suggested that anybody directly use it. I know of several threads on various forums where people have used Polycharger on Meg's 21 with reported favoriable results.

You are correct, I am NOT a pro detailer, just a diy'er who knows that
adding crap to a product I am using, knowing that this additive is not
specifically approved by the maker of the product which I am using, is pure
stupidity.
Click to expand...

In this thread you are amazed at the results you received by accidentally mixing two products together. If you get better results, would you still consider this stupid? I know that Menzerna and Klasse do not recommend this or that I could not find a recommendation on this listing.

Also, some food for thought, Meguiar's doesn't recommend their polishes with Lake Country pads, and Lake Country doesn't recommend using their pads with Menzerna polishes (they don't recommend against it however).

Mixing and matching takes place and (IMO) is part of what makes detailing an art forum. Like a painter who uses their favorite palette, we have a plethora of products that we have can use no matter how we choose.

At some point we have to be able to define the question, "When is it okay to step over a manufacturer's recommendations?" If the answer is never then you certainly we would all be locked in to one product line.

If your personal answer is ,"when I have to mix various LSPs" then you are entitled to your opinion. I know of some professional detailers who mix waxes together. I wouldn't do it myself, but it is all opinion anyways.

Just like you got better results mixing Menzerna with Klasse. I don't think you are stupid for doing so.

And, as I mentioned, any 'pro' that does something like this on someone
elses car is no PRO.

:StarWars:

Its been fun, but ' Truth in Detailing', no way
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You are certainly entitled to your opinion regarding your definition of the word pro. Neither my business, my reputation, nor my clients are offended.

I believe that we strive hard to tell the truth but I am sorry that we cannot make everybody happy. We will continue to tell the truth and try to keep this a drama free and educational forum devoid of drama. You are welcome to stay, but it does sound like this forum isn't what you are looking for. Best of luck,

Todd
 
I really hate to see the tone of this thread on TID, and certainly do not wish to engage in any kind of argument. I'd just like to relate a couple of observations.

Jack has personally spent a solid half hour answering my questions about PolyCharger in the past. I cannot begin to restate the compelling evidence of the legitimacy and effectiveness of PolyCharger as presented by Jack. I do, however, believe that I can recognize a sincere and intelligent professional who has spent his life in this business and has probably forgotten more about car care products than I will ever know.

I'm convinced, if not by Jack, then by the simple fact that the stuff works.

I am not particularly concerned about who believes in PolyCharger or not. But I do find the implication that the staff at CMA are not professionals to be ridiculous to the point of being offensive.

If you can count Angelo as a friend, you are very fortunate indeed. He also happens to be a first-class detailer. Todd taught me how to use a rotary. I'm talking about ten straight hours during which he did not want to stop for lunch. (Actually, the boy is a freak!) Michael, the IT guru, spent a lunch hour showing me how to refurbish a neglected dashboard.

Not professionals? Get real!

Believe me, guys, I'm not drinking the CMA kool-aid. They sold me some stuff called PetCar Plastic Renew. It is unequivocally the worst crap that I have ever put on a car.

But Menzerna, Blackfire, P21S, Eimann Fabrik, Leatherique... all top-drawer stuff. Some of it even contains PolyCharger!

Peace,
 
Thanks John Henry, I appreciate your kind words. What the heck is "PetCar Plastic Renew"????? That must have been between my first and current "Tours of Duty".

jk
 
Just to add my .02 to this discussion. I should first say that I personally have not used PC except what is already in BFWD and BF spray sealant. I have researched this quite a bit and decided I didn't need it. First, PC seems to be effective with some sealants and relatively inert in others. Benefits if they exist are tighter, longer beading, greater slickness, and easier residue removal. I've seen tests with FMJ and Z-CS (I think that was the one, maybe OS) and it made a definite difference in the tightness of the beads and the durability. On the other hand, the same person tested it with Werkstat AJT and saw no improvement. I have heard some people say that PC makes Klasse residues easier to remove. It seems like the polyethylene/acrylics don't have the same benefits as some others. I asked Jeff Brandt (Werkstat) if he recommended it and he didn't have much positive to say about it. He didn't say it was snake oil or anything, but he didn't recommend it either. Anyway, right now my two go-to sealants are AJT and BFWD. It's already established AJT doesn't benefit from it and BFWD already has it. I guess its not for me. On the other hand if I used FMJ, I'd spring for some CH2 PC based on the results I've seen. Hope this helps.

Billy
 
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