Polishing Opti-Coat 2.0

M

MiLKMD

New member
Questions for Opti-Coat users. I know Chris from OPT has said that OC needs to be completely removed before another coat can be applied as OC does not bond to itself. I seem to recall reading someone else who had "re-freshed" his coat with a light polish and then layering OC.



My questions:

How resilient is OC? More specifically, how aggressive a polish and pad is required to remove OC i.e. compound with wool vs aggressive polish such as Menzerna SIP with white pads? I understand that there are many variables involved (thickness of OC, rotary vs orbital, hand pressure, etc.) but I am trying to get a general feel for what is necessary to either start over or maintain.



If there are very, very faint swirls, how does OC stand up to repeated finishing polishes e.g., Menzerna PO85rd on LCC black pads.



How do you all assess for OC breakthrough/decay or satisfactory removal? Beading? Lights? I have been following OC durability threads with interest. Perhaps I may have missed one but I have yet to see anyone mention OC failure over time. Has anyone had degradation of OC to the point where she needed to remove a previous coat and needed to re-apply? I think some have mentioned needing to polish off high spots soon after an application but I believe those instances were not fully cured.



Gratuitous detail shots:













 
I have a similar question regarding how to tell its still there (or rather, was even there to begin with)



I recently had it applied to my G sedan, but am not 100% sure about the job.



Chris from Optimums advice was a "hard wash".....Dawn, PrepSol, Optimum PowerClean at 3:1, etc. Hard wash the car with your choice of chemicals, rinse them all off (lots of water) and then check for water beading/sheeting. With correctly bonded Opti you should be able to tell its there.



I would imagine the same would go for after polishing......if the water doesnt bead/sheet very well, you'll know its gone. I noticed that a I can tell a difference in certain spots of certain panels, which is why Im not sure its 100% there.....if you spray a short burst of water at a panel the water doesnt even stick, it just beads up and rolls off immediately (if its a vertical panel). In a spot without it, or where it didnt bond, the water kind of just sheets up and stays, eventually rolling off from gravity. You can check YouTube for some beading/sheeting vids.



Chris also mentioned polishing with Megs 205 then hard washing a panel and reapplying Opti should work for refreshing/filling in spots that were missed.
 
Dr. G has told me several times that all you need to prep an Opti-Coated surface is a mild abrasive polish like 85rd or OP. You will drive yourself crazy trying to fingure out if the coating is removed otherwise. There's probably no way to safely confirm the complete removal of OC. Also keep in mind that when using hard chemicals on OC, even though you might think OC is removed from the lack of beading, it may just be the reminants of the chemical on the surface preventing beading.



I'd had people use heavy water spot removers that temerarily killed beading just to find out the chemical wasn't flushed/rinsed/removed from the surface. As soon as they recleaned it, beading continued.
 
David Fermani said:
Dr. G has told me several times that all you need to prep an Opti-Coated surface is a mild abrasive polish like 85rd or OP. You will drive yourself crazy trying to fingure out if the coating is removed otherwise. There's probably no way to safely confirm the complete removal of OC. Also keep in mind that when using hard chemicals on OC, even though you might think OC is removed from the lack of beading, it may just be the reminants of the chemical on the surface preventing beading.



I'd had people use heavy water spot removers that temerarily killed beading just to find out the chemical wasn't flushed/rinsed/removed from the surface. As soon as they recleaned it, beading continued.
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Good to know.



In my case, I watched the application, and it looked OK/correct to me. But after all was said and done the paint had a "smooth" almost LSP-like feel to it, which is NOT what should happen with correctly applied OptiCoat.



The paint now has the expected slightly-grabby feel to it, but now Im not sure if thats because of the Opti or if its now just bare paint. The car does look good though, so it very well may be OK.
 
I wonder if a polish and a hard wash using Valugard ABC might do more in removing the Opti-Coat? Probably not much? :nixweiss
 
Bill D said:
I wonder if a polish and a hard wash using Valugard ABC might do more in removing the Opti-Coat? Probably not much? :nixweiss
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I posted about my issue on a different forum and Chris from Optimum said to figure out what panel(s) looked like they needed recoating, then "rough up" the surface with megs 205 (I didnt ask about what pad to use, but Im going to go with the cutting pad from the Megs microfiber kit), then use PowerClean to make sure I kill all beading (i.e. get rid of all the oils from the 205) THEN recoat the whole panel with Opti.



Im guessing the same process would apply to redoing the whole car. As for completely removing it you might need to get much more rough....not necessarily Megs 105, but maybe ultimate compound?
 
chris01i30 said:
In my case, I watched the application, and it looked OK/correct to me. But after all was said and done the paint had a "smooth" almost LSP-like feel to it, which is NOT what should happen with correctly applied OptiCoat.



The paint now has the expected slightly-grabby feel to it, but now Im not sure if thats because of the Opti or if its now just bare paint. The car does look good though, so it very well may be OK.
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OC is definately grabby and not slick. Almost immediately after applying too. Bare paint (depending on how it was made bare) should have a totally different feel.
 
Yep, you can see why I worry :(



On the other hand, I cant see it not bonding correctly to the WHOLE car, and the WHOLE car now has the same grabby type feeling.
 
chris01i30 said:
Yep, you can see why I worry :(



On the other hand, I cant see it not bonding correctly to the WHOLE car, and the WHOLE car now has the same grabby type feeling.
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I'd say as long as it's grabby and beading water you're good, but I'd ultimately get Dr. G's opinion.



Barry Theal said:
Why not strip it with laquer and reapply?
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Barry - this stuff is like paint, so whatever you'd use to remove paint (stripper) should remove the coating, but most likely the finish too! I doubt LT will touch it.
 
Seriously? I need to call Dr G. tomarrow and get my hands on some. What about gasolene? Yea yea yea I know gasolene on paint? Yuppers it was a great tar remover in the day!!!!
 
Yeah Im using Chris as the source of info (I figure he would refer to Dr G if he didnt feel comfortable).



Beading can be generated from polishing oils, I was just worried that might be what is causing the beading for now and eventually Id have zero protection left on the paint. With the seemingly fragile paint on my car its not something I want to mess with.
 
Sounds to me like Optimum should look into developing a specific product just for removal of/prep for Opti-Coat and incorporate it into the paint protection application system.
 
Barry Theal said:
Seriously? I need to call Dr G. tomarrow and get my hands on some. What about gasolene? Yea yea yea I know gasolene on paint? Yuppers it was a great tar remover in the day!!!!
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I spill gas down the side of my car all the time when I pull the nozzle out (in a hurry) and it's still beading like crazy. Gas is a great tar remover, but deadly in the dryer!!





chris01i30 said:
Beading can be generated from polishing oils, I was just worried that might be what is causing the beading for now and eventually Id have zero protection left on the paint. With the seemingly fragile paint on my car its not something I want to mess with.
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Yeah, wipe it down with OPC, wash with Dawn and see what happens. Polishing oils won't have a chance after that.
 
Bill D said:
Sounds to me like Optimum should look into developing a specific product just for removal of/prep for Opti-Coat and incorporate it into the paint protection application system.
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Ya figure if anyone could it would be him! Life could be alot easier for a bunch of people.
 
David Fermani said:
Dr. G has told me several times that all you need to prep an Opti-Coated surface is a mild abrasive polish like 85rd or OP. You will drive yourself crazy trying to fingure out if the coating is removed otherwise. There's probably no way to safely confirm the complete removal of OC. Also keep in mind that when using hard chemicals on OC, even though you might think OC is removed from the lack of beading, it may just be the reminants of the chemical on the surface preventing beading.
Click to expand...

chris01i30 said:
Chris also mentioned polishing with Megs 205 then hard washing a panel and reapplying Opti should work for refreshing/filling in spots that were missed.
Click to expand...



The above accords with what I understand. As of now the behavior of beading is the same on all panels so I am going to assume even coverage all around. Once I start to notice a change in beading then at that point I'll prep the surface with a light polish and reapply. This approach seems much better than having to try to completely remove all the OC and trying to verify one is back down to bare paint. As the underlying correction is already to my satisfaction I'd rather not have to remove more clear than necessary if at all.



I am also interested in seeing your long term durability assessments. You guys have a few years head start on me.



David Fermani said:
I'd had people use heavy water spot removers that temerarily killed beading just to find out the chemical wasn't flushed/rinsed/removed from the surface. As soon as they recleaned it, beading continued.
Click to expand...

chris01i30 said:
Beading can be generated from polishing oils, I was just worried that might be what is causing the beading for now and eventually Id have zero protection left on the paint. With the seemingly fragile paint on my car its not something I want to mess with.
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This behavior is very interesting. I once tried to layer P21S wax over OC to see if I could change the look. It rained one week after application and I had severe water spots and dust trapping. I did a very quick wash with ONR. The wax washed of easily with no pressure or heavy chemicals, and the original OC beading returned. This sequence has occurred with other LSPs as well.



Tentative conclusions:

1. The look can indeed be changed with an LSP over OC.

2. The surface behavior takes on the quality of the top coat. One does indeed lose the hydrophobic properties of OC if using anything else other than very good LSPs. Comparatively of the sealants I've tried

only BFWD or Zaino has the same repellant behavior while improving the look.

3. The LSP does indeed not bond to OC and washes off easily. There is no durability when applied over OC.



The above is nothing new to you guys and nothing that Chris hasn't said previously. I was just verifying with my own assessments.
 
Barry Theal said:
Seriously? I need to call Dr G. tomarrow and get my hands on some. What about gasolene? Yea yea yea I know gasolene on paint? Yuppers it was a great tar remover in the day!!!!
Click to expand...



I think Corey (CEEDOG) tried all of that in his OC/CQuartz review (which is posted on AGO and I think TID as well) so you might refer to that....
 
I went out last night and started pouring water out of a bottle onto the surface of my car, obviously a better test for sheeting than beading.



In one of the spots where I dont think Opti bonded, the water just kind of stuck....its even a vertical panel, but the water pooled into a small area and just sat there. I suppose its possible there is still some PowerClean left on that area from where I tried the experiment, but considering I washed the car AFTER the experiment, I would think there wouldnt be.



In an area where Im pretty confident the Opti DID bond, the water practically jumped off the car, and that was on a horizontal panel with very little slope (trunklid). As I was pouring it immediately pooled into an area and ran off the car. Could that be polishing oils causing that effect? I suppose its possible, but just from how fast it pooled and ran off I would tend not to think so.



Im still planning on applying PowerClean to each panel, then doing a Dawn wash (will probably do one side of the car at a time) and then re-testing beading/sheeting to determine where the problem areas are. It may come down to cleaning and OptiCoating one panel of the car at a time, which is kind of disheartening (after having a pro do it already....), but Im really eager to get OC on my paint to give me some protection from marring mostly.
 
I think you have the right idea. I can't tell if the sheeting/pooling action is because of residual oils. Classically oils would be hydrophobic and also bead but if other solvents are used they may have hydrophillic properties. Cleaning with Dawn would get you down to either clear coat or Opticoat, but ultimately it sounds as if you may have to re coat the panel, unfortunately. Perhaps your detailer would redo the coat?



I am curious:



How would the professionals reading this thread respond to a customer with such a concern?
 
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