Polishes AND abbrasivness

D

dank311

New member
Hey

I need someone to help me with a new combo for detailing my car. I pretty much have everything set except when it comes to polishes, cleaners, and glazes. My car is a black 2005 350Z with minor swirls and water spots. I am planning to use PC for buffing.

If Im understanding this correctly...After wash and clay, use an abbrasive polish, followed by a cleaner, glaze, then sealant/carnuba?

I have read on some post that some people use 2-3 different polishes, as well as a cleaner and glaze. Is all this really neccessary. I don't want to skimp out on buying products or anything like that...Im just trying to make sure Im not buying two products that are going to do the same thing, or counterproduct one or the other. AIO is a cleaner and acrylic sealant in one correct...If I used this, I would also need a abbrasive polish before it..correct? Also, I have read that the sealant in AIO isn't the best, so its best to use an extra sealant followed by a carnuba (like EX-P/Natty Blue).



Here are some of the polishes Im looking into:

Klasse AIO

Menzerna Intense polish

Menzerna Final Polish II

Poorboy SSR 2.5



Would I use Poorboys 2.5 first, and then the AIO...or If I went with Menzerna, I could just use IP followed by FPII..correct?

The more I read about different products and other peoples combos, it confuses me on what to get. By no means do I need the best, most expensive stuff. I just want to make things simple and cost effective. It seems the menzerna line and poorboys line are highly regarded on here, so I thought I would give them a try...



Here are the other products I have decided on for my combo:



Car Wash: Poorboys Slick N Suds w/ Eurow Sheepskin and Pakshak/Excel Monterey MF WW for drying



Clay Bar: Clay Magic



Polish: ? (prob PB or Menzerna)



Pre Wax Cleaner: ? (prob PB or Menzerna)



Glaze: Vanilla Moose, or Red Moose...Ive read they both work great seperately, but better when combined. Prob just get one if its not worth it...



Wax -

Polymer Sealant: EX-P

Carnauba: Natty Blue



Detail spray (for removing polish, use to prim pads/buffer, and in between waxing intervals)



Polishing pads - depends on the polishes correct?



Let me know if this is a good combo, as well as the correct order to apply. This is my first time doing a full detail on the car. I usually just clay and wax it. But I would like to remove swirls, and get a deeper, wetter look.
 
The polishes you use depends on so many things, most importantly...the condition of your paint. However, a two-step polish procedure will be more than sufficient, then you can glaze if you want, and then finish with a sealant. Since your obviously new, I'll keep it simple for you. Polish with Menzerna IP and then polish with AIO (AIO is a very light polish combined with glaze agents and a little bit of acrylic sealant). Apply a good sealant - try EX-P. Your done. That's it. Don't over complicate it.



Polishing pads - Get the Propel II pads from Exceldetail.com. Get two green pads (light cutting pads for Intensive Polish) and two blue pads (final polish pads for AIO).



Easy.
 
dank311 said:
Hey

I need someone to help me with a new combo for detailing my car. I pretty much have everything set except when it comes to polishes, cleaners, and glazes. My car is a black 2005 350Z with minor swirls and water spots. I am planning to use PC for buffing.

If Im understanding this correctly...After wash and clay, use an abbrasive polish, followed by a cleaner, glaze, then sealant/carnuba?

I have read on some post that some people use 2-3 different polishes, as well as a cleaner and glaze. Is all this really neccessary. I don't want to skimp out on buying products or anything like that...Im just trying to make sure Im not buying two products that are going to do the same thing, or counterproduct one or the other. AIO is a cleaner and acrylic sealant in one correct...If I used this, I would also need a abbrasive polish before it..correct? Also, I have read that the sealant in AIO isn't the best, so its best to use an extra sealant followed by a carnuba (like EX-P/Natty Blue).



Here are some of the polishes Im looking into:

Klasse AIO

Menzerna Intense polish

Menzerna Final Polish II

Poorboy SSR 2.5



Would I use Poorboys 2.5 first, and then the AIO...or If I went with Menzerna, I could just use IP followed by FPII..correct?

The more I read about different products and other peoples combos, it confuses me on what to get. By no means do I need the best, most expensive stuff. I just want to make things simple and cost effective. It seems the menzerna line and poorboys line are highly regarded on here, so I thought I would give them a try...



Here are the other products I have decided on for my combo:



Car Wash: Poorboys Slick N Suds w/ Eurow Sheepskin and Pakshak/Excel Monterey MF WW for drying



Clay Bar: Clay Magic



Polish: ? (prob PB or Menzerna)



Pre Wax Cleaner: ? (prob PB or Menzerna)



Glaze: Vanilla Moose, or Red Moose...Ive read they both work great seperately, but better when combined. Prob just get one if its not worth it...



Wax -

Polymer Sealant: EX-P

Carnauba: Natty Blue



Detail spray (for removing polish, use to prim pads/buffer, and in between waxing intervals)



Polishing pads - depends on the polishes correct?



Let me know if this is a good combo, as well as the correct order to apply. This is my first time doing a full detail on the car. I usually just clay and wax it. But I would like to remove swirls, and get a deeper, wetter look.
Click to expand...









Well I would say grab the Menzerna if you can. it really looks good on black and easy to work with. you can clay, IP, light polish ( FPII, 106FF, 85RD) depending on durability you are looking for with the LSP would determine EX-P or Natty's. how bad are the swirls ? if they are not too bad you may be able to use 106FF and a polishing pad and save yourself a step. it works well in removing minor swirls not to mention you should always start with the least agressive product first. just my two cents
 
RAG said:
The polishes you use depends on so many things, most importantly...the condition of your paint. However, a two-step polish procedure will be more than sufficient, then you can glaze if you want, and then finish with a sealant. Since your obviously new, I'll keep it simple for you. Polish with Menzerna IP and then polish with AIO (AIO is a very light polish combined with glaze agents and a little bit of acrylic sealant). Apply a good sealant - try EX-P. Your done. That's it. Don't over complicate it.



Polishing pads - Get the Propel II pads from Exceldetail.com. Get two green pads (light cutting pads for Intensive Polish) and two blue pads (final polish pads for AIO).



Easy.
Click to expand...



Hey man, Thanks for the help!

Is AIO as good as a pre-wax cleaner as Final Polish? If I used AIO after IP, would I still benefit from a seperate glaze, or would it be counterproductive?



Also, I have read a few people saying that I can get the best of both worlds by applying a carnauba over a polymer sealant...like EX-P then a coat of Souveran or Natty Blue. I have been told that if I do this I will get the depth of the carnauba, as well as the shine and protection of the sealants. Let me know if Im understnading this correctly..



So maybe a good combo would be...

Menzerna IP > AIO > Glaze > EX-P > Natty Blue



One last thing. Are Vanilla and Red Moose both Glazes? I have heard some people using them as polishes? Would one of these be good in between my AIO and EX-P.



Also, Should I use water or detail spray for priming for polishing pads? Also, I have heard that some use a detail spray for removal...is this neccessary? I don't want to use up all my products if its not absolutely neccessary.



Please let me know if I am on the right track about everything. I appreciate everyones help!



Here is a pics of my car if that helps anyone..I posted on a previous post here...



digipicsS1087.jpg




digipicsS1084.jpg




S1004.jpg
 
Car Wash: Poorboys Slick N Suds w/ 2xEurow Sheepskin and Pakshak/Excel Monterey MF WW for drying

Two bucket wash

Clay Bar: Clay Magic use a soap mix agian...



Polish:

Poorboy SSR 2.5

Menzerna Final Polish II



Glaze: Red machine glaze



Wax -

Carnauba: Natty Blue



Detail spray (for removing polish, use to prim pads/buffer, and in between waxing intervals) spray and wipe/ spray and gloss



Polishing pads - edge 2k pads cutting/light cutting/polishing/finishing



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

That is what would do. But I have used PwC blue and Natty's blue and it came out great.

53b1846b.jpg
 
Dank,



[Hey man, Thanks for the help!

Is AIO as good as a pre-wax cleaner as Final Polish? If I used AIO after IP, would I still benefit from a seperate glaze, or would it be counterproductive? ]



----AIO is a better pre-wax "cleaner" than FPII whereas FPII is a better "polish"(that's all it is). I LOVE FPII. I was just trying to save you a step or two, because you will not see the difference. AIO has enough polishing action in it to "clean up" any hazziness left by IP; it also lays down a pretty good "Glazed look." It would be nearly impossible to see the difference by glazing on top of AIO, and some people believe a glaze hurts the ability of the sealant to bond whereas AIO is perfect for a sealant to bond to. Either way, you won't actually see a difference in durability or wettness.



[Also, I have read a few people saying that I can get the best of both worlds by applying a carnauba over a polymer sealant...like EX-P then a coat of Souveran or Natty Blue. I have been told that if I do this I will get the depth of the carnauba, as well as the shine and protection of the sealants. Let me know if Im understnading this correctly.]

---Pretty much, though if look is your sole goal, hard to beat Souveran on top of a glaze (nothing else). Poor durability though.



[So maybe a good combo would be...

Menzerna IP > AIO > Glaze > EX-P > Natty Blue]



--Sure, this will work great.



[One last thing. Are Vanilla and Red Moose both Glazes? I have heard some people using them as polishes? Would one of these be good in between my AIO and EX-P.]



--Have not yet used VM. VM is a stronger polish than RMG, as RMG only has very light "cleaners"in it. MAny ways you could go...instead of AIO you could substitute VM. See...this is why I wanted to keep it simple for you :)



Also, Should I use water or detail spray for priming for polishing pads? Also, I have heard that some use a detail spray for removal...is this neccessary? I don't want to use up all my products if its not absolutely neccessary.

---Not really necessary. If you are trying to get more working time, you could add a squirt of a QD to your pad...but don't overcomplicate it.
 
Of these suggestions, Holland_Patrick's is the closest to what *I'd* do (I'd just use Meg's #80 instead of the FPII since I somehow doubt you'll get it perfect- don't take that as a criticism).



On black (noting that I've never worked your brand of clear) I'd expect to need a second polish such as the FPII or #80. NO way will the AIO remove any micromarring from the more aggressive polishing, at least it never has for me. IMO you'll have enough of a challenge getting the marring out to your satisfaction so I'd concentrate on that (the polishing step) and I wouldn't use AIO on this job.



As I posted on the other thread, wash/clay/polish/glaze (optional)/wax. I sure wouldn't use a sealant *then* a wax on this one. I wouldn't worry about the subtle differences between LSPs at this point, that'll be the least significant factor when it comes to how things turn out.



I don't bother priming my pads when using the PC (just the rotary). I use the product to prime the pad (I rub it into the pad).
 
ok, thanks again everyone...this is helping me out greatly!



Ok..lets do this one thing at a time...for the abbrasive polish...

Should I go with Menzerna IP, or PB 2.5 ?

What is better at removing swirls, and leaving a glossy polished finish?

What is easier to apply, remove, and to work with overall?



Next, After polishing with one of those, I will need a pre wax cleaner. I guess my choices would be Menzerna FP II, AIO, VM, or RMG. It seems that these seem to be some of the best, correct? Or is there anything out there in the same price range that would fit my needs better?

It seems that AIO isnt that strong, and would be better off using a seperate cleaner plolish (like FPII), and then a glaze polish(like VM or RMG).

Again, what will fit my needs best?

What will be easiest to work with and get results w/o have too much experience with a buffer?



As for the wax...I have read severall times that its best to top a sealant with a carnauba to get the best of both worlds...but if you think I won't tell a differnce then I just get a wax that will give me the best depth, and gloss, while not sacrificing too much durability. BTW..I dont mind waxing every month if thats what I have to do. (usually I do it every other month)

In this case I will probably go with the Natty Blue since I have heard it will look almost as good as souveran and it will be more cost effective..



So in essence, I might go with your combo that you are using Holland Patrick. It seems that you car looks very nice. Very mean looking! I love black on sports cars! Hopefully I can get mine looking as good as yours.
 
Though I disagree (aimably) with Accumilator (AIO will, without a doubt be sufficient to remove any micromarring left by IP, as it contains a larger number of smaller abrasives rather than other products that get more aggressive by using larger abrasives - this is what makes Menzerna polishes the only true "stand-out" polish in my book). SSR 2.5 will live micromarring requiring a dedicated/pure polish to remove, so on that note, Accumilator has an excellent point - if you are going to use a two step polish process, it would be a safe bet to use use two dedicated polishes. Go with IP then FP. Then seal. It's also true that the last step product will be the least relavent factor to how good your paint looks.
 
Per your post #8 - you don't need a pre-wax cleaner; this step is accomplished with polishing. You only need a pre-wax cleaner (AIO is the industry standard) if you don't need to remove swirls and thus won't be polishing). What you are doing is: "mediu"m-agressive"polish step, "light-aggressiveness"polish step to restore full gloss, glazing (if desired) to add wettness and help fill remining imperfections, and then protecting.



You cannot beat Menzerna if you aren't concerned about the price. IP "finishes"down almost perfectly; in fact, I'm positive that after you try it you will tell me that you were hard-pressed to see a difference in gloss between IP alone and IP followed by FPII (assuming you work IP long enough).
 
Ok here is my take on things and this is truly what i would do.



Take a week off and drive that thing over to my house and i'll do it for ya... ;)





Really some times your splitting hairs with products it's what YOU like best. I have a ton it's adictive.

If i was you i would go with what i think i would like you seem to like the Poorboy's stuff so Stick with that



wash-two mits two bucks Gritguard and PB SSS wash

Clay I haven't used it but i'm told PB clay works well

Drying Again PB has a really nice WW towel

MF I got a SUPER SUPER nice Towel from PB that is the Fluffiest i own.. VERY NICE (get afew of these)

SSR 2.5

SSR 1.0

This is the only time i would go out side of the line Red machine glaze from clear coat

Natty's blue wax



For QD Spray and wax

for glossing up Spray and glosss(also you can spit shine the natty's)



the combos go on and on...



Here is Opt polish with TOL trade secert

before

IMG_2431.jpg


midway

IMG_2435.jpg


done

IMG_2440.jpg
 
RAG said:
Though I disagree (aimably) with Accumilator (AIO will, without a doubt be sufficient to remove any micromarring left by IP, as it contains a larger number of smaller abrasives rather than other products that get more aggressive by using larger abrasives...
Click to expand...



We're probably just working with different types of paint. I've never used AIO on my Jag's soft lacquer, only on clears that're sorta hard. The 1-micron/~10,000 grit abrasives in AIO might be too mild for what I work with; the lightest stuff that'll do *anything* for me is 1Z Pro MP. It's the same story with products like Autoglym SRP and Pinnacle PCL, people say they correct, but they just don't do it for me :nixweiss





dank311- Can't help with the choice between Menzerna IP and the PB's 2.5 as I don't use either of them (Menzerna's FP works well for me though). I think you'll find as many people preferring one as the other so flip a coin.
 
Well



Ok well, here is the list...close to final...



Soap - PB SSS w/ grit guard and 2 bucket method...using same Pakshak/Excel MF as above

Clay - Clay magic



***Now here is the part that I still need help with***

Polish Combo A:

Menzerna IP > Menzerna FP II



Polish Combo B:

PB 2.5 > PB 1

*** Followed By:



Glaze - Clearkote RMG



Wax - Natty Blue



Now, all I need to decide on is the polish combo..I realize everone has made great points already, and is pretty much personal opinion on these products...But, knowing that this step is going to make the biggest difference, I dont want to cheap out on anything. I want the best look for the money. I guess the only deciding factor on a polish combo will be the following:



What will produce the best results on black?

What is easiest to work with, being a begginer at using a PC?



I know these questions have been asked before, but if someone could address them more directly, that would greatly help me out. I know both combos will prob work, but I just want to make sure after spending soo much money, that I am going to have a dripping wet look that I will be pleased with. So, I guess what Im trying to say..whats the best combo, that you think DEFINATELY wont let me down?
 
Also, If I wanted to go with AIO...I would just replace FP II with AIO in combo A, and replace PB 1 with AIO in combo B correct...then I could follow up with the glaze and sealant correct.

Im just trying to make sure which products correspond to each other.
 
I would go with the poorboys' line. I work with both and IP and FPII is nicer with the rotary.



Skip AIO after the final polish you don't need it and thr RMG will take it off anyways.



skip the sealent you want the nuba look..
 
Dank - I think you got it. Just choose and play. I agree in that there is no need to use AIO if you're going to use RMG, but a lot of guys really like RMG on top of AIO. Just personal preferance. Speaking of personal preference, I'm one of the rare people that don't like the SSR products with a porter cable - under my 2 1000 watt halogens, I sometimes see marring left by these product that don't clean up easily (depending on clear coat at hand).
 
Got to test some more theory's today on red car with a showcar paint job that hasn't been buffed for several years. The swirls were heavy but the owner didn't want to pay for a two-step polish process, so I told him I would use the most aggressive polish I could that didn't leave any haziness or rotary halograms. I decided to use a rotary with a white Sonus polishing pads.



-Tried OP first - barely dented the swirls

-SSR2 next - same results, not sufficient

-Optimum Compound - A little better than SSR2, but not good enough. And under high RPMs I was getting a little splatter.

-SSR 2.5 - a little better swirl remove, but not great by any means. And I could see some very SLIGHT halos

-IP - WOW. MUCH greater defect removal than 2.5 and finished down excellent. I removed heavy swirls in one step and left no halograms. Only negative is that it dusts (as true compounds do) when the product begins to dry on the edge of the pad.



Anyways, though I did not use a PC, this confirms (for me at least) that very little (or no) follow-up correction is needed after IP.



That's it, I'm done playing with other polishes. For final finishing, I like several popular polishes, but for medium- and heavy-duty work, NOTHING can match IP and PG respectively.
 
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