Pinnacle Souveran
- Thread starter jw
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imported_DieselMDX
New member
jasil said:
IMO PS is SUPERIOR to NB
Accumulator
Well-known member
NSXTASY said:
Well, I wouldn't go *that* far, but the XJS's hood does need redone pretty frequently what with all the engine heat.
If you pick the right shampoo it'll stay OK for a few washes before it starts to lose slickness (and it's downhill fast from that point). Oddly enough Pinnacle's Bodywork Shampoo seems *VERY* harsh on Souveran..maybe it's *not* that odd as you'll need to buy more in no time
As for the look I can understand people being on both sides of the fence. *I* like it, but some of the stuff I don't like by comparison probably looks *better* to somebody else :nixweiss
My garage queen is Imola red and Souveran or Victoria Concours make it turn heads.
A perfect base, then UPGP (a couple of layers) topped with one of the above make the old girl just gleam.
Short waxlife on the car doesn't matter, the car's so small, another coat takes only a a little while, and the goal isn't long lasting durability, a superior look is.
The winter driver, Sluggo, gets Collinite for it's great staying power.
In the depths of the dark Canadian winter, I'll even give the M coupe a layer of Souveran just to smell that great smell.
-John C.
A perfect base, then UPGP (a couple of layers) topped with one of the above make the old girl just gleam.
Short waxlife on the car doesn't matter, the car's so small, another coat takes only a a little while, and the goal isn't long lasting durability, a superior look is.
The winter driver, Sluggo, gets Collinite for it's great staying power.
In the depths of the dark Canadian winter, I'll even give the M coupe a layer of Souveran just to smell that great smell.
-John C.
Accumulator
Well-known member
pattieman said:
Never tried that :nixweiss
I dunno...the Souveran might not like the presumably strong solvents in the 476S. I'd at least employ some sort of spit-shine to mitigate the solvent-effect.
If anyone is looking to try some Souveran; check the classifieds.
I have a new tub of Souveran; 8oz. of Liquid Souveran and 1/2 a bottle of Crystal Mist; with a new mf applicator I'd love to get rid of.
I've tried them in the past; but I no longer have a dark colored vehicle to use them on and I need more durable products; so I've moved on.
Souveran looks GREAT on solid reds; blacks; even bright yellows; pretty much any solid color. I even like it on white.
It doesn't attract dust any worse than other 'pure carnauba' waxes though. It does hold onto dust a little harder than Zaino and there most CERTAINLY is a noticeable visual difference between the two products.
Durability wise; Zaino has to get the nod though. But 2 months isn't out of the question for Souveran either.
I have a new tub of Souveran; 8oz. of Liquid Souveran and 1/2 a bottle of Crystal Mist; with a new mf applicator I'd love to get rid of.
I've tried them in the past; but I no longer have a dark colored vehicle to use them on and I need more durable products; so I've moved on.
Souveran looks GREAT on solid reds; blacks; even bright yellows; pretty much any solid color. I even like it on white.
It doesn't attract dust any worse than other 'pure carnauba' waxes though. It does hold onto dust a little harder than Zaino and there most CERTAINLY is a noticeable visual difference between the two products.
Durability wise; Zaino has to get the nod though. But 2 months isn't out of the question for Souveran either.
Envious Eric
New member
if you are after durability, go with a sealant
if you are after looks, go with souveran
souveran has about a month of protection at most, IME. I have had the same tin of souveran and laid it on about 20 cars...still have about 10-12 cars to go before I run out.
if you are after looks, go with souveran
souveran has about a month of protection at most, IME. I have had the same tin of souveran and laid it on about 20 cars...still have about 10-12 cars to go before I run out.
Accumulator
Well-known member
loudog2 said:
I wonder if it really works that way :think: That's not an :argue I truly don't know
But I *suspect* the Collinite lasts pretty long even with something like Souveran (or maybe even a glaze) underneath it.Example: I used 1Z WPS on my DenaliXL before applying the Collinite. That 1Z WPS doesn't last long at all by itself, probably no longer than Souveran (though I've never done a direct comparison). Many months later the Collinite is still doing fine, the durability doesn't appear to have suffered any from having the 1Z WPS under it.
toyotaguy said:
That's about what I get too, but then there are people like Scottwax, who's in *Texas* no less, who get far better durability out of it than we do :nixweiss
Of course when I leave the Jag undriven in the garage, the Souveran lasts a nice long time
One of the things that I love about your contributions, Accumulator, is your willingness to challenge the conventional detailing wisdoms. Conventional wisdom tells us that the most durable protectant should go on the bottom, which seems perfectly logical to me. But you point out, based on your extensive experience, that it ain't necessarily so. Waxes ... sealants ... how they work ... why they work and don't work ... there's so much we simply do not know.
Thanks.
Thanks.
I think it is quite simply. If you applied a primer over old cracking paint. Would the primer come off if the paint started to peel? If you repainted a piece of metal(w/out removing the old paint/primer), and the old paint started to come off, would the new paint follow? If the first layer down stopped bonding, started evaporating, or simply broke down.The second is bonded to that layer.
That's to say, that you can truley apply to seperate coats of wax without combining them. But I may be wrong.
That's to say, that you can truley apply to seperate coats of wax without combining them. But I may be wrong.
Accumulator
Well-known member
loudog2 said:
Long-winded response follows..not an :argue but rather a discussion as I find this stuff (and people's takes on it) interesting.
I've done enough paint/body work (back in the day) that IMO it's not analogous to the LSP/penultimate product issue. Simply different things going on. (Oh..ever use "Wall Up"? Pretty sure that was the name...It's an industrial paint for buildings that you can spray over peeling/etc. existing paint, over dirt, over most anything. It *stays stuck*, and I don't mean for just a few years. Different stuff behaves differently.)
Different (better?) analogy#1: KAIO is *not* a durable product; the little bit of stuff it leaves behind will only last a few weeks. But people put all sorts of stuff over top of it and all that stuff is considered durable/not on its own merit; the KAIO underneath is never blamed/credited for how long the LSP lasts.
Different (better?) analogy#2: Meguiar's #80 leaves some short-lived stuff behind. People use all sorts of stuff over #80 (without an IPA wipe) and similarly, the LSP's durability stands/falls on its own.
I dunno...I guess some people aren't gonna believe me on this one until they prove it to themselves :nixweiss
At least it's not at all hard to prove to oneself
Just apply something short-lived like Megiuar's #5 (about the most user-friendly product ever so it'll take a whole two minutes if you're slow) to one panel and leave the adjacent panel bare. Then apply Collinite to both panels and watch them until one/both show some evidence of LSP degradation. See if there's a significant (and that's significant *in your opinion* as you might see things differently than I do) difference.Who knows, maybe different people will get different results and we can :think: about what's going on.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's *some* difference between the two (especially if you use a penultimate product like #5 that's not at all durable), but IME it's not gonna be significant. Disclaimer: I can't recall if I've ever used 476S over #5 or not...I want to think I have but I can't remember doing it and I can't find it in my detailing log.
But I do know that I've *NEVER* applied Collinite 476S over bare paint. Not once. It's always gone over some kind of base, usually over a 1Z brand polish. So my rave reviews regarding Collinite's durability are *all* based on using it over top of something that will only last for a few weeks by itself. And it always seems to behave the same no matter what I apply it over.
I *have* applied 845 over bare paint, only once and oddly enough that was the one instance when a Collinite wax did *not* prove durable (845 on the A8's rear bumper cover only lasted a few weeks, not as long as #16 usually does :nixweiss ).
Accumulator said:Long-winded response follows..not an :argue but rather a discussion as I find this stuff (and people's takes on it) interesting.
I've done enough paint/body work (back in the day) that IMO it's not analogous to the LSP/penultimate product issue. Simply different things going on. (Oh..ever use "Wall Up"? Pretty sure that was the name...It's an industrial paint for buildings that you can spray over peeling/etc. existing paint, over dirt, over most anything. It *stays stuck*, and I don't mean for just a few years. Different stuff behaves differently.)
Different (better?) analogy#1: KAIO is *not* a durable product; the little bit of stuff it leaves behind will only last a few weeks. But people put all sorts of stuff over top of it and all that stuff is considered durable/not on its own merit; the KAIO underneath is never blamed/credited for how long the LSP lasts.
Different (better?) analogy#2: Meguiar's #80 leaves some short-lived stuff behind. People use all sorts of stuff over #80 (without an IPA wipe) and similarly, the LSP's durability stands/falls on its own.
I dunno...I guess some people aren't gonna believe me on this one until they prove it to themselves :nixweiss
At least it's not at all hard to prove to oneself
Who knows, maybe different people will get different results and we can :think: about what's going on.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's *some* difference between the two (especially if you use a penultimate product like #5 that's not at all durable), but IME it's not gonna be significant. Disclaimer: I can't recall if I've ever used 476S over #5 or not...I want to think I have but I can't remember doing it and I can't find it in my detailing log.
But I do know that I've *NEVER* applied Collinite 476S over bare paint. Not once. It's always gone over some kind of base, usually over a 1Z brand polish. So my rave reviews regarding Collinite's durability are *all* based on using it over top of something that will only last for a few weeks by itself. And it always seems to behave the same no matter what I apply it over.
I *have* applied 845 over bare paint, only once and oddly enough that was the one instance when a Collinite wax did *not* prove durable (845 on the A8's rear bumper cover only lasted a few weeks, not as long as #16 usually does :nixweiss ).
I agree. The difference will not be significant. I've seen people argue this forever. Also, the argument that you are combining the products, not layering. Which ever, people have differing opinoins about everything. I respect your opinions. I'm not trying to fight about this. Just stating my opinion. Ther are products that would work, and not work. but if you are actually combining these, then it doesn't matter.
Accumulator
Well-known member
loudog2- Glad you didn't take my post the wrong way.
