Pinnacle Poly Clay

R

RAG

New member
Has anyone else used both the Pinnacle Poly Clay and the Sonus Ultra-Fine? I have about 7 or 8 different clays, but no two clays are as similar as these two... I cannot tell the difference other than the color.



I wonder if they use the same manufacturer and/or same specs? They come in the same size and wrapper...hmmm.





Ryan A. Gelardi (RAG)

Magic Mobile Detailing
 
Sonus says they developed their own clay, but I know there are a very limited number of actual manufactures...so I figured there was a good chance they are actually identical...anyone?
 
I just ordered ordered some of the Sonus Ultra Fine. I hope its enough to clean my car as Ive never clayed this particular car before.
 
Pinnacle claims that their product is manufactured exclusively for them. They make the same claim for products like Souveran. There is a thread about this over on AutoGeek right now.
 
Sonus makes it sound the same way...but I think their is only a few actual makers. In any case...they are the same size, texture, density, etc. as far as I can tell.
 
RAG said:
Sonus makes it sound the same way...but I think their is only a few actual makers. In any case...they are the same size, texture, density, etc. as far as I can tell.
Click to expand...



No arguments here.
 
There is ONLY ONE manufacture of clay left in the world. As a result, the price of clay is going up.



A few of us private label clay from the manufacture, specifying color, content of abrasive, size of abrasive, softness of the clay, etc. There are a number of factors that go into a private label clay.



I can only speculate why the owner of the Pinnacle brand decided to use green when we (Sonus) selected green as our color many months earlier. <shrug> It IS NOT the same formulation.



More information here: http://www.guidetodetailing.com/articles.php?articleId=61
 
It seems that AG/Pinnacle are really touting the fact that this "new" clay will not remove existing paint protection no matter how often it is used. IMO this is nothing but irresponsible marketing hype and people over on DC are already falling for this "hook, line, and sinker." :rolleyes:



There is no magic clay that enables you to clay as often as you want and never have to reapply paint protection. Clay is an abrasive and can't selectively remove contaminants on/in your sealant without also removing some amount of sealant, too.



As far as their prices are concerned, the Sonus clay is definitely the better value.
 
Just to clarify, regardless what Pinnacle claims..... They do have 2 different clays Poly Clay(yellow) & Ultra Poly Clay(green). I have tried niether but this discussion kind of confuses the 2 different clays. The Ultra Poly Clay is what supposedly doesnt take off wax. I will admit to ordering some Ultra Poly Clay just to check it out. With that said the only other clay I have used is the Sonus, which works very well for me, Thank You.
 
Automagic and their new owner, ITW, have successfully protected their numerous patents on clay against competitors. I have posted links to the patents before, but, as DavidB alluded to, the patents cover many, many variations in clay formulations, enough to allow for unique formulations for all the sellers.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Automagic and their new owner, ITW, have successfully protected their numerous patents on clay against competitors. I have posted links to the patents before, but, as DavidB alluded to, the patents cover many, many variations in clay formulations, enough to allow for unique formulations for all the sellers.
Click to expand...





This is exactly correct. AWC, originally patented detailing clay and the clay process. They defended their rights very agressively in court. When ITW purchased AWC, the primary asset they bought is the clay patents and the relationship with the manufacturer.



100% of all clay manufacturing is in Japan through one company. Some companies go directly to the manufacturer and pay a licensing fee on every bar made, while others buy direct from ITW.



Regarding the name "Poly Clay", this was a name given to the Kucala "elastic" clay. The way the patent holders argued their clay products in court was "plastic" vs. "elastic".



The elastic clay no longer exists and it can no longer be manufactured.



db
 
FYI... with the new ownership of AWC, and the lawsuits over clay complete, the price of clay has gone up significantly. If you find a good deal on clay, I suggest you snap it up.
 
DavidB said:
The elastic clay no longer exists and it can no longer be manufactured.



db
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And this is a complete shame. This was some of the best detailing clay there was, IMO. Sometimes the world makes progress, and other times we take a step backwards. Unfortunately, for consumers, this is a step in the wrong direction and the removal of a great product that was at our disposal. Nothing like some good ole corporate greed...



Personally, I may just start finding alternative sources of contamination removal. They can have their price hikes and monopoly....
 
There have been some threads on use of synthetic modeling clays or use of blu-tak (and similar).



Here's a summary given by Foxtrapper in March '04 on a prior thread about synthetic clay's use:

Found the thread on using modeling clay. Wasn't exactly as I recalled, but very close. Here's the gist of it from a few comments.



I used Premo clay the last time I detailed my truck. There are several different types of clay used for crafts. I found that the higher the baking temperature on the side of the package, the more plasticizers are in the clay making it better for our application.

There are some clays out there that leave a residual on the surface. They don't harm the surface, but it's extra work to scrub off the clay.

I use Meguiar's Quick Detailer when I clay my rig. Mother's works well, too. I didn't like Meguiar's clay because it dried out too quickly and wasn't as maleable as Mother's. The Premo clay is nearly identical to Mother's and produces the same results. Another cool feature about craft store clay is that you can get in different colors.



and



The more plasticizers, the more the clay feels like plastic rather than clay. A low temp clay (say 245°) will be softer than a 275° clay. You can feel the difference in your fingers. The low temp clay will leave a residue on your fingers, the high temp won't. Low temp clay tends to dissolve with the detailing mist. Typically, a bar of clay from a craft store costs $1.50 around here. The highest I've paid was $2.30. A helluva bargain if you just want to experiment with different compounds.

*******



So, David and others, given the increasing cost of auto detailing clay, what is the downside of using Premo or other modeling clay? Does it actually do harm, or just provide sub-optimal results compared to the high priced spreads?
 
Sherri-- I have no knowledge about the actual make-up of modeling clay, but why would it contain abrasives like auto detailing clay. Unless I'm missing something, I would think that would be a very important difference between the two that would not make them interchangeable.
 
Well, there are mineral fillers in both modeling and detailing clays, and with the modeling clay, the sort of fillers determine the bake temp and the relative stiffness. Prior experimenting Autopians have found that hi-temp clays appear to correspond with the mildly abrasive qualities that made for decent detailing.



In my search of the board, I found a post by Forrest, who was or is a VP for Marketing at Mothers, where a chemist for Mothers (he said) provided a "why not to use blue-tak and modeling clay for detailing" response. Basically, the statement boiled down to a sort of scare tactic of "why risk ruining your car finish" and "we use special secret ingredients." Fear-mongering seemed the dominant component, without any real facts as to the differences in ingredients or function.



So, I'm still looking for facts.
 
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