PB's S&W and ONR @ QD Strength

[budman3]

I think you would be much better off with ONR

that is the product with all the hype around here

For a bucket wash ONR is a good way to go, when a hose isn't available. But, as MotorCity states, for 'spray washes' Poorboy's S&W is tried and true with many happy users. I'm not saying ONR diluted in a spray bottle won't work (I'll test that against S&W tomorrow and update this thread) but S&W is designed specifically for waterless washing.

OK. Since S&W doesn't marr, I assumed it has tons of lubricants in it which would be left on the paint even after wiping.

I guess if you look at it that way, almost anything used on your paint will leave something behind. Using a traditonal wash will leave a soap residue behind. Polishes will leave oils behind. Alcohol and pure water (50/50 iso mix) may be the only thing that doesn't leave anything behind... but whoknows, I am no scientist. S&W doesn't contain any silicones. It does contain various surfactants, emulsifiers and other cleaning agents though. It doesn't have intentional clay, fillers or protection (sealant or carnauba) properties like other brands do. If any of the cleaning agents are left behind, they'll probably evaporate and won't cause any issues.

You would get a huge argument about that statement from a lot of people.

An argument on Autopia? For those that have actually used S&W, I would be surprised to see any actual proof of this...



Car washes leave residue behind and over time they can fade or take away from the clarity of the finish. The same is true for carnauba- over time the clarity fades. S&W removes any residue or unbonded contaminants ('dead' wax) causing unclarity and would thus restore the clarity. It isn't leaving anything behind to restore the look, it is just removing the junk that is hindering it. If there is any protection left on the paint, the S&W will show it. That being said, S&W works best on maintained vehicles. The slickness of the wax and sealant will help the performance of the product.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

S&W doesn't contain any silicones. It does contain various surfactants, emulsifiers and other cleaning agents though. It doesn't have intentional clay, fillers or protection (sealant or carnauba) properties like other brands do.

And you base this on what? A chemical analysis? Very respected members here have stated that S&W leaves something behind. http://autopia.org/forum/detailing-...ew-contains-wax.html?highlight=S&W#post671538 I am not making that claim, however I will state absolutely IME that SSR2.5 leaves something behind, which is another product touted by Pb's to have no fillers, etc.

 

[budman3]

I base that on talking to the owner of Poorboy's, actual experience (2-3 gallons of S&W) and based off other users experiences. In that link most of the posts have been deleted and don't prove anything. Maybe they were deleted because the poster realized that the statements made were wrong? Maybe you don't know that your respected member had a grudge? Maybe that respected member had a "reliable source" at one point in time about another PB product, was wrong, and never admitted his source?



You have no right bringing SSR2.5 into this either. It has absolutely nothing to do with the original topic. But since you brought it up, Menzerna fills swirls in too if you don't use the polishes correctly. So what you found/heard could very well be user error. I have pictures after SSR2.5 and after a 50/50 wipedown... no filling apparent.



I don't know why I bother posting it's not like it makes any difference to you. I know that what I post is accurate from my own experiences. You can't believe everything posted online, even if it's from a respected person.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I don't know why I bother posting it's not like it makes any difference to you. I know that what I post is accurate from my own experiences. You can't believe everything posted online, even if it's from a respected person.

That would be a conundrum, wouldn't it? I like SSR2.5 a lot, but I can't get a squeaky-clean polished surface from it like I can with SSR1 or SSR2, yet the Poorboy's description says it has no fillers, etc., and I'm sure Steve would tell you the same thing, but for me it behaves more like a one-step with some wax in it. But I'm sure you're right, because you can't believe everything posted online...



As far as S&W, I just sprayed some on an old enameled pot I happened to have sitting in my workshop. I scrubbed it with a MF, then sprayed some S&W on one side, and rubbed my finger on that half...and it glided over the surface not unlike it would if coated with LSP....the other side was squeaky and draggy. The argument that a product like S&W could work on a dirty surface without any lubricants and leave the surface as clean as an IPA wipe is rather specious.



So I guess your experiences are more accurate than mine? Or your opinions are?

 

[budman3]

Everyone should be able to voice their opinion. You can say what you want and I can say what I want. It's impossible to say who is more accurate because both of us are making speculations based on our experiences. I am fine with agreeing that neither of us has all of the answers... that's apparent. However, if you don't want to agree on that, you may want to find more support for your side than just basing it off of squeakiness.

 

[budman3]

Alright, I just finished up doing a few tests for you guys. I used Poorboy’s S&W and ONR mixed to 6 oz per gallon. I didn’t make up a full batch so I used .25 oz to a little more than 5 oz of water. This is 1/24th the size of the normal ratio for ONR. For the silver vehicle and glass I used one towel per product. On the green vehicle I used 1 towel for both – ½ for each product.



Products used:

First test- truck bed. On the right hand side I used S&W and on the left I used the ONR.



S&W side before:

S&W sprayed on:

S&W after:

Close up of area- no micro marring visible:

ONR side before:

ONR on:

After ONR:

Close up of area- again no micro marring present:

This was my first time using ONR using this technique. It cleaned the paint very nicely, was quite gentle and removed all of the dirt. However, the water content in the product took a long time to evaporate and get absorbed in the MF towel. The solution kind of sloshed around on the paint where the S&W went away immediately. It is 40 degrees out which may have something to do with it as well though. The ONR contains sealant protection and that side was indeed slicker than the S&W side. The truck has Collinite 845 and OCW on it…

 

[budman3]

Second Test- Glass. I know both ONR and S&W are safe for glass use so I decided to try it out.



S&W side before:

S&W side after:

ONR side before:

ONR side after:

ONR won this test hands down. I was pleasantly surprised that ONR worked so well. Talk about an economical glass cleaner. The S&W did clean the glass but it streaked a little but that was removed with a second, dry plush MF towel. The ONR worked fine with just one towel. I'm sure it'd get even better if I add alcohol to the mixture as well...



(I left a strip in the middle dirty for comparision purposes)

 

[budman3]

Third Test- Jeep. I thought you’d like to see pictures on a dark color and outside shots…



Here is the before picture for both ONR (left) and S&W (right)

S&W on:

S&W after:

Towel after:

ONR on:

ONR after:

Towel after:

Reflections after:

Again both cleaned the same amount and left no visible marring or scratches. The ONR evaporated a little faster this time, since it was outside, but the S&W was still a lot quicker. Maybe a stronger solution of ONR will prevent this... I feel that ONR with this dilution is safe but I’d prefer to use S&W because it feels better to use- it wipes off and dries a lot easier. I have plenty of S&W and have no problem using that on lightly dirty vehicles. For moderate dirty vehicles I’ll use ONR as a rinseless wash. If it is severely dirty, I’d bring out the bucket and hose. The ONR side was also slicker than the S&W after once again. The door currently has a LSP of Natty’s Red topped with Opti-seal…



Hope this helps …

 

[Jrichards4]

Thank you for that test! Really appreciated.

 

[budman3]

Not a problem, glad someone found it useful .

 

[Chronos]

What dilution do you usually use S&W at? It seems like they give too little for use straight out of the bottle.

 

[budman3]

S&W is used undiluted, straight out of the bottle. 16 oz will last 4-8 cars probably depending on how dirty it is. It is much more economically to buy it by the gallon or 5 gallon pail .