Pay scale detailers

Frank,

I now understand why I am so frustrated with your responses...Because everyone else felt the same way - I now know I'm not just being irrational in my thinking this thread and the current thread explain everything about you and your intentions http://autopia.org/forum/showthread.php?t=30737



Be it that this was in 2003 I still cant believe you havent yet changed your ways or haven't been banned.



Other interesting posts by Frank:

http://autopia.org/forum/showthread.php?t=33105&page=1&pp=12

http://autopia.org/forum/showthread.php?t=49224



Just a question that you probably won't answer because it seems you like to ignore people who disagree with you - - Do you ever look at other people's perspectives on the questions you ask or topics at hand. Or do you merely wish to speak your wisdom for everyone else to hear?



You constantly talk about services, marketing, and prices...Can you please inform us of the services you offer, your prices, and how you meet the customers needs? I checked out your site but all I found were instructional manuals that you sell...do you detail or just sell marketing information? It sounds like you run more of a car wash company than paint correction.
 
MX823 said:
....since the idea of this topic seemed to be, how do detailers increase their perceived value of their service so they can charge rates in-line with the service they provide.



Seek out other detailers pro, part-time and weekenders (even the wash and wax guys) in your area and show them the light. Share information , educate, form a local association to discuss the challenges faced, collectively. So you can raise awareness. You may even have fun spending time with others that share your passion. :hifive:



Imagine more detailers within your DMA (direct market area) spreading the word. Just a thought?!
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Although many in the industry will continue to view local detailers as direct competition, there is a lot to be said about teaming up with other pro detailers in your own area.
 
Wow, what an interesting thread!!



Not sure that I can add much, but just some thoughts that come to mind....mostly random. :D



In *my* neck of the woods, it seems that no one can remove swirls, nor can they buff without instilling *horrible* holograms. The fact that I can remove this damage(or I think I can anyways :D ) makes my services more valuable to my clients. When they call me, I am their last resort--price *never* even comes up until I am finihsed and they ask "what's the damage?" I could charge whatever I want, but I don't--just the flat $40 an hour. Another thing that I should add is that *all* of my work is referral based, they know that I am "expensive" before I even show up.



So who needs to be educated? Perhaps we all do? I am all for it, let's learn!! IMO, price is only an issue when a customer doesn't understand exactly what you are doing. If they can see the value in what you are doing, price is the smallest part of the equation. Once they understand your services, and subsequently why they are paying what you charge, they will swear by your services. Until they reach this point, they are still prospects, not customers. I don't even consider price shoppers, they are not my target market, they are more concerned with price than value--they always will be.



***DISCLAIMER***



I don't do this full time, so I don't even pretend to think of what I do to be the same as the guys around here who put food on the table with detailing. I have mucho respect for these guys, it seems like it could be a tough way to go depending on the market you are in.
 
ebpcivicsi



Wow, great response. You have the clearest vision of anyone on this thread of who does business with you, why they come to you, and what you want out of it. Seems like a recipe for success to me. Congrats!



Sam
 
I had an interesting conversation yesterday with one of my good customers, an attorney who is also in business for himself. We got to talking about business costs, such as the high cost of health insurance. He mentioned that he was paying out over $2400 per month, which works out to almost $30,000 a year, to insure himself and three other employees.



During our conversation, he asked me how much I charge him to detail his cars. At first I was surprised by his question, especially when you figure I have been taking care of detailing his cars for more than 15 years. Then he went on to explain that since his wife takes care of paying the invoices and he has been completely satisfied with my work, he has never really had a reason to get involved with how much I am charging him. Imagine, the price had nothing to do with his decision to continue to call on me to detail his cars. In his mind, price was never a factor.



True story.
 
So you just show up, detail the cars without informing your customers on the price and send the invoice? - - You never spoke to anyone about pricing? Ever had anyone unhappy with your pricing when they recieved the invoice
 
Joshua312 said:
So you just show up, detail the cars without informing your customers on the price and send the invoice? - - You never spoke to anyone about pricing? Ever had anyone unhappy with your pricing when they recieved the invoice
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Happens to me on 90% of details, only I don't invoice. :D



I show up, detail, they ask how much, then pay--they typically tip too. :nixweiss
 
mirrorfinishman said:
Imagine, the price had nothing to do with his decision to continue to call on me to detail his cars. In his mind, price was never a factor.



True story.
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How does this fit in with the "educating the consumer..." diatribe? It sounds like you just proved what Scottwax said, that the key is finding the customer who wants an Autopian-level detail, not trying to "edumacate" a $3.95 car wash customer into one.
 
ebpcivicsi said:
Happens to me on 90% of details, only I don't invoice. :D



I show up, detail, they ask how much, then pay--they typically tip too. :nixweiss
Click to expand...





Dude, I LOVE your business model!



:hifive:
 
just to add another dimension. Plumbers and many other "contractor" type businesses not only have pay health insurance costs but also workers comp and many other insurances. In most cases those companies/individuals have to carry several MILLIONs of dollars worth of coverages. Those high hourly rates are needed to cover the insurance/operating costs of maintaining those businesses.
 
The reason why these people pay for health insurance costs, workers comp and many other insurances is because they clearly see themselves as operating professional businesses. When they carry several millions of dollars of coverages it is not only to protect themselves, it is also to protect their customers in case something happens that is beyond their control. They understand that as their business costs go up, so should their hourly rate pay scale.
 
wannafbody said:
just to add another dimension. Plumbers and many other "contractor" type businesses not only have pay health insurance costs but also workers comp and many other insurances. In most cases those companies/individuals have to carry several MILLIONs of dollars worth of coverages. Those high hourly rates are needed to cover the insurance/operating costs of maintaining those businesses.
Click to expand...



Wouldn't detailers have the same costs?
 
SamIam said:
If you're charging $275 for a detail, then you must be doing something right. Congrats. But making great money on the weekend detailing out of the back of your car, even doing it well, is not the same as running a successful detailing business.



Here is the problem in a nutshell. Even you, who know the difference, refer to lowpaid car washers or dealer cleanup guys as "Detailers". They aren't, they are day laborers who wash cars. I doubt that successful detailers like Jim, or Joe, or some of the others can legitimately be compared to car washers. I would expect they are clean cut, professional, honest, etc., etc., and showing the same admirable traits in their profession that you show in yours.



Again, I am sure that you do a fine job, as does Sean, Joe, and any number of other detailers here. However, I believe there is a huge difference between running a successful detailing business, and as you admit, performing it as a weekend hobby, albeit, a lucrative hobby. And it seems to me, the ability to detail is probably not even the most important skill in establishing yourself and your business as a successful entity.
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Here is an advertisement for a detailer in my neighborhood. Now tell me who gives a better image of what a detailer should be; me or this guy? This is what the public thinks of when it comes to who exactly is a detailer and the impression they are left with. This is why folks don't like to pay good money for a detail or understand why they should. This is what I mean when I say I bring my professionalism from my career as an Operations Manager and help to elevate the industry with my weekend detailing business. (I have "X" out the names):



My name is XXXXX i'm 27 i detail cars for 9 years i've worked for XXXXX BMW,Qualaty Auto Body,i worked on Bmw,Mercedes,Ifinity,Jaguar,Porche, Lexus,Aston Martin for any question contact me at: XXX XXX XXXX



This is a fellow professional in the industry. This is what the public thinks about detailers. This is why friends of the family looked at me like I was crossed eyed when I said I wanted to open up my own detailing business. "You want to wash cars for a living?!" That's what I got. Never mind I have almost 10 years experience in office administration such as payroll, benefits, insurance, bookeeping, invoicing, IT work, lawyer / accountant relationships, etc...



Many of the professional detailers on this board "work out of the trunk of their car" or van or truck, just as I work out of the trunk of my Jetta station wagon with my sandwich board sign to go at the foot of the driveway and professionaly designed and printed tri fold brochures, business cards, invoices, inspection sheets and check-off sheets. I leave the customer with a 2 page print out on how to maintain their finish and properly wash their car; complete with recommended products and procedures.



So, I stand by what I said; that weekend guys like me (and Joe and Sean and others here but who don't post) work to give detailers a good image and understand what it means to run a small business with a focus on customer satisfaction, stellar results and tolerate nothing less than "Autopian standards" of professionalism.
 
ebpcivicsi said:
Wouldn't detailers have the same costs?
Click to expand...





Correct me if I'm wrong as I don't know the level of insurance that pro mobile detailers carry but I suspect it is far less since the value of most of the vehicles they work on is less than 100k. Also the rate that an insurance company charges depends on the business classification. Insurance cost different amounts depending on average $$ amount per industry sector claims. For example-workers comp-one sector might charge 30cents per $1000 of employees pay where a different sector might be charged 10 times that amount. Fixed location detailers would have more overhead for building, insurance and staffing requirements. What you need to charge depends on your costs and MEETING the customers needs. Sometimes offering lower priced one step details along with multi-step details could net you more income. If you are in an affluent area $250-350 might be reasoanable. In my area the local quickie guy has a $50 and $100 detail and the affluent area guy is $150. Neither IMO would be the same as a full autopian multi-step detail.
 
The blame can be endless. There is plenty to go around so grab a plate and get yourself some blame.



Express detailer - Gave customers an option to improve appearance and protection of their vehicles quickly and at a lower total price. Also aided in confusing customers so that most don't understand the difference between express and auto detailing.



Dealerships - Great job on making poor quality almost the norm. Through quick fixes, want it all for nothing attitude and rush detailing the damage to the auto detailing business is horrible. Oh yeah and thanks for making the customers believe that paint protection should last 5 years.



Car Washes - Poor quality, vehicle damage, cheap labor has helped a lot.



Auto Detailers - Lower volume than the above three make it hard to get customers to understand there is a difference. Still it's your job to establish the difference, guess you just have to try harder. The $39.95 express or $6.95 car wash is happy if the customer thinks they are getting the same service that an auto detailer gives. Not so much fun the other way around though. Oh yeah and thanks for being in bed with the dealerships.



Mobiles services - Some are washers, some express, some detailing. We have confused things even more.



The line between car washing, express, auto detailing or anywhere in between is hopelessly blurred. The customers doesn't know the difference and they will get a different answer each time they ask the question.



Honestly though there is no one to blame. The market for auto detailing is small. Increasing your hourly rate without decreasing the time you spend shrinks that market. You may not like what the other guy does or how they do it. I doubt he cares much about what you think. Your market is out there, go get it.



Poor quality is bad and comes from all. A great service is wonderful whether it's a car wash, express cleaning or full balls out auto detailing. The right service done right is perfect.
 
Spilchy said:
Here is an advertisement for a detailer in my neighborhood. Now tell me who gives a better image of what a detailer should be; me or this guy? This is what the public thinks of when it comes to who exactly is a detailer and the impression they are left with. This is why folks don't like to pay good money for a detail or understand why they should. This is what I mean when I say I bring my professionalism from my career as an Operations Manager and help to elevate the industry with my weekend detailing business. (I have "X" out the names):



My name is XXXXX i'm 27 i detail cars for 9 years i've worked for XXXXX BMW,Qualaty Auto Body,i worked on Bmw,Mercedes,Ifinity,Jaguar,Porche, Lexus,Aston Martin for any question contact me at: XXX XXX XXXX



This is a fellow professional in the industry. This is what the public thinks about detailers. This is why friends of the family looked at me like I was crossed eyed when I said I wanted to open up my own detailing business. "You want to wash cars for a living?!" That's what I got. Never mind I have almost 10 years experience in office administration such as payroll, benefits, insurance, bookeeping, invoicing, IT work, lawyer / accountant relationships, etc...



Many of the professional detailers on this board "work out of the trunk of their car" or van or truck, just as I work out of the trunk of my Jetta station wagon with my sandwich board sign to go at the foot of the driveway and professionaly designed and printed tri fold brochures, business cards, invoices, inspection sheets and check-off sheets. I leave the customer with a 2 page print out on how to maintain their finish and properly wash their car; complete with recommended products and procedures.



So, I stand by what I said; that weekend guys like me (and Joe and Sean and others here but who don't post) work to give detailers a good image and understand what it means to run a small business with a focus on customer satisfaction, stellar results and tolerate nothing less than "Autopian standards" of professionalism.
Click to expand...



All that you do is probably why you can charge a premium price and stay busy. Sounds like you're kicking butt and taking names. I agree, you sound as if you are setting yourself apart from the competition.



By the way, I also am loving Aquawax.



Sam
 
ebpcivicsi said:
Happens to me on 90% of details, only I don't invoice. :D



I show up, detail, they ask how much, then pay--they typically tip too. :nixweiss
Click to expand...



That's pretty much how it goes for me too. I send invoices maybe 25% of the time. Most guys just come out, say "awesome!" and ask how much they owe.
 
Lets put it this way. I LOVE a clean car, or else I wouldnt be here. But I LOVE being able to eat, bathe and use electricity more. And on my budget its one or the other
 
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