Pay scale detailers

compare your costs across service segments and then compare those costs to your customers.

Dealership service- $70-$120 per hour

corner garage-$50-$70 per hour

plumbers- $65 plus an hour



figure travel costs and time for mobile guys and location operating expenses for fixed locations (office staff, electricity, rent or mortage payment) Educate your customer as to why you need to charge a premium price for your service. Don't work for nothing but be fair to yourself and your customer.
 
what a terrible thread (not due to the OP)...unless i missed something, i take offense to the comments made about those of us that do detailing on the side and how it "hurts" the pros. that is ridiculous. make sure none of your products or detailing tools were made in China too, or you're "hurting" the economy while detailing as well. sounds pretty dumb, eh?



just to annoy the person arguing how detailers need to educate and charge more...i'm doing a full detail for someone tomorrow (2004 honda accord) and told them $50. that will more than cover my product expenses...the rest is done because i like doing it. why? BECAUSE I CAN.



carry on.
 
There seems to be alot of "pent up anger flowing" in this tread.



This might be good for us. Maybe start to distance the Pro's work and pay scale, part or full time, from the quick fix detailers (QFD). Personally i do not refer to car cleaners (QFD) as detailers.



This seems to be the wide spread case. Everyone is a detailer. This is the problem with our industry. We will not get any satisfaction, until people realize there is a difference. And i do not see it coming for a long time. For every thousand people, you will have one that knows the difference.



One of the major causes of this is the product companys. I started in the industry almost 20 years ago. I have seen most companys overstate and lie about their products, what they can do and people bought into this miracle fix.



With the introduction of Armour All and other VP you no longer needed to clean anything, just spray it and it looked clean. (Don't get me started on solvent based). Everyone can clean a car in an hour and look like a pro.



Then we get to wax and sealants. Removes, hides, lasts forever(one on ebay right now). Most never worked.



This is cause of many problems. Why pay someone to do it right, when the QFD can do it three times for that price.



Until the customer realizes there is a difference in work, it is a losing battle. Get what your area will pay for your good work.



This debate about plumbers. Most pros on this board will make more than the average plumber. Not the plumber rate but more than the guy slingn' s***.



Oh and to the newer guys. Be thankful for this and other sites. You have a good understanding of what works and how to do it. And companys that actually live up to the hype.
 
Grimm said:
I'm sorry, but 99% of all people are in business to make money, not service people's needs. They see a need, and they take advantage of it to make money.
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And the remaining 1% understand that the primary reason why they are in business is the meet and exceed the needs and expectations of their customers.



When you begin to improve your image, you will begin to improve your pay scale.
 
Grimm said:
Frank, no disrespect, but I have reread your posts more than once and still can't figure out what your point is.
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Maybe this will help. Here is a word-for-word summary of my posts. Still can't figure it out?



When it comes to pricing their detailing services, most detailers are their own worst enemy. Just look around. It is easy to see that way too many detailers do not understand the true value of this high dollar luxury service. Many just see it as a way to make quick money.

And as long as these detailers continue to think about detailing as a way to make money, not much is going to change in the minds of the customer.



It is the detailer who needs to be educated and change the way they think. Not the customer. The customer already knows what is necessary and what is not. And a smart customer knows the difference between paying someone to perform a service because they are only in business to make money compared to a business that provides a necessary and timely service. Detailers need to become educated and change. Not customers.



Detailing for profit should not be done only to make money on the side. That really does not do very much to help the image of detailers. Too many detailers running around focused on satisfying their own needs, rather than being completely focused on meeting the needs of the customer. These detailers should have figured it out by now that it is much better to do it right and focus on the customer or not do it at all.



The reason why a detailer should go out there and provide professional detailing services should always be to satisfy the needs of the customer, not their own needs.



The low pay scale of detailers, like it or not is constantly being unified by the unprofessional image being presented to the public by those detailers only providing their service as a way to make money on the side. That is the topic at hand and that is the point of my comments.



The goal is to meet and exceed the needs and expectations of your your customers.



When you begin to improve your image, you will begin to improve your pay scale.
 
Maybe this will help. Here is a word-for-word summary of my posts. Still can't figure it out?



When it comes to pricing their detailing services, most detailers are their own worst enemy. Just look around. It is easy to see that way too many detailers do not understand the true value of this high dollar luxury service. Many just see it as a way to make quick money.

And as long as these detailers continue to think about detailing as a way to make money, not much is going to change in the minds of the customer. As I said before, 99% of people in business do it for money, not any other reason. Sure a lot of detailers say they love doing it, but servicing the customers needs is not the sole reason they are doing it. And I don't see how a detailer gets a bad image just because he's doing it to make money, when every other business is also out to make money.



It is the detailer who needs to be educated and change the way they think. Not the customer. The customer already knows what is necessary and what is not. And a smart customer knows the difference between paying someone to perform a service because they are only in business to make money compared to a business that provides a necessary and timely service. Detailers need to become educated and change. Not customers. Why does the detailer need to be educated? Again, you can't compare a necessary service like plumbing to a "luxury" like detailing. Detailers don't need to change the way they think, they just need to do like any successful business and provide good service.



Detailing for profit should not be done only to make money on the side. That really does not do very much to help the image of detailers. Too many detailers running around focused on satisfying their own needs, rather than being completely focused on meeting the needs of the customer. These detailers should have figured it out by now that it is much better to do it right and focus on the customer or not do it at all. Again, people doing detailing on the side has absolutely NO bearing on the image of detailers. It's the hacks that do a crappy job that gives the bad image. Being a jerk, being late, giving a crappy detail are the things that give a bad image. It has nothinig to do with whether you do it 40 hours a week, or on the weekend!



The reason why a detailer should go out there and provide professional detailing services should always be to satisfy the needs of the customer, not their own needs. Satisfying the customer should always be the focus, bot not the "reason" for providing the service. People provide services to make money, no other reason.



The low pay scale of detailers, like it or not is constantly being unified by the unprofessional image being presented to the public by those detailers only providing their service as a way to make money on the side. That is the topic at hand and that is the point of my comments. Again, your logic doesn't make any sense. Do you really think people will pay twice as much for a detail because the guy does it as his full time job over a guy that does it on the weekend? I'm pretty sure that the majority of people are going to want the best job at the lowest price. Sure, if detailers got together under collusion and decided to all charge $100 an hour, the customer would have no choice. But I can bet you that you would lose a lot of business because it's not a necessity like plumbing. There are a lot of people that do weekend mechanic work for friends and such. Do you think mechanics could be making more money if there weren't these weekend mechanics giving them a bad image?



The goal is to meet and exceed the needs and expectations of your your customers. Of course, no one ever said you shouldn't.



When you begin to improve your image, you will begin to improve your pay scale.Again, improve your image all you want, it will have no real impact on pay. It's a luxury service that a select few are willing to pay for, nothing more. Like any other business, if you want more customers and to make more money per hour, then give your customers the best service around. It's all about supply and demand. If you provide a service that people feel they need, you can command a higher dollar.
 
Just to throw in something from a non-pro, who faces the same part-time / weekend warrior mentality in my business. Your problem is the guy who puts the '$29.95 full interior and exterior detail' sign in his front yard. Whether he has a single client or not!

But don't worry, he will be out of 'business' soon. Unfortunately, someone will step right in and replace him. But they create the impression that detailing is cheap-no matter how good (or more likely bad) they are or if they have a single client.

I get people calling on my clients giving them prices that I could do, but never would. The good clients understand the difference, the ones I don't want chase the price and get burned over and over.

You have to qualify your prospects. And tht's more than 'do they have a car and have the money?'. It's more of do they understand (or can I help them ot understand) the value of what I do over the $29.95 details.

Becasue it's an easy business to get into, there will always be competition pulling the industry down, you just have to stick to the value of what you do.
 
WOW, I haven't checked in here for awhile, some interesting posts. I think with repsect to what I was saying professional detailers are underpaid, grant it some get premium prices but when you compare actual time involved in a quality detail, we could do better. I feel I'm doing a good job educating the public, doing seminars, making a DVD, speaking at various organizations, but I feel I should charge more. I get $225 for an average size car, $50-75 more for oversize, because I'm in a competeitive market, Most of my customers know what they are getting when they hire me. However I still get price shoppers that focus on price only. Conclusion, if we each do our part on education, eventually the scale will be raised. gary
 
Gary,



This is an interesting discussion. Thanks for starting it. A question for you, at $225, what does that break out to hourly? Also, when you do oversize, does it compute to the same hourly rate?



Additionally, it seems you are doing a lot on education, hats off to you!
 
Most cars not in too bad shape I can do in 4-5 hours, breaks down to $45 anhour, larger SUV's take longer, but I get $50 -$75 more, breaks down to about the same. gary
 
one issue that hasn't been addressed is PC vs rotary. many detailers use a PC for defect removal. It takes a lot longer to do a detail with a PC vs a rotary. If you step up to a rotary you could save 1,2 or 3 hours and charge the same price. Sometimes working smarter is better. Also inform the customer the difference between a quick wax job and a paint reconditioning full detail.
 
I think this is a great thread, since it really does drive home the point that there is a gap between the level of service that can be provided and the expectations of clients. As discussed in this and other threads, the average car owner thinks a washed and waxed car is a clean car and that is good enough. These are the people that gasp at rates and merely choose a detailer on price. (My opinion is I don't see anything wrong with that, it is an open market economy) Give them the service and a rate to their expectation level. If they want only a $79 detail either give them what they want or move on and find a client who understands the value of your service. There is no sense in losing sleep over it. (though if you can, educate them, build value, inform them of your process and why you do each step and what that means to them)



The wash and wax detailer isn't stealing your customer, since this is not the market you like to cater to. Picture your favorite customers.....there are others out there just like them that don't know about you, those are the customers you want to spend the lion share of your time with. If someone is just in it to make a quick buck (and the customer expects more) like Kompressornsc said " they'll be out of business soon" .



And Mirrorman has a great point, but I think the word "image" is confusing. By image it may just mean level of professionalism, are your prompt, knowledgeable and send your customers away feeling good. Did you meet and exceed their expectation level? If you do, they will be your customers for life. They will also be your greatest referral source.





I will disclose that I am not a pro-detailer (I did detail for a shop as a summer job during college one year). I detail my families' cars and that is it. It is very therapeutic for me. By day I am a sales and marketing guy (internet, advertising, websites etc) I too in my day to day run into the same challenges....there is always someone else who is willing to do it for less. (as the saying goes you get what you pay for) They want a website or advertising etc and frankly now-a-days practically anyone can produce a website etc so there is a ton of competition. So I understand the frustration.





I am in the midst of reading a great book and I highly reccomend it. "Book Yourself Solid, the fastest, easist and most reliable system for getting more clients than you can handle even if you hate sales and marketing" by Michael Port.



on pg. 5 He states dump your clients (your duds) goes on to state, work with the clientel you want to work with and let the others work with someone else.
 
Just to get people thinking, here are a few quotes from an excellent economics book called "Economics in One Lesson". It is by Henry Hazlitt. The first one, "Prices are fixed through the relationship of supply and demand and in turn affect supply and demand. When people want more of an article, they offer more for it. The price goes up". Here is another, "Prices are determined by supply and demand, and demand is determined by how intensely people want a commodity and what they have to offer in exchange for it". Here is the last one. It relates to how we have been comparing detailing to plumbing and other trade businesses; "But the central error, as we have hinted, comes from looking at only one industry, or even at several industries in turn, as if each of them existed in isolation. Each of them in fact exists in relation to all the others, and every important decision made in it is affected by and affects the decisions made in all others". I am not going to try and explain these quotes, because everyone has their own interpretation of them. It just adds some fact to this discussion and some fruit for thought.
 
Being professional also means knowing how to detail. You can know all the business ins and outs to sell yourself...but plain and simple if your work sucks no one will care about you're cool banners or equipment that make you look professional.
 
Joshua312 said:
Being professional also means knowing how to detail. You can know all the business ins and outs to sell yourself...but plain and simple if your work sucks no one will care about you're cool banners or equipment that make you look professional.
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I don't disagree with you to a point, but competence at your skill means you're a good technician, nothing more, and there is nothing wrong with that. But running a business means more, putting aside the cool banners and equipment, although some of that equipment is part of the difference between week enders like me and pros (ie Little Green Machines vs a proper extractor, real steam cleaners vs the Shark you buy at Target, etc.)



One of the things that was telling was in regards to the guy in England who seems to be making alot of money detailing. There was alot of hostile response to him, as in, "I do a better job than he", when in fact, it seems most people could stand to learn a thing or two from how he markets his business. It seems he isn't hurting for business nor is he underbidding work. If I was trying to build a detailing business, I would sure as heck try to understand what he does that enables him to build his client base without much regard to his costs. So, if you produce better results than him, why is he getting the press and the high-dollar business? That's what I'd be trying to figure out.



I don't know if its the final word on building a business, but its main point is that there is more to building a successful business than being a good technician.



Maybe some of the pros should chime in.
 
Sam,



I'm not diagreeing with you at all. I agree it takes both good technical skills and business skills to successfully run a business. But if you only have the business skills...what good do they do you to sell your service to something you can't even provide.



It's like Maaco selling themselves as a great paint job company, where we would be seeing car show fanatics going to get their custom paint job. When in fact we know as well as Maaco that their service is catered to the person looking for a quick fix at an affordable price. Maaco isn't hurting the automotive re-paint business. They are merely filling a need in the market. So what is wrong with me being a part-time detailer...having all the products a professional has, business cards, professional image and work ethic, etc..? I am by no means providing a "Maaco" like service in my detailing...but I am filling the need of my customers at a price that I see fit for my demographic. I don't see why people are complaining so much about the price we are able to charge or for that matter not able to charge? I charge what I need to make a profit (the profit I desire), no more, no less...



And I think it's easy to understand why the guy in England can charge so much, because he has the available market. He is in an area where people can afford to have such a service at that cost. Look around here, how many people would be willing or able to pay his prices? I know in my area there are many wealthy people however they are more interested in investing and saving than spending it on having a clean car.



He is able to cater to the rich and famous in a small area compared to the United States have 50 states where the rich and famous can be located. Obviously if you compare California detailing prices to mine you are going to get different rates due to the cost of living/income/etc...This isn't rocket science people
 
As a side note and my personal opinion, Mirrorman does an outstanding job with his marketing efforts. He can charge the rates he does since he is seen as an expert, he provides "educational" materials - cd's, How to guides, clinics etc... a potential customer sees that and say this guys knows his stuff. I know if I needed a car done, I would feel comfortable with the guy that trains others on how to detail. Also by giving them some info and them seeing the process, they may just say , this looks like too much for me I will just have mirrorman do it.



Another example is the Meguire's Wednesday nights during the summer. They provide training and info on their products, which in turn raises awareness and the competency level of all who attend. They also sell their product including their expensive stuff becasue of this too.



That's not to say by not doing so that one is not knowledgeable or an expert in the autodetail field.



There are many, many others here that "Experts" even many of the non-pro part-time / weekend detailers. Just look at the results and the pics. Every time I stop by autotopia, I am amazed and in awe at the work members do! (and thankful for them sharing their process and knowledge as to how they got their results)



A parting thought....since the idea of this topic seemed to be, how do detailers increase their perceived value of their service so they can charge rates in-line with the service they provide.



Seek out other detailers pro, part-time and weekenders (even the wash and wax guys) in your area and show them the light. Share information , educate, form a local association to discuss the challenges faced, collectively. So you can raise awareness. You may even have fun spending time with others that share your passion. :hifive:



Imagine more detailers within your DMA (direct market area) spreading the word. Just a thought?!
 
MX823 said:
A parting thought....since the idea of this topic seemed to be, how do detailers increase their perceived value of their service so they can charge rates in-line with the service they provide.



Seek out other detailers pro, part-time and weekenders (even the wash and wax guys) in your area and show them the light. Share information , educate, form a local association to discuss the challenges faced, collectively. So you can raise awareness. You may even have fun spending time with others that share your passion. :hifive:



Imagine more detailers within your DMA (direct market area) spreading the word. Just a thought?!
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More good thoughts!!!
 
MX823,



Just a note to once again thank you for adding your good thoughts to the topic. I especially like the idea of local detailing professionals getting together with other pros in their own area. That sounds like one of the best ways to begin to change the way potential clients view our industry.



Thanks again and please keep those good posts coming!



Best regards,
 
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