Paul's new Wax has been introduced to the UK

superstring- I'll have to read through that when I have some time. Heh heh, some people's interest in this stuff sure exceed mine! I never even got around to trying a #16/476S mix...
 
superstring said:
Hmm....:think: I don't know what the problem is with silicone anyway. Sure you don't want it floating around the bodyshop environment, but, when used properly, it can impart many positive attributes to a wax formula. But I guess for some it remains the devil incarnate! :confused: Zymol being one manufacturer who launched a (unjustifiable IMHO) campaign against silicone. If my information is correct, looks a little sleazy, huh?



PS, not that it matters, but the ex-Zymol distributor I know now makes his own wax - Victoria Wax - maybe you've heard of it ;)
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Yes...and I have a lot of respect for them, as well as Swissvax. But liking them and believing them can (and should be) two different things. I blindly trust the content that each maker tells us that their products have; Until confirmed facts are known or published. At that point each entity will either earn my reinforced praise or scorn. However, I'm not going to start dating Victoria because her prices are better, and if she gossips that Zymmie(ol) has implants and that her parts are real without......(imagine the end.....wanna keep it clean yknow........Right Accumulator pal....But you still should buy Vintaaaaghhe *Heh Heh* lollllll)!
 
I read *so* many negative claims about competitors' products that any more I really just don't pay as much attention to the *info* as I do to the *source*. And even sources that I like and respect...well...I can hold them suspect when the subject is their competition. I've quit :rolleyes: over this stuff as I'd end up with a headache from doing it so often :D



Superstring- I ran across that thread with a link to the Menzerna statements about silicone yesterday, but I didn't bookmark it :o If I get a chance I'll try to find it again so you can check it out.



lbls1- I strongly suspect you wouldn't quit using the Vintage if it *does* contain silicone, right? I mean seriously...your paint looks good with the stuff, you like using it, you like the beading/protection..so what's the big deal :confused: If you (heaven forbid!) ever need a repaint and some "silicone impregnation" is a problem, then you just have to do it right and have a bare-metal repaint :D
 
ive read on the mequires forum mike philips stated silicone is perfectly fine. in anything as long as you dont use it in a body shop. your fine.
 
Just to clarify a couple of things I said vis-a-vis silicone, Zymol and Vic Wax. David W. from Vic Wax had the analysis done on the Zymol sample long before Vic Wax was up and running. He NEVER used that info to slag Zymol publically and promote his "silicone free" wax and I doubt he has any reason whatsoever to make that analysis public now.



And, for the record, I have absolutely no affiliation with Vic Wax, other than the fact I did some pre-production testing for David back in the late '90s and just happened to be privy to the Zymol/silicone information.



Accumulator said:
Here's the link to the Menzerna-on-silicone issue: Australian International Trade Links Pty Ltd



On the thread where I found that, rydawg posted that he'd run into the silicone-permeation issue on some cars that'd be quick-'n'-dirty prepped for auctions.
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Thanks for posting that link, Accumulator. It's ringing a bell and I'm going to (re)read it when I have time. However, (speculating here) it's my understanding there are many kinds of silicone, some benign in this context, some not.
 
Accumulator said:
lbls1- I strongly suspect you wouldn't quit using the Vintage if it *does* contain silicone, right? I mean seriously...your paint looks good with the stuff, you like using it, you like the beading/protection..so what's the big deal :confused: If you (heaven forbid!) ever need a repaint and some "silicone impregnation" is a problem, then you just have to do it right and have a bare-metal repaint :D
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Good buddy,

I guess I wouldn't since I have an investment in it but.........I would be a bit upset, because I trust(ed) zymol in their description of their premier waxes as being all natural. Zymol makes a disclosure on the composition of all of their consumer waxes in their owner's manual that you can request. Now, I am not that naive to think that all of what's in those jars are wax. Wax (especially white carnauba) has to go thru a manufacturing process which involves the use of chemicals (emulsifiers sp) in order to produce the final product. So while I am not that interested in Zymol's intellectual properties in terms of manufacturing wax (well but I did find out the industry standards in how white carnauba is manufactured), what I am interested in is that the resulting product contains exactly what was specified in the advertisement and owner's spec. To that end, I feel that what Zymol has described in their waxes has been fulfilled. Moreover, it will take more than the heresay from users that have changed ship to make me believe otherwise. OOps...war and peace again...sorry. Thanks for the compliment.....and if I can help it I won't be planning for a repaint *heh heh* Lolllll!!



Superstring;

Not to worry; any discussion of opinion is worth sharing. For the record I'm not affiliated with Victoria or Zymol or SV either!
 
lbls1- Yeah, I understand where you're coming from, and that "all natural" bit is (IMO) always a little of a stretch when we're talking about stuff like this.



Superstring- Yeah, *all* silicone simply cannot be that awful or I woulda run into *some* kind of issue with it over the years. Seems to me that "silicone" is just Menzerna's Bete Noire of the moment. But it was interesting to hear that it might be part of some of those Zymol products.
 
From what I understand, quality of silicone from the best to second is a huge difference in performance and safety. Most companies who formulate their own products using silicone are not springing for the best available ingredient and settle for the affordable option, perhaps not realizing what difference there is.
 
Accumulator said:
lbls1- Yeah, I understand where you're coming from, and that "all natural" bit is (IMO) always a little of a stretch when we're talking about stuff like this.



Superstring- Yeah, *all* silicone simply cannot be that awful or I woulda run into *some* kind of issue with it over the years. Seems to me that "silicone" is just Menzerna's Bete Noire of the moment. But it was interesting to hear that it might be part of some of those Zymol products.
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Yup Accumulator. As well, all waxes have go thru manufacturing; Thus the claim of "all natural from the stalk" is far fetched for all makers...from Mothers, to Zymol, to Swissvax, to Pinnacle. Now, "primarily natural" we can have a laugh with........
 
Where does Zymol actually say or have ever said their wax is silicone free? On the Zymol website you can see a list of some of the ingredients in the wax, but this isn't a definitive list and there is most certainly a playing with ingredient names going on too. Just because they don't mention it, it doesn't mean that it's not there.



For instance:

- Montan Oil. Have a search, what is it? One Zymol reseller lists it as the sap from the German Coal Black Evergreen tree again what is that? no one else seems to know what it is either.

- Banana Oil. Banana perfumed oil, an oil made from bananas or Isoamyl Acetate, a solvent for wax among other things?

- White Carnauba Sap. Carnauba wax is an excretion from the leaves of the carnauba plant, but now is seems it's sap gets used too, or could it just be a clever name for palm oil?



What about products that say they have polymer technolgy or are polymers, does that mean that these are bad too then? After all, the silicones that tend to be used in waxes and detailing products are also polymers.
 
Accumulator said:
Here's the link to the Menzerna-on-silicone issue: Australian International Trade Links Pty Ltd



On the thread where I found that, rydawg posted that he'd run into the silicone-permeation issue on some cars that'd be quick-'n'-dirty prepped for auctions.
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It was the low budget cheap products they have and use a low grade silicone fluids to hide blemishes and boost the shine. Even some tire shines have some silicone oils in them and once get embedded to the paint they are a pain. I even had a few customers that were using Black Magic tire shine and it made the worst disaster. I have to use Megs Super Degreaser full strength and it still neautrilizes the degreaser. It takes a few tries to remove the oils. Megs SD is strong stuff and to disolve the cleaning action that fast is not good.



As for silicones in waxes and sealants, there are all sorts of silicones and MOST of them all use some type of silicone fluids in them. Most of them do not have adverse problems with paint, unless it is a cheaply made product looking to make a quick and fast shine. Those new car sealants they sell for $500 are the worst ones.



When you have a car treated with the cheap azz low quality silicones and whatever else they have in their waxes/sealants, you will know. It will dust crazy, tiny scratches will take forever to remove, and the heat from the pad will cause smearing.



For waxes and sealants, there are hundreds of silicones they use and to choose from. It's the quality of the silicones that matters. Some silicones are named different technical names and are not called silicones.
 
Bence and I have discussed this topic before :D He linked me to some good info but I forget the source at present :confused:



rwdawg- Thanks for contributing to this, your first-hand experience makes me glad I haven't run across anything treated with the nasty silicone-rich stuff.
 
Because our skin is more absorbent than I like... why abuse our organism even more? I wear gloves and a mask when I have to touch IPA and several other chemicals, including dusty polishes. Long term damages are not my thing. Especially nano-particles (and smaller) are dangerous.
 
Bence, you do have a VERY good point!



I know a person that is alergic to any silicone sprays for tires. He breaks out in hives and his throat swells. He lectures me all the time to wear a mask and gloves.
 
Regarding MSDSs, does anyone know if a company, such as Zymol, is required by law to produce this info on request or is it only required from those deemed to be manufacturing "hazardous" products?
 
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