Paint Thickness Readers

512detail

512detail

New member
I am looking into getting one of these tools. I have passed on a few jobs already this year because I wasn't sure if the paint would even be safe to polish or not.

I plan to save up this year (since this is a part time gig for me) and maybe even use my tax return to buy one too.

I have done a few searches but wanted to just ask what is suggested I should be looking into buying.


What do you all recommend?

What should I stay away from (if anything) based on your experience?

Thanks in advance.

-Brandt K.
 
I have one of the cheap ones from eBay that I've been using for about 9 months. I had to recalibrate it just twice(which takes only a few seconds) and I'm happy with it. I had someone with a PosiTest DFT follow me around and we took measurements in the same spots and mine was off by a couple microns here and there but was overall accurate. It's cheap but it is accurate enough and much better than working blind. If I did this full-time I would probably pick up a nicer one.

I also know a few people who use/have used one and they like it too - from his pictures I know Sizzle Chest uses it and Zach McGovern originally posted a review of it on Autogeek some time ago. Some people get theirs DOA or have calibration issues which I'm sure does not happen as much with the Delfeskos.

CM8801FN Paint Thickness Gauge - Affordable for Everyone! - Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum
 
PTG will give you general ideal of how much material is there but.... If your trying to use it for individual scratches you might not want to spend the money. The problem its impossible to measure how deep on scratch is and only the material around it. This can be a guide but are you going to do if you want the scratch done? No matter what the gauge says.... and if all else fails.. Todd Helme told me once "if you never burnt anything your not trying hard enough"
 
thanks for the input so far (and the link)...I really just want to try to step up my game and as far as individual scratches, I understand what you mean Jsmooth.... I just want to step up my game so to speak and gaining knowledge of the paint thickness in general will help me test my limits/abilities...my friend is fixing to buy a beater and I may end up burning through it- lol

I've only been polishing cars for a little over two years now. I could definitely improve. And the reader mentioned above I could buy asap at that kind of price.
 
512detail- I'd stay away from PhaseII. Mine is an utter PIA to use, I simply hate it. Even sent it back for a checkup as I couldn't imagine it was supposed to be so finicky about how the probe is put in contact with the paint (I've used other ETGs, so I thought I knew what to expect).
 
I just got a highline paint thickness gauge from ag during the sale saved 50 bucks. Just learning how to use it now and I can tell you it will open your eyes. Makes the invisible .. Visible.
I can compare it too looking at an electrical signal with a meter and than looking at it with a scope.
Their is a lot of information
 
Michael Stoops
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Join DateOct 2004LocationTrabuco Canyon, CAPosts20,854 Rep Power1128

[h=2]Re: I'm Looking for a Cheap Paint Thickness Gauge[/h]
A quick disclaimer first: the following are my personal opinions only and not an endorsement by Meguiar's. Just so we're clear on that.


The CM8801FN that has been recommended to you, Davey, is indeed a very good PTG. But the link you gave also showed another option, this unit which is the one I use and several detailers I know here in the US also use. Calibration is pretty straightforward and I've checked it against PTGs costing several hundreds of dollars and it returned the same measurements. At this price point, and even at several hundred dollars, you're going to get a device that reads the total film thickness - primer, color and clear as a single measurement. You have to shell out some pretty serious money, usually four figures, to get one that will read individual layers. That's great if you're doing a lot of heavy duty sanding and are routinely taking off a lot of material on a variety of unknown paints. For a detailer doing more light duty paint correction, those might be more than you really need for day to day work.

The unit I linked to reads both ferrous and non-ferrous substrates (well, basically it reads steel and aluminum, as is common at this price point - again, you have spend a ton of money to get a decent PTG that will read on carbon fiber, urethane, etc). This one will automatically differentiate between the two substrates so there's no need to change settings depending on the vehicle or panel. One feature I really like is that it automatically gives you an average of the readings you take. For example: I'll commonly take 10 readings in a small area, maybe 6" square, and the tool will immediately give me the average of those readings. I can then correct that area, take 10 more readings and get an average calculation following the process. This is much more useful than taking a single reading, polishing, and taking another reading that was hopefully in the exact same spot. Trust me, it won't be in the exact same spot, and that can quickly skew readings. It's not uncommon for the 10 readings taken in a tight area to vary by more than a 1/10 of a mil, so taking an average is very helpful. That variance can lead to situations where a single reading before and after polishing, or even sanding, will show a higher number after the work than before. Take 10 readings, observe the average, clear the memory. Do the work, take 10 more readings, and you've got a much better picture of what's really going on.

We used this unit very heavily during our recent NXT Training Program and it was a real eye opener when gauging the amount of material removed by aggressive DAMF compounding, light DA sanding and aggressive hand sanding. ​
 
Here's a question re: thickness readings. Can any device tell you how much clear versus base coat, or in the event of a repaint can it differentiate between layer thicknesses versus overall thickness? My car is a good example. It's now had the pass rear 1/4 repainted twice since factory. Will anything read the various layer thicknesses?
 
Yes, there are some devices that will give you individual layers. They are pricey.

What I do on OEM paints is measure the door jamb then the other areas, which gives you an idea of how much clear was sprayed on - it's not exact but has always been enough to give me an educated guess. You can also always tell when an area was repainted, but there are too many variables to determine the different layers on that part without one of the more sophisticated gauges.
 
I have the one from Zach's review on AG and i've been very pleased with it so far. Helps me make a much more educated guess especially when wet sanding.
 
Ccrew said:
Here's a question re: thickness readings. Can any device tell you how much clear versus base coat, or in the event of a repaint can it differentiate between layer thicknesses versus overall thickness? My car is a good example. It's now had the pass rear 1/4 repainted twice since factory. Will anything read the various layer thicknesses?
Click to expand...

To be clear, all the cheaper gauges only measure Total Material Thickness - with an error -

Its all of it - Primer, Sealer-( if there is one), paint, clearcoat, and that again is the total number in Microns, you are looking at...

Only the most expensive DeFelsko gauge can break it down into individual layers, but again, its is NOT going to say, this layer is primer, this layer is clear, etc... It is only going to tell you how much in microns is in each layer from the bottom to the top...

What the gauge is good for is showing you a spot that has a lot of material thickness in it (which could indicate body work, paintwork), and going over the entire vehicle, where the Material Thickness is pretty normal...

Again, you are measuring Total Material Thickness - not just the paint and/or clearcoat...

So, the gauge to me, is good for measuring - always in microns - how much material on the top is being removed, compared to what was on there when I measured it before starting that spot...

There are articles out there that say that there is always so much clearcoat on top, or that this number is a good " average " to use to determine how much clearcoat is on there, etc..

But again, who wrote it, how did they come to those conclusions, did they get absolute accurate information from every automaker telling them exactly how much paint they use on each vehicle since what year, etc...

No one is ever going to give you that information - why would they??

HighLine is a pretty good, reliable one, in my experiences...
Dan F
 
Stokdgs said:
To be clear, all the cheaper gauges only measure Total Material Thickness - with an error -

Its all of it - Primer, Sealer-( if there is one), paint, clearcoat, and that again is the total number in Microns, you are looking at...

Only the most expensive DeFelsko gauge can break it down into individual layers, but again, its is NOT going to say, this layer is primer, this layer is clear, etc... It is only going to tell you how much in microns is in each layer from the bottom to the top...

What the gauge is good for is showing you a spot that has a lot of material thickness in it (which could indicate body work, paintwork), and going over the entire vehicle, where the Material Thickness is pretty normal...

Again, you are measuring Total Material Thickness - not just the paint and/or clearcoat...

So, the gauge to me, is good for measuring - always in microns - how much material on the top is being removed, compared to what was on there when I measured it before starting that spot...

There are articles out there that say that there is always so much clearcoat on top, or that this number is a good " average " to use to determine how much clearcoat is on there, etc..

But again, who wrote it, how did they come to those conclusions, did they get absolute accurate information from every automaker telling them exactly how much paint they use on each vehicle since what year, etc...

No one is ever going to give you that information - why would they??

HighLine is a pretty good, reliable one, in my experiences...
Dan F
Click to expand...


There has also been a lot of decision about the inaccuracies with the PosiTector 200 B3 Advanced PTG when reading individual layers on metal panels. I got the below from a post by C Charles.

The following is a Public Service Advisory on behalf of Nick Chapman and Christopher Brown:

Those who follow Nick and Christopher are probably aware that they (along with Jason Killmer) are working on a project at Gas Monkey Garage for the TV show "Fast 'n Loud."

Late last week, I was contacted by Nick asking if I had used the DeFelsko Positector 200B/Advanced much on steel substrates, as he was having issues with very inconsistent readings from his gauge on their project. As I hadn't done much testing of my gauge on steel, I quickly ran an experiment and found that I too was getting inconsistent results when repeatedly measuring an isolated spot (demonstrating a variance of +/- 10 µm) when using the multi-layer modes. Others I've spoken to since have also observed similar unreliable behavior from their copies of the tool.

Evidently, despite the claims in DeFelsko's provided product copy, the company's support representatives state that this gauge is NOT designed to be used on metal substrates, nor was it intended for use in the automotive realm.

To make matters even worse, Nick reported that the ultrasonic couplant gel (MSDS here: 300 Multiple Choices) had etched the single stage finish they were attempting to measure.

The point of all of this is to caution anyone who owns or is considering purchasing this tool; depending on your needs and expectations, this gauge may not be able to provide results in every scenario, and the manufacturer could be unable to offer specific support depending on the issues you run into. As with most paint thickness meters, it should never be relied upon for definitive measurements, but treated as a rough estimate of the finish being worked on. It is also a good idea to test the couplant gel in an inconspicuous area before using it, in order to avoid causing damage.
 
I have the same one as Detail Impressions linked to.
There is about half a dozen that look the exact same on Amazon, and I just bought the cheapest.
I think it was about $120.

Like someone said earlier, it doesn't give you the thickness of each layer, but only the prohibitively expensive ones can do that.

Mine is nice and accurate, and gives me a general idea of what is going on. You can see it in use here:
http://www.autopia.org/forums/car-detailing/183605-report-pics-showng-clearcoat-removed-machine-polishing.html
 
heisenberg said:
Yes, there are some devices that will give you individual layers. They are pricey.

What I do on OEM paints is measure the door jamb then the other areas, which gives you an idea of how much clear was sprayed on - it's not exact but has always been enough to give me an educated guess. You can also always tell when an area was repainted, but there are too many variables to determine the different layers on that part without one of the more sophisticated gauges.
Click to expand...

Thanks, good info all. Yeah, I know that the 1/4 on mine was a full repaint, but this time since it wasn't that old (1 year later and garage ornament car) they didn't panel blend the door. So I was looking and hadn't found any device that could output that kind of mixed up data. Overall thickness sure, but layers is what I had no luck with.
 
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