Paint Hardness

H

harleychief

New member
I'm new to this so of course I've been surfing and reading. One thing I see a lot of is mention of the hardness of the paint. I'm confused :help: How do you know how hard a paint is? Is it just experience? Is there a list or scale somewhere that shows a car brands' paint hardness?

I've got a few vehicles that I need to get after - 2011 Ford F-350; 2006 Jeep Wrangler (both white); 2013 Toyota Avalon and a couple of newer Harleys. Can anyone help with these?

Thanks for any advice!
 
F series paint is nice to work with. Id call it medium.
Jeeps are normally hard and a general pain in every aspect.
Toyotas are usually pretty soft and sometimes will marr just from towel wiping.
Harleys...well..I just hope its not Vivid Black. That's one of the most difficult and aggravating colors to work with for any detailer. Otherwise they vary from color to color.
 
I had the same questions as you a year ago. After polishing several different paint systems I started to get the idea. A polish that works great and leaves a mirror finish on the Ford, may not work at all and leave a mess on the Toyota. This is why you need lots of "ammo for the arsenal". :)

In general mrclean81 is right on. A test spot will give you all the answers for your specific vehicles.
 
harleychief said:
I'm new to this so of course I've been surfing and reading. One thing I see a lot of is mention of the hardness of the paint. I'm confused :help: How do you know how hard a paint is? Is it just experience? Is there a list or scale somewhere that shows a car brands' paint hardness?

I've got a few vehicles that I need to get after - 2011 Ford F-350; 2006 Jeep Wrangler (both white); 2013 Toyota Avalon and a couple of newer Harleys. Can anyone help with these?

Thanks for any advice!
Click to expand...

We would like to know what your process will be to correct the paint on these vehicles, please..

Are you going to use a machine ? Which one ?

Do you have experience with that machine? How long?

Then if you have a machine or are getting one, we need to talk about the type of pad/s, foam or microfiber, and then we can help dial in a good compound for your vehicles..

Let us know !
Thanks !
Dan F
 
Stokdgs said:
We would like to know what your process will be to correct the paint on these vehicles, please..

Are you going to use a machine ? Which one ?

Do you have experience with that machine? How long?

Then if you have a machine or are getting one, we need to talk about the type of pad/s, foam or microfiber, and then we can help dial in a good compound for your vehicles..

Let us know !
Thanks !
Dan F
Click to expand...

Dan,
Good points.
Process: Wash with CG soap, claybar using a Med/Fine clay, then wash again.
I'm going to be using a PC DA polisher, this will be my first time with it. Since the white paint doesn't look too bad (with my untrained eye) I thought I would I'd use glaze then follow up with sealer then wax.

Because this is my first venture into doing detailing the right way I bought most of my chemicals and MF's from CG.

My experience level with the products is 0% (gotta start sometime). Maybe I'm off base here but I think my choice of what pad to use is going to be my biggest challenge.
 
OK I had to go look to see what CG products I had I've got V36 Polish, Wet Mirror glaze and Jet Seal 109 sealer. The vehicle is a 2006 White Jeep (soft top). So after the clay I thought I'd just go straight to the glaze, am I off base?
 
harleychief said:
I'm new to this so of course I've been surfing and reading. One thing I see a lot of is mention of the hardness of the paint. I'm confused :help: How do you know how hard a paint is? Is it just experience? Is there a list or scale somewhere that shows a car brands' paint hardness?

I've got a few vehicles that I need to get after - 2011 Ford F-350; 2006 Jeep Wrangler (both white); 2013 Toyota Avalon and a couple of newer Harleys. Can anyone help with these?

Thanks for any advice!
Click to expand...

Being that you're from Gulfport, I feel obliged to help :)! I'm from Biloxi :)! So basically the safest way to test how hard paint is would be by starting off with the least aggressive polishing combo. By that I mean a finishing pad with a finishing polish. By doing this, you can see how much correction you're getting with that combo and judge the paint hardness from there. Basically if you're getting a lot of correction, it's more than likely a soft paint. A little correction, probably medium and very little than it's hard.

A quick guide to paint hardness:

BMW (Euro), Mercedes, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Audi/VW *aka VAG paint*, etc. (hi-end cars basically) are all either ceramic or just silly-hard (I HATE VAG paint :D ).

Subaru, Nissan, Lexus, Toyota *though recently they've made Toyota paint pretty hard on some models*, Nissan and most other Asian cars are either butter-soft, just "soft", or sticky and soft (like Subarus!)

Ford, Chevy, Porsche *excluding later models with nitro paint*, GMC, etc. all fairly pleasant to work with, so medium.

These are my findings with cars here in Europe, but they may differ in the States. Like Jerez black BMW's have silly-soft paint in the US, but in Europe it's ridiculously hard!

Hope that helps and let me know if you have any questions!
 
harleychief said:
OK I had to go look to see what CG products I had I've got V36 Polish, Wet Mirror glaze and Jet Seal 109 sealer. The vehicle is a 2006 White Jeep (soft top). So after the clay I thought I'd just go straight to the glaze, am I off base?
Click to expand...

Hi Charlie !

The wash and claybar is always the way to start...

You will need a claybar lube - some claybars are ok using soap, and some will break down if used with soap..
I trust you have read about claybars and have an idea what they do and why they are needed, and how to use one...

If you are not going to correct the paint using a compound, then going straight to the Glaze would have to be your next step..

The cleaner the paint, the better these subsequent steps will adhere to it and hopefully increase the longevity of these last step products..

Normally, if a car is washed, clayed, and compounded with a medium cut pad, the glaze can be applied with something softer than a medium cut pad..

Now, you know, that a glaze is used to help fill in the defects that were not removed by compounding, right?

So, since you are skipping the step to correct via compounding, tell us what pad ( foam or microfiber?) you are going to use?

You are right - the white shades are great looking and it is harder to see defects in them unless the light is hitting it just right...

Perhaps sometime, as you get more familiar with the machine and products/use, you might want to learn more/talk about the compounding/correction stage..

Good luck with your project !
Dan F
 
spiralout462 said:
I had the same questions as you a year ago. After polishing several different paint systems I started to get the idea. A polish that works great and leaves a mirror finish on the Ford, may not work at all and leave a mess on the Toyota. This is why you need lots of "ammo for the arsenal". :)

In general mrclean81 is right on. A test spot will give you all the answers for your specific vehicles.
Click to expand...

Don't focus to much on paint hardness and softness, both are dependent on a lot of variables. Instead, as noted, focus on doing a test spot. Each paint will react differently, adapt your program to how it works.
 
Thanks everyone!
Wolfman - Thanks for the quick down and dirty on hardness

Dan - I'm going to be using foam pads for everything. You've been a font of knowledge!

Todd - I think you're right I'm going to test a section and using all the advice go at it from there.

Charlie
 
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