Paint Defect Filling? Please explain?
- Thread starter Catch-22
- Start date
C. Charles Hahn
CCH Auto Appearance, LLC
Catch-22 said:
When detailers refer to a product "filling" they are referring to oils and solvents that literally fill in minor below surface defects, giving the illusion that they have been removed from the finish.
In the vast majority of circumstances, at least for most detailers, this is not a desired effect because as of yet, these fillers are often extremely temporary, lasting anywhere from a few days to a few weeks before they wash away, and the defects will return. Detailers who offer paint correction want to remove defects permanently, not fill them temporarily. If dealing with a vehicle which has thin paint, or in cases where a temporary repair is specifically wanted, fillers can serve a purpose, but generally you will find that avoiding them is the advisable course of action.
Accumulator
Well-known member
C. Charles Hahn said:
OTOH, for people who, for whatever reason can't/won't truly correct the defects (and then avoid instilling new ones....IMO that's the biggie here), filling can work great. I always think of Mike Phillips' old (Meguiar's-employment era) challenge "does the car look better?"
IMO only the very lightest defects can be effectively filled. But then I've never tried something like AutoBalm either. Also wonder how well GG's Paint Glaze works. I know a guy who uses it on his (red) 'vette; it doesn't impress me all that much on that car, but then that car isn't in Autopian condition either, not by a long shot, and the Paint Glaze might be over-matched.
I'm currently using 1Z's Wax Polish Soft (topped with Collinite) on some too-far-gone sections of the '93 Audi and that's gonna work fine for me until if/when I finally have more paintwork done.
togwt
The Old Grey Whistle Test
<span style="font-family:'times new roman', serif;">3Mâ„¢ Imperialâ„¢ Hand Glaze<span style="color:#0070c0;"> - this is ideal for filling compound scratches and swirl marks if an insufficient thickness of clear coat is available. The oils create the jetting (wet-look) liquid shimmer of fresh paint, while Kaolin fills and mask minor swirls and imperfections. Its filling abilities usually dissipate in a matter of days before the surface abrasions become visible again, washing the paint film surface will accelerate this process
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
C. Charles Hahn said:
When I think of below surface defects I think of scratches, swirls, etching and things that are deep. Those can certainly be concealed, but I think what many people need to be even more aware of in regards to filling is pad marring, buffer trails & gloss restricting haze.
Accumulator
Well-known member
David Fermani said:
Good point, I've seen some incredibly bad prep-flaws "come back" after the oils from Menzerna's 106ff finally dissipated (while the overlying LSP stayed perfectly OK).
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
Exactly. I know exactly what you are referring to and remember the whole controversy about this filling issue with the Menzerna line.
C. Charles Hahn
CCH Auto Appearance, LLC
David Fermani said:
Agreed, but even pad marring/buffer trails/etc. are technically below surface defects
IME autobalm does not do much filling aside from the typical glaze-level of concealment.
Technically scratches, swirls, trails, chips, etc are all "surface" defects, as they are part of the exposed surface. Defects that are under the clear or paint and unreachable are "below surface". A scratch once a scratch becomes part of the rz of the surface (distance between peak and valley of the microscopic surface profile). Fisheyes in the base coat would be considered under surface.
Technically scratches, swirls, trails, chips, etc are all "surface" defects, as they are part of the exposed surface. Defects that are under the clear or paint and unreachable are "below surface". A scratch once a scratch becomes part of the rz of the surface (distance between peak and valley of the microscopic surface profile). Fisheyes in the base coat would be considered under surface.
Accumulator
Well-known member
IMO we could discuss/debate this to death and probably never satisfy everyone, but I differentiate between "surface" defects (e.g., orange peel, nibs), "below surface" (i.e., marring) and "under surface" (i.e., issues under the paint/clear like prep marks and fisheyes). Not saying that's the "correct" way to think of it, it's just how *I* see it.
jlb85- Interesting that you don't find the AutoBalm to do all that much filling, thanks for posting your take on it. If it's "just another glaze" I might as well stick with my 1Z WPS/3M IHG/etc.
jlb85- Interesting that you don't find the AutoBalm to do all that much filling, thanks for posting your take on it. If it's "just another glaze" I might as well stick with my 1Z WPS/3M IHG/etc.
Yeah, the autobalm did not impress me at all. Looked drab, did very little to hide, beaded wierd, applied wierd. Finally threw two cans away after holding on to them since 2007. Heck, I ordered them from Europe as there was no stateside dist back then. Really dissapointed. I also had their detox gel which worked OK, but I have not really tried it on paint per se (just rusty rotors off the vehicle).
I've been hoping the new versions now available here are more tailored towards our typical use.
I've been hoping the new versions now available here are more tailored towards our typical use.
Accumulator
Well-known member
jlb85- Yikes, when you actually *throw it away*, well...to me that speaks volumes. But of course, not everybody, uhm...accumulates mountains of [stuff] ^_^