P21S and AIO

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imported_buffer

New member
I have gotten a panel pretty much swirl free and want to apply some P21s Cleanser on it. Problem is that I applied AIO to one of the panels fist by accident. Will P21s remove the AIO. Can I put it on top or do I have to remove the AIO first?



:ca
 
I'm not familiar with P21S Cleanser, but from the name of the product it sounds very similar to what Klasse AIO already does. So basically what you're doing is redundant.



Was AIO your LSP?
 
LSP = Last Step Product



Most people who use Klasse AIO on here do not use it as an LSP to protect or beautify their car, but rather like a paint cleanser to ensure proper bonding of the LSP to the car's finish. Even though it states it's an AIO product that leaves behind some protection, it's durability won't be as good as a product dedicated solely for that purpose, like Klasse High Gloss Sealant Glaze.



For example, if you were going to do all Klasse, you might do K-AIO first, followed by Klasse High Gloss Sealant Glaze. Or if you went the P21S route, you could do the P21S Paint Cleanser followed by P21S wax.
 
What I was thinking was P21S PCL x 2, AIO x 2, SG x 3, and then S100 x 2. I was looking at this write up here. Doing some reading through I was wondering if I should replace P21S PCL with #80. Would it do a better job of hiding the remainder of the imperfections. The car I am working on has maor of swirls. The process I am using includes what you see above with #4 as the first step and #9 as the second. I have only gotten through the first two steps on the hood but it looks good. I couldn't get all of the swirls out but I would say 97% are gone.

One last question.... Should I expect to get the hood back to perfection (swirls, maring, or light scratches) with a PC or is this too much of a hope. I thought I could get everything out but it seems that there are just a small few scratches that aren't coming out. The hood looks good in natural light but a certain angles you can see the handful of scratches left behind. Do I need a rotary for these or can P21S or #80 get rid of the scratches?



Thanks

:ca
 
What I was thinking was P21S PCL x 2, AIO x 2



~ Again, these 2 products' main function is very similar: they're good cleaners. Also keep in mind, these are not products that layer due to the fact that when you apply the 2nd layer, it's cleaning abilities will remove the previous layer.



I was wondering if I should replace P21S PCL with #80. Would it do a better job of hiding the remainder of the imperfections. The car I am working on has maor of swirls.



~ If you need to remove swirls, you need some kind of polish or compound to do that. #80 is a polish that will be able to take care of some swirls. Because it's an abrasive, it will actually remove some of your swirls. If you're looking for a product that fills in the swirls, then you want some kind of glaze. Because the swirls are not actually removed, once the glaze wears off you will begin to see swirls again. A glaze can also hinder the ability of your LSP to bond properly to your paint (this is why K-AIO is recommended before SG, to insure the cleanest surface possible for the sealant/wax to bond properly).



Should I expect to get the hood back to perfection (swirls, maring, or light scratches) with a PC or is this too much of a hope.



~ That varies on the hardness of your paint/clearcoat. I personally would not expect perfection from a PC. There are some scratches that even though it doesn't go down to the primer, they're so deep that you're better off living with that scratch on your car instead of risking the chance of taking too much clearcoat off in pursuit of removing that scratch.



Just because you see people post pictures on here of an almost perfect finish doesn't mean that's always the case. Pictures can be very deceiving. Especially if this car you're working on is a daily driver, it'll get scratched and swirled from every day use and weekly washes/drying. I'm not saying perfection isn't possible, but just don't go crazy thinking it has to look 100% perfect.
 
"Again, these 2 products' main function is very similar: they're good cleaners. Also keep in mind, these are not products that layer due to the fact that when you apply the 2nd layer, it's cleaning abilities will remove the previous layer."



That isn't the case from what I read here from David Byoon who writes....

"Now it's time to glaze your paint to bring out its full gloss potential. For this I recommend a fine hand polish. I typically use a product like Sonus Paintwork Cleanser or P21S Paintwork Cleansing Lotion. If your paintwork is already in perfect condition, you can skip this step.".

From what I read above Paintwork Cleansing Lotion is a glaze or has the properties of a glaze. His article is pretty much the process I will be following plus some initial steps like #4 and #9 for swirls.



:ca
 
Buffer - why are you using one post as your reference point? I think just about everyone else here will agree that the cleansers do similar jobs and their job is to clean the paint, not act as a glaze.



Sounds to me that someone else made an erroneous post.
 
As an avid user of PCL/SEPC and AIO, definitely pick one to go with.



PCL/SEPC is a mild cleaner (not as strong as AIO) with nice glazing/filling abilities...It is an "oily" product so most sealants will not bond properly.



AIO is a stronger cleaner (compared to PCL) and leaves a decent layer of sealant protection which is fairly compatible with any LSP out there (at least in my experience).



I think your initial plan of PCLx2 followed by AIOx2 will not work as you intend --> the glazing/filling properties of PCL would be removed by AIO. I would either do one of these:



1) PCLx1 followed by P21S (as many layers as you want)

2) AIO followed by SG (as many layers as you want) - you can then add P21S if you like



I hope this helps...personally, I really like the wetness of provided by PCL/P21S combo - does not last as long as AIO/SG though
 
P21S Cleansing Lotion is a cleaner AND glaze. It will both clean and fill. If you follow with AIO it will remove the glaze that has helped fill some swirls. I'd leave AIO out if you intend to use any glaze for its filling properties.



BTW, #80 is a polish AND glaze. Similar to above but with much correcting ability. It leaves a great look and has good filling properties. If you go down this route, you won't need P21S CL or AIO, unless you don't want to hide some swirls.



Also, keep in mind that if you wish to use SG you need AIO as a base. Both AIO and SG accentuate swirls. They have no filling/masking properties.



Basically, you have to cherry-pick the appropriate compatible products from you selection list above. The only way you can have it all is if your paint is swirl-free and you dont need filling properties from your base products.



Hope this helps.
 
On a different note - I also use #80 as well...It is more of a stronger "finishing" polish (compared to FPII or SSR1) and will mechanically remove minor swirls. It also has very, very minor filling properties. I would step up to #83 (or stronger abrasive polish of your choice) if you plan on removing anything major - I am partial to Menzerna myself :)



I like to evaluate the total condition of the car and past history before I decide what to do in terms of swirl removal. *Generally* if the clear coat is in good condition then I prefer to mechanically remove swirls. However, if the clear coat is thin (due to extensive previous polishing), I can only glaze/fill swirls. The swirls will come back, but better that than CC failure.
 
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