Thomas Dekany
New member
JoeyV said:
JoeyV, lots of miss info in your post. 2.0 was also a permanent protection product.
OPTI-NEWS: Opti-Coat 2.0 is no longer available to the public. OCP is now the only Opti-Coat.
- Thread starter Jean-Claude
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JoeyV, lots of miss info in your post. 2.0 was also a permanent protection product.
If that's so, then why would other installers, and distributors have the same findings as me? (my findings were that the 2.0 would only last 2 years, give or take depending on maintenance) I tested it on my personal car, and with sparse* yet proper maintenance, I personally saw it last just short of 2 years.
*Sparse = whenever I got a chance to wash the car, so it wasn't regular, but at least once or twice a month.
*Sparse = whenever I got a chance to wash the car, so it wasn't regular, but at least once or twice a month.
Thomas Dekany
New member
JoeyV said:
Your previous post -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">Just to clarify things, OC2.0 was NEVER claimed to last 5+ years.
</blockquote>
Is different from:
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">If that's so, then why would other installers, and distributors have the same findings as me? (my findings were that the 2.0 would only last 2 years, give or take depending on maintenance)
</blockquote>
Now my question is this: how does OC 2.0 lasts for other detailers?
I am not going to make any claims, but we both know that applying a coating/proper prep is very different from using a wax/sealant. Was there enough product applied, did 2.0 sit long enough on the paint before it was wiped off? Was the prep done properly to make sure there was no oily residue left? That is all the installer not the product.
Concours.John
Auto Detail & Restoration
I don't understand the debate about 2.0. It's mute at this point and no longer availible. I have installed on several vehicles prior to OCP.
The product has changed with installer agreements and requirements. It is why I myself have chosen to no longer install either one. Not waiting for an email.
I have always operated and treated people under three principals 1-quality work 2 -integrity no matter what goes wrong 3 -then money.
I made commitments on prices that are not feasible now. Vs taking a hit for OCP I will take a hit on prep and offer Finest.
Any clients currently with OCP who have an issue will be upgraded to Finest at my expense.
Too many great installers have been set to the side because they had valid concerns.
I'm hanging up my stick with this dead horse. My only concern is after going through laundry my trash can is full of marketing materials...
[attachment=10070:ImageUploadedByTapatalk1410997138.473934.jpg]
The product has changed with installer agreements and requirements. It is why I myself have chosen to no longer install either one. Not waiting for an email.
I have always operated and treated people under three principals 1-quality work 2 -integrity no matter what goes wrong 3 -then money.
I made commitments on prices that are not feasible now. Vs taking a hit for OCP I will take a hit on prep and offer Finest.
Any clients currently with OCP who have an issue will be upgraded to Finest at my expense.
Too many great installers have been set to the side because they had valid concerns.
I'm hanging up my stick with this dead horse. My only concern is after going through laundry my trash can is full of marketing materials...
[attachment=10070:ImageUploadedByTapatalk1410997138.473934.jpg]
Attachments
RaskyR1
Rasky's Auto Detailing
Well said, John! Nice seeing others who value integrity over money!
lobster poutine
New member
i for one cant get enough of this thread! just when i think its over, there is another great remark! i love it. thanks!
rasky, im with you brother.
rasky, im with you brother.
House of Wax
Active member
It really has been an interesting back and forth
safetyman2010
New member
I've tried to stay out of this to this point but damn this is absolutely ridiculous. I have seen people posting that they charge up to $1000 (IIRC) for basic prep and OCP and the same people screaming bloody murder now that OCP is only available as a warranty pack. If you aren't making an absolute fortune at those prices then that's on the installer, not Optimum. Seriously, I'm honestly in disbelief of the stuff that's being said on Facebook and the forums regarding this. Does the price increase suck if you based your entire OCP pricing around buying the bulk tubes? Sure. However, given that the product now comes with a warranty and promises of additional marketing and support from Optimum AND removal of all installers that were either 1. violating MAP or 2. barely selling anything this is a win/win for anyone actually installing. Hell I ordered 10 warranty packs and 2 weeks later we've already installed 7 of them. I'm also curious as to how guys are screaming about not wanting the warranty but have now switched to CQF which.....comes with warranty. WTF? The only people that were going to get negatively affected by the changes were the guys barely installing and they can still buy/instal gloss coat for cheap. This is all much ado about nothing and extremely unbusinesslike. We install Finest AND OCP and they are both awesome products and have their own specific merits. To deprive yourself of the ability to install both when there is a HUGE market for both is just silly.
Concours.John
Auto Detail & Restoration
ShineShop said:
Very simple to me. When your talking around 8 to 10 jobs per client. Cost increase is much bigger. Non could give two craps about warranty as they expect things to happen over the course of time with washing. That is from the consumer mouth.
RaskyR1
Rasky's Auto Detailing
ShineShop said:
Scott, it's purely the ethics of it for me and I WILL deprive myself of any product when I feel it's morally wrong. In what world a 600% price increase in just two years considered acceptable??? There are way to many solid coatings available to continue to put up with this and I'm surprised more people haven't dropped them over it. So what happens if when this time comes around next year and they want to make some more money? Are you going to sit back and sing the same tune? At some point people have to grow a sack and speak up! And we wonder why the world is the way it is...
The current terms of the warranty are a joke, as are the ones for Finest, and only a few of the jobs I've done have even cared to have me fill out the paper work. When I see a warranty that actually covers something without all kinds of ridiculous restrictions and disclaimers, then I'll consider offering it.
Integrity over money!
builthatch
New member
RaskyR1 said:
Chad, i know you are upset about the price increase. i've seen the 600% number quite a bit.
do you feel at all that Opti-Coat Pro has been SEVERELY underpriced in the past?
safetyman2010
New member
RaskyR1 said:
OCP didn't increase in price. This has been discussed ad nauseum. The price went up to include the cost for the warranty and pay for increased marketing & support for PRO installers. Add to that the fact that Dr. G listened to the installer network and increased the amount of PRO in warranty packs to 15cc and that further softens the blow. Maybe it's because I know installers in Australia or that I attended the OCP installer session at SEMA last year that I assumed that Optimum would be bringing the PRO product in line with what it costs and what was included outside of North America. If anything, OCP was being undersold with respect to price compared to what everyone else was paying for years. I fully recognize the changes are a bitter pill to swallow for some but overall it's going to make the network of installers stronger and more profitable in the long term. If Optimum jacks the price again after this correction then I'll be right there with you Chad but I doubt that's going to happen anytime soon. I've got a lot of respect for your talent Chad but I think you're making a mistake on this issue. I'm getting more and more calls, e-mails and messages every week for OCP and selling it like hotcakes. Even after the price increase this product adds to your exclusivity as a detailer offering it (as does offering CQF) and brings customers to you and more importantly puts $$$ in your pocket.
safetyman2010
New member
CONCOURS.JOHN said:
I get what you're saying John. Warranty isn't a major selling feature for me. I sell the product on it's merits and then add on "oh and it also comes with a product warranty" after I've already sold the customer on the product.
C. Charles Hahn
CCH Auto Appearance, LLC
If we're going to have a debate about the merits of OPT's direction for its product portfolio and professional coatings program, lets at least look at all of the angles instead of just dwelling on a single point of contention...
I for one honestly don't care as much about the increase in product cost (by adding the cost of the warranty, it DOES increase product cost over the bulk, no matter how else you spin it) as much as I care about the way Optimum handles its installer network. At the very least I think the installers were owed a full-disclosure "heads up" about what was coming far enough in advance to prepare for it; not just with our internal processes and cost structuring, but also for any customers already in the pipeline set up for jobs to be completed. It's bad business, IMO, to drop a sudden change in a situation like this. Making immediate changes to a general consumer product is one thing, but a pro-only product that requires its purchasers/users to validate their credentials to even qualify for it is quite another.
I grew up around a family business which largely served as a manufacturer's representative selling and distributing product for a few different companies (and it catered largely to the automotive and manufacturing industries). The standard practice was always for the manufacturers to give a few weeks' notice when model or pricing changes were coming through the pipeline so preparations could be made. They realized that their representatives (us) had businesses to run too and could not afford to constantly eat the cost difference each time an interim period was encountered, or a model was discontinued, etc.
Optimum on the other hand has demonstrated a pattern of making abrupt adjustments to either pricing, program structure, or both. Quite frankly it has left me on edge wondering which shoe is going to drop next; and it affects my ability to fully trust a company I effectively represent(ed) by stocking and installing their product(s) and perpetuating whatever at-large marketing they decide to do.
On top of that, I am one of those guys that Scotty singles out as being a problem because I "hardly sell anything" of Opti-Coat compared to the volume Optimum wants installers to be selling (which apparently means I can't possibly be providing high quality or installing it properly when I do work with it). Frankly I just haven't seen that much of a call for the product here in my area -- 80% or more of the OCP customers I have had traveled a minimum of 45 minutes to get here because I am the northern-most installer in the State of Michigan. I've even had folks as far away as Cadillac and Traverse City come to me for it. However, now that there are stringent minimums in place I will no longer qualify to be an installer even if I wanted to be, making it even more inconvenient for those looking to have this specific coating applied to their vehicles.
Given that even those who are staunchly supportive of Optimum's decisions admit openly that the warranty isn't a real selling point for them, the only logical conclusion one can reasonably come to is that Optimum's eventual intent is to have OCP sold through dealerships, either directly or through a third party installer. Face it, the majority of OCP's brand image has been built on the backs of installers who take the time to do extensive prep work before application, and that is what general consumers currently see and associate with the service. Once high volume operations start cranking out dealer cars with it, it's a near guarantee that corners are going to be getting cut, and average service quality will start to decline. That business model and the image it eventually projects (e.g, "Oh, he's using that same Xzillon crap the dealer slaps on cars,") simply isn't a good fit for some, hence the reluctance to continue being associated with it regardless of the short-term profit potential. Sure, the product will still continue to be good and have its merits, but the brand image will decline since a good number of consumers see something at this price point as an all-encompassing service, not just an LSP.
At the end of the day, had communication with the installer network been handled more effectively all along, much of the complaints regarding these other factors (cost increase included) would likely have been mitigated.
I for one honestly don't care as much about the increase in product cost (by adding the cost of the warranty, it DOES increase product cost over the bulk, no matter how else you spin it) as much as I care about the way Optimum handles its installer network. At the very least I think the installers were owed a full-disclosure "heads up" about what was coming far enough in advance to prepare for it; not just with our internal processes and cost structuring, but also for any customers already in the pipeline set up for jobs to be completed. It's bad business, IMO, to drop a sudden change in a situation like this. Making immediate changes to a general consumer product is one thing, but a pro-only product that requires its purchasers/users to validate their credentials to even qualify for it is quite another.
I grew up around a family business which largely served as a manufacturer's representative selling and distributing product for a few different companies (and it catered largely to the automotive and manufacturing industries). The standard practice was always for the manufacturers to give a few weeks' notice when model or pricing changes were coming through the pipeline so preparations could be made. They realized that their representatives (us) had businesses to run too and could not afford to constantly eat the cost difference each time an interim period was encountered, or a model was discontinued, etc.
Optimum on the other hand has demonstrated a pattern of making abrupt adjustments to either pricing, program structure, or both. Quite frankly it has left me on edge wondering which shoe is going to drop next; and it affects my ability to fully trust a company I effectively represent(ed) by stocking and installing their product(s) and perpetuating whatever at-large marketing they decide to do.
On top of that, I am one of those guys that Scotty singles out as being a problem because I "hardly sell anything" of Opti-Coat compared to the volume Optimum wants installers to be selling (which apparently means I can't possibly be providing high quality or installing it properly when I do work with it). Frankly I just haven't seen that much of a call for the product here in my area -- 80% or more of the OCP customers I have had traveled a minimum of 45 minutes to get here because I am the northern-most installer in the State of Michigan. I've even had folks as far away as Cadillac and Traverse City come to me for it. However, now that there are stringent minimums in place I will no longer qualify to be an installer even if I wanted to be, making it even more inconvenient for those looking to have this specific coating applied to their vehicles.
Given that even those who are staunchly supportive of Optimum's decisions admit openly that the warranty isn't a real selling point for them, the only logical conclusion one can reasonably come to is that Optimum's eventual intent is to have OCP sold through dealerships, either directly or through a third party installer. Face it, the majority of OCP's brand image has been built on the backs of installers who take the time to do extensive prep work before application, and that is what general consumers currently see and associate with the service. Once high volume operations start cranking out dealer cars with it, it's a near guarantee that corners are going to be getting cut, and average service quality will start to decline. That business model and the image it eventually projects (e.g, "Oh, he's using that same Xzillon crap the dealer slaps on cars,") simply isn't a good fit for some, hence the reluctance to continue being associated with it regardless of the short-term profit potential. Sure, the product will still continue to be good and have its merits, but the brand image will decline since a good number of consumers see something at this price point as an all-encompassing service, not just an LSP.
At the end of the day, had communication with the installer network been handled more effectively all along, much of the complaints regarding these other factors (cost increase included) would likely have been mitigated.
safetyman2010
New member
C. Charles Hahn said:
I never singled anyone out as a "problem" Charles, please don't put words in my mouth. I'll tell you that NOBODY was installing ANY coatings in my market and I had to basically create the market here from scratch. I never thought I would be able to sell as many coatings as I am selling now but the critical difference is I'm getting out of it what I put into it. I set up landing pages for my website, active promote coatings on forums and pages like craigslist/kijiji and have worked tirelessly at educating our customers about coatings. In addition, like yourself Charlie I'm getting people coming from long distances just to get OCP installed. Honestly the monthly minimum is a joke if you are pushing the product. You're a talented detailer and there is no reason you couldn't easily meet the minimums if you want to - you just have to have the confidence to make it happen. With respect to dealerships, Optimum likely does want that as part of their distribution network but as someone that has worked intimately with dealerships every day for 21 years I can assure you that regardless of how much better the product is than their current offerings like Xzillon the dealers aren't interested. Dealers care about one thing - profit. I have 2 friends that their families own large dealerships in my city and have tried to explain what the difference is between OCP/Finest and why they should be offering it through me and it always comes back to profit. They make a killing off Xzillon because it requires ZERO talent or skill to install and is fast and cheap. So they sell it for a relatively high price and their cost is nothing. Do you really see dealers having a talented detailer that is going to take the time to properly inspect/correct/coat cars? They can't even do a good job with easy products like Xzillon. You have nothing to fear there. As I have already stated I recognize that a lot of guys feel slighted over the changes and I can certainly understand that especially when someone like Chad has put a lot of hard work and time into helping build the brand but I think people are acting emotionally before seeing how this all plays out. OCP & Finest are both killer products and having both in your arsenal to attract clients and promote your business adds a lot. I know how much my business has grown the last 2 years and I've only really scratched the surface because I wasn't putting the effort into promoting coatings prominently until last fall.
G
gpshumway
Guest
Alfisti said:
I was told the shelf life was in excess of one year if properly sealed. The wheels I did with a partially used syringe ~9 months after initially opening it seem to be holding up fine.
Junebug
JAFO
Ya'll know General Hospital is getting pretty good now, can't wait to see what Sonny does next when he finds out..........
Ok - I don't really watch GH unless there's some young, half nakid lady walking around in the latest Victoria's Secret outfit, and then the wife gives me that "look" , but on a serious note - I think this story line has run it's course, can we all agree to disagree and leave it?
Damn that Lucy Coe still looks good after all these years..
Ok - I don't really watch GH unless there's some young, half nakid lady walking around in the latest Victoria's Secret outfit, and then the wife gives me that "look" , but on a serious note - I think this story line has run it's course, can we all agree to disagree and leave it?
Damn that Lucy Coe still looks good after all these years..
Concours.John
Auto Detail & Restoration
My position on changes is a little different. I quote many people at the beginning of the driving season. When fall hits is when they opted to have their install. OCP was requested. Since none qualify for warranty the changes do make a difference.
To honor my price and meet MAP/cost of install makes a drastic cut in my labor rate.
Future work yeah could roll but can't absorb non stop losses. It's just the nature of cars I work with.
To honor my price and meet MAP/cost of install makes a drastic cut in my labor rate.
Future work yeah could roll but can't absorb non stop losses. It's just the nature of cars I work with.
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