ONR on these? (pics)

GregCavi said:
I'm with ebpcivicsi on this one. I to often run into vehicles that have the very large clumps of dirt on the panels, and if I have to break out the pressure washer to remove the dirt to safely use an ONR or QEW, then I will just wash the vehicle using a conventional wash. Can a car be safely washed after being hit with the pressure washer, sure, but If just using ONR or QEW on a vehilce with clumps of dirt, or in Minnesota, sand, some light marring may occur.



Greg
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ill get into this further . . . if you all dont mind . .



i also agree with your point onf the clumpy mud thing . . .



i would not even think to clean a car that filthy without pressure washing first, but after that, i would ONR it, rather than getting out my 2 buckets with grit guards, filling with warm water, mixing my suds, or using a foam gun . . .



all that time . . . besides, pressure washing, even with a small electric unit, will really break down caked on grime, usually to the point where just a dirty film is left, and even that is usually weakened by the pressure washers blast, allowing for onr to remoave it with ease.



just some thoughts . . . i really cant talk to much here - i live and detail in the bay area . . . not that much garbage in our air, on our roads or falling out of the sky . . .
 
This is a RINSE-less wash product. Think about what that means.



When doing a regular wash you rinse twice. First you rinse the car to remove any of the big dirt particles before you take a wash mitt to the panel. Then the soap provides lubricity while your wash mitt agitates the stuck-on particles. The final rinse removes those particles and the soap residue and leaves a clean car. That's how it works.



With ONR, you skip the initial rinse, so any loose dirt particles are there from the start. Then you agitate with a wash mitt or towel (same as conventional wash) and the ONR solution "encapsulates" the dirt so it does not touch the finish while wiping and drying.



Think about it now, an ounce of ONR can only "encapsulate" so much dirt. At some point the amount of dirt on the car may outweigh the cleaning power of ONR. That is why a pre-rinse at the coin op or a run through the touchless almost gaurantees successful results.



Think about it further. The "encapsulation" allows you to wipe and dry without a final rinse. BUT, it does not replace the initial rinse that you would do during a normal wash. If you were doing a conventional wash you would not touch a dry panel without rinsing it first. So what the hell makes anyone think its ok with ONR.



If I was going to attack a really dirty car (like the ones in the original post here) and I absolutely HAD to use ONR I would avoid wiping. I would use as many towels as necessary to wash one spot at a time. That is why Microfiber towels are suggested when using ONR. Because they can loosen the dirt and then absorb the "encapsulated" particles into their thousands of tiny fibers.



Scott - I'm not doubting you. It's clear that you have a succesfull business and produce great results with ONR. However, I would like to see before and after pics of a panel washed with ONR under some halogen lights. I woudl expect to see some marring if the car is particularly dirty. Nothing catastrophic, and maybe not anything more than a regular wash would cause, but I believe it has to be there. Please prove me wrong. And if you can, please tell us your technique. Do you wipe when the car is excessively dirty, or do you "dab" the dirt off turning the towel as many times as necessary to get that spot clean? Mitts or MF towels? What ratio do you mix the ONR? Do you change the ratio if the car is excessively dirty? Two buckets or one? Grit guard? How many times do you rinse the mitt or towel per panel?



Bottom line, ONR can either be a real time and effort saver, or it can severely ruin a perfectly good car finish. There really isn't an in-between. So much depends on tools, technique, patience, and practice. That is what this forum is meant to be for. It's not to have an argument where half the people say "ONR sucks" and the other half say "no it doesn't, you're doing it wrong"
 
^^^yea i said it sucks also(not ONR personally,but rinseless washing in general)but im mostly sure its my technique.seeing scotts results on a previous post shows that it yealds good results if you know what your doing.me,im not very patient and maybe its a mind trick but seeing no "suds" makes me crazy and very unsure.im still gonna practice w/ONR but only when my cars very lightly soiled and maybe over time ill get more confident with the stuff.altho i agree that a short video of washing 3 or 4 panels would be VERY helpfull.
 
socommatthews said:
i agree that a short video of washing 3 or 4 panels would be VERY helpfull.
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I can do this for you! I just did an ONR tonight and will let it build up over the next 5 days, and then again after the next heavy snowfall we get when I get large clumps of snow and salt all over my car. Im giving my mom her S2 for xmas so the vids will come shortly after that. I will post the video links directly in this thread. Look for them on the 26th. Thanks!
 
ebpcivicsi said:
I don't see why you feel the need to get defensive and call me out. We just differ in opoinion about the point in which a product reaches its limits. :nixweiss
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I am not calling you out, what I am saying is that ONR will clean much filthier cars than you would believe possible. I have explored the limits of both QEW and ONR and they far surpassed my expectations. Yes, you do have to pre-rinse a mud caked car and rinseless washes may leave some smearing on paint completely devoid of wax (but ONR does the best in that regard), but just normal filth from driving in the rain is not a problem. It isn't just for well maintained cars and it isn't fair to Optimum, Detailer's Pride or Protect All to suggest otherwise.



Less said:
Bottom line, ONR can either be a real time and effort saver, or it can severely ruin a perfectly good car finish. There really isn't an in-between. So much depends on tools, technique, patience, and practice. That is what this forum is meant to be for. It's not to have an argument where half the people say "ONR sucks" and the other half say "no it doesn't, you're doing it wrong"
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A few points, if I may.



1. I have never ruined a perfectly good finish using either QEW or ONR, even on really dirty cars, and a rough estimate would be over 9000+ of the 11,200 cars I have cleaned since I started my detailing business have been cleaned via rinseless washes. If you ruin a finish with ONR, it is going to be operator error, not the product.



2. Yes, good technique and quality towels and pads or mitts will make rinseless washes work their best, just like with conventional washing.



3. When you wash a panel with a quality mitt or pad, you can see the dirt practically melt away and I don't see the advantage at all of a pre-rinse. Plus, with rinseless washing not being soapy, you can see the entire panel and are less likely to miss any areas when washing and drying.



This is a Ford F-250 I regular ONR wash. This picture was taken in March when I last polished it out.



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This was in September, waxed a couple times but not repolished. Washed only with ONR at least twice a month, many times in the full sun at his office. And yes, it gets dirty as he has a 80 mile daily commute.



2005_Ford_F250_5months_after_polish1.jpg




I'd say ONR did a pretty good job preventing marring.
 
In an attempt to lighten the mood just a bit, I'll take this opportunity to announce the arrival on my 1st bottle of ONR this evening. :wow:



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I've purchased several bottles of QEW in the past. Could ever bring myself to really use it. I'm gonna force myself to at least try the ONR a few times before making any final judgement. One thing high on the appeal chart: I can wash in the garage any time of the day or night and that's nice during the winter months when daylight hours are short.
 
Recently I did two cars for a friend. Both had not been washed for at least 6 months. This was I full detail on both, so I was not worried about marring, but I had none after each ONR wash. My mitt and two buckets were black with dirt, but the cars came out perfect. I have a gallon of ONR and have not done a regular wash for months. I love ONR and was a skeptic at first, but now I have no fears and embrace ONR.



Steve
 
Scottwax said:
I am not calling you out, what I am saying is that ONR will clean much filthier cars than you would believe possible. I have explored the limits of both QEW and ONR and they far surpassed my expectations. Yes, you do have to pre-rinse a mud caked car and rinseless washes may leave some smearing on paint completely devoid of wax (but ONR does the best in that regard), but just normal filth from driving in the rain is not a problem. It isn't just for well maintained cars and it isn't fair to Optimum, Detailer's Pride or Protect All to suggest otherwise.







A few points, if I may.



1. I have never ruined a perfectly good finish using either QEW or ONR, even on really dirty cars, and a rough estimate would be over 9000+ of the 11,200 cars I have cleaned since I started my detailing business have been cleaned via rinseless washes. If you ruin a finish with ONR, it is going to be operator error, not the product.



2. Yes, good technique and quality towels and pads or mitts will make rinseless washes work their best, just like with conventional washing.



3. When you wash a panel with a quality mitt or pad, you can see the dirt practically melt away and I don't see the advantage at all of a pre-rinse. Plus, with rinseless washing not being soapy, you can see the entire panel and are less likely to miss any areas when washing and drying.



This is a Ford F-250 I regular ONR wash. This picture was taken in March when I last polished it out.







This was in September, waxed a couple times but not repolished. Washed only with ONR at least twice a month, many times in the full sun at his office. And yes, it gets dirty as he has a 80 mile daily commute.





I'd say ONR did a pretty good job preventing marring.
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Scott, thanks for the pics and your experience with QEW and ONR. upon your posts many people such as myself that live in the snow belt would like to thank you :bow this and other posts show you do have a ton of experience with the product and realize what it can do. when I first tried ONR with salt on my truck I did get some marring. instead of calling it a result of the product I figured out * my error * was a mitt that needed to be replaced. my point is that if I did not give the product a fair chance I would be missing out on something that I use all the time now. have done some trucks that were similar to the original posters pics and will continue to do them again as I have faith in the ONR. just like anything else on the board if it works for you use it, if not use something that you prefer. it's all about choice, so choose through trial and error. I for one use your experiences from your advocation as a knowledge base when I can.
 
socommatthews said:
i hope i feel the same way one day:heelclick
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The way I look at it from a New England Winter point of view, is that ONR is not going to perform perfectly with out a prerinse to get the big particles of salt and sand off. It also make take two rinses to get the salt off. Not a big deal since my hose is frozen for 3 months in NH. I have not seen any marring on my paint. Actually no more than a regular wash. I think the pre rinse and post rinse give us a piece of mind. But ONR does not require either.



Steve
 
A man tries to reach out with the "olive branch" and what happens? :nixweiss



I have used QEW on my wifes BMW for 7 months without any polishing or major issues at all. I usually pretreat the lower sections with a spray bottle (1oz QEW to 12oz water)
 
The first car can very easily be cleaned with ONR. My Z has never been that dirty, but my wife's tC often has and I have cleaned it to a high gloss look every time with ONR. In fact, the recent spate of snow storms here in Denver has left it messier than nearly all cars in this thread. I plan to wash it with ONR and use my just-arrived PC for some swirl removal next week and will post pics.
 
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